death to all that Tractor/Pro-Scratch malarkey.
- Thread starter chico enrico
- Start date
Kanda
Diving wanker
at this juncture i could make a wry comment, but as you're a good sort I shall refrain
I've never played out with Traktor actually, only Vinyl/CD
I don't have room in my current place to have it setup. Hence moving.
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
I've never played out with Traktor actually, only Vinyl/CD
I don't have room in my current place to have it setup. Hence moving.
with respect, if you haven't space to set up all this sonic space station in your room, how on earth do you ever expect to set it up in a cramped DJ booth in a club covered with folks coats, beer bottles and with five of your mates trying to snort lines off every available surface?
anyway, im off to walk the dog now so shall just leave you with my fave DJing clip (even tho he's using CDs
) that's what it's all about.
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
i've just watched those youtube 'traktor demo' clips of grandmaster flash & richie hawtin.
the flash one is actualy really funny as it's basically a total NON advert for traktor as it just shows how it basically encumbers the fluidity of a jam. fair enough, maybe flash is fairly new to the format and technology, but all you have to do is check out any other live clips of him playing vinyl and you'l see what i mean.
Richie Hawtin i've always thought a total dick and boring as fuck as a DJ so it doesn't surprise me he's got lots of time to perfect the latest technology as he probably hasn't got any mates to hang out with.
so, my considered verdict is - unconvinced.
the flash one is actualy really funny as it's basically a total NON advert for traktor as it just shows how it basically encumbers the fluidity of a jam. fair enough, maybe flash is fairly new to the format and technology, but all you have to do is check out any other live clips of him playing vinyl and you'l see what i mean.
Richie Hawtin i've always thought a total dick and boring as fuck as a DJ so it doesn't surprise me he's got lots of time to perfect the latest technology as he probably hasn't got any mates to hang out with.
so, my considered verdict is - unconvinced.
See, this is why I love Kissy Sell Out as a DJ. Most people hate him for some obvious track selection, and for having ADD when it comes to the length of time he plays a track for... but when you actually see him it works. He seems to be having a load of fun, reacting to the crowd and generally loving the tunes.
Mixtap: http://www.nickydigital.com/index.php?/blog/comments/kissy_sell_out_2009_mix_tape/
...and anyway, I can think of plenty of brilliantly creative things you could do using something like Ableton in a DJ set. With timestretching and really comprehensive EQ and filtering you could totally overhaul and reconstruct and completely explode tracks. Mix things together that you never could with vinyl. Turn things into an acapella, take out basslines etc etc I don't listen to much dance stuff anymore, but aren't there plenty of laptop DJs who are already doing this sort of thing? At the very least, you have the luxury of being able to extend things, loop certain phrases etc according to the mood of the room.
At the opposite end of the scale, I'm happy with one Dansette and birthday dedications in between songs.
At the opposite end of the scale, I'm happy with one Dansette and birthday dedications in between songs.
I have no idea where to begin with the total wrongness of this post.I really HATE all that tractor and pro-scratch shit. in fact i have just been in email correspondance with the guy I run club nights with and we have decided to not put on any 'guest' DJs on at any of our club nights who play that wank. Not tht i've ever ome acros any quality Djs that use it anyway, but i'm sure there are some. fair enough if you're using formats like that due to logistic reasons (laptop & couple of platters being easy to transport round the world than a big box of records, plus minimal risk of being nobbled at immigration for not having a work visa. But those Djs have probably attained their status for their ability to spink vinyl in the first place. apart from that it's just fakery IMO. software that BPMs all your tracks and 'selects' the order in which you should play them? come on...that's like playing snooker with a robot arm with telescopic sights on it. plus it sounds shite. like you're playing one of those 'jive bunny' records.
your comments, please.
But let's just say that Kevin Martin uses Scratch and he is, beyond any shadow of doubt, a fucking awesome DJ.
zeedoodles
Member
19 years on two decks and a pile of records.
Vinyl will always be my prefered format.
However as a toy and something to mess about with I am really liking the look of Tracktor. Never bothered with CDJ's, can't really understand the point of serato or other usb interfaces. If your going to go go the digital road go the whole hog. If I had the time to spare and the funds to purchase, defo I would get Tracktor as a nice toy.
Just to add I have played out a couple of times recently and had DJ's who use lap tops and usb interfaces on before and after me. What a bloody effort to set everything up and plug it all in and then just to stand there looking like they are checking there E mail. When I play on decks and vinyl I create an atmospher these gimps killed the place (they thought they looked the bollocks though because they had apple lap tops) They spent more time comparing usb interfaces than selecting tunes and interacting with the crowd.
Vinyl will always be my prefered format.
However as a toy and something to mess about with I am really liking the look of Tracktor. Never bothered with CDJ's, can't really understand the point of serato or other usb interfaces. If your going to go go the digital road go the whole hog. If I had the time to spare and the funds to purchase, defo I would get Tracktor as a nice toy.
Just to add I have played out a couple of times recently and had DJ's who use lap tops and usb interfaces on before and after me. What a bloody effort to set everything up and plug it all in and then just to stand there looking like they are checking there E mail. When I play on decks and vinyl I create an atmospher these gimps killed the place (they thought they looked the bollocks though because they had apple lap tops) They spent more time comparing usb interfaces than selecting tunes and interacting with the crowd.
Cloud
Omar Commin!
Oh dear people banging on about beat matching again...
Traktor and Torq are fucking ace and my xponent is a fantastic piece of kit for any house enthusiast. I'm not very good even with digital mixing but I'm doing it as a hobby.
I've actually found out that the best mixes come from ignoring the technology and screen but I'd not bother beat matching because what is the point? Anyone can learn to do it anyway, I do make slight adjustments but there is nothing wrong in hitting the sync button to save some time. The kit is still good plus it's cheap and like somebody said before it's the tunes that count.
What i have found with online mixes is people completely copping out and using stuff like ableton to "paint" a mix. Things could be worse.
Traktor and Torq are fucking ace and my xponent is a fantastic piece of kit for any house enthusiast. I'm not very good even with digital mixing but I'm doing it as a hobby.
I've actually found out that the best mixes come from ignoring the technology and screen but I'd not bother beat matching because what is the point? Anyone can learn to do it anyway, I do make slight adjustments but there is nothing wrong in hitting the sync button to save some time. The kit is still good plus it's cheap and like somebody said before it's the tunes that count.
What i have found with online mixes is people completely copping out and using stuff like ableton to "paint" a mix. Things could be worse.
jamessedgewick
Well-Known Member
I really dont think Kevin Martin is a great example of a good dj. He might be a good selector and undoubtedly has been involved in some very interesting projects over the years but having seen him live several times recently, he does not actually mix. His sets consist of him pulling up tunes and delaying and effecting the sound then playing another tune. no actual technical skill is involved imo
Moronik
roughly humanoid
There will always be something special about seeing a DJ beat matching vinyl - it creates an atmosphere seeing someone working hard so that everyone else has fun - something laptop mixing really lacks.
However, as anyone who has witnessed Shitmat, Aaron Spectre or any of the big name breakcore guys do thier stuff, what makes the atmosphere is the performance factor. Not stuck beatmatching allows them to jump around and get on the mic and really whip the crowd up.
Plus - a lot of that music is well nigh impossible to beatmatch anyway.
and remember - if you make your own tunes or re-edits you have to use a laptop or cd decks! (unless you get your own vinyl pressed.... which can be a tad expensive...)
Theres nothing inherently wrong using Tractor etc. its just different.
My main gripe with it is that it can sound too cleanly mixed - like basically someone putting on a mixed cd. I like it to sound a bit messy and 'human'.
However, as anyone who has witnessed Shitmat, Aaron Spectre or any of the big name breakcore guys do thier stuff, what makes the atmosphere is the performance factor. Not stuck beatmatching allows them to jump around and get on the mic and really whip the crowd up.
Plus - a lot of that music is well nigh impossible to beatmatch anyway.
and remember - if you make your own tunes or re-edits you have to use a laptop or cd decks! (unless you get your own vinyl pressed.... which can be a tad expensive...)
Theres nothing inherently wrong using Tractor etc. its just different.
My main gripe with it is that it can sound too cleanly mixed - like basically someone putting on a mixed cd. I like it to sound a bit messy and 'human'.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
but surely you can play a record backwards simply by hitting the stop and winding it back with your finger on the label anyway, Detroit stylee?
and scratch?
and 'loop' a certain section using two copies of a record if you so desired?
that's kind of the sort of tricks you first learn when you take up DJing as i'm sure you did yourself.
can you see what i'm getting at if someone can go down to a shop on Charing Cross Rd, but a black box, press a coupl of buttons and it allows them to do all this automatically without ever having had to apply themselves? just seems a bit bunk to me.
What bollocks. What elitist bollocks. Like Orang says, this technology levels the playing field. Now anyone can beatmatch, loop, scratch, it will mean people with actual artistic talent will rise to the top quicker. You sound like someone in the early age of cars complaining about how these newfangled machines only need one lever to engage the clutch and don't need hand-cranking, and how their drivers aren't having to come up through the same hard grind you did.
What makes a good DJ, for me, is reading the crowd, picking tunes, then mixing/EQing/looping otherwise fucking with them in interesting ways (if we're talking electronic dance music). The technology is irrelevant. This particular technology makes it easier. It takes the grind out so you don't waste precious time taking records out of sleeves, finding the drop, matching the beat etc. and spend more time on the fader and EQs or interacting with the crowd.
editor
hiraethified
That said, there's not many things duller to watch than someone fiddling about with a laptop onstage, whether they be DJing or playing live.
Fatboy Slim gets the crowd going by holding up the records he's playing or showing off the next piece of vinyl. I guess a laptoper can hold a USB lead up or something.
Fatboy Slim gets the crowd going by holding up the records he's playing or showing off the next piece of vinyl. I guess a laptoper can hold a USB lead up or something.
editor
hiraethified
Trust me: only the spoddiest boys are impressed with anyone "interacting with CDJs and mixers" - and as a soundman, I should know.
I haven't mastered the specs grappling action yet. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.
Some of my favourite mixes are when it's fucked up somewhere just makes it feel more real to me.
I find all these seamless perfectly beatmatched mixes a little flat and seeing someone with a laptop mixing dance music just looks wrong. You don't want a geek who looks like he's playing with a modem commanding the dancefloor you want a fucking monster dude taming the wheels of steel stretching their arms about teasing you by showing you their new whitelabel licking the vinyl kicking spin backs and stuff. The "spirit" seems to get lost in the laptop translation.
Fair enuff with the Vinyl emulators I reckon it's the same thing really but the photo above
no offence, but wrong!
Kanda
Diving wanker
Fair enuff with the Vinyl emulators I reckon it's the same thing really but the photo above
That's CD emulation in the picture, it's just using CD decks to control MP3's. What's the difference to vinyl emulation?????
The laptop is just my record box. There's 2 x CDJ's and a mixer in that coffin case too.
TitanSound
Mr Beardy Drummer
For me personally, getting something like Serato or Traktor is the best and cheapest thing I can do if I ever want to be able to play out properly again. After having all my vinyl nicked by a previous housemate it would take me considerable time and money to rebuild any decent collection. Now all I have to do is buy an interface + software and I have 30 gig of tunes I can instantly take to a venue and play.
One thing is for sure though, when I eventually get a vinyl emulator, I will be doing all my mixing by hand on the vinyl and pitch control. None of this syncing shit!
One thing is for sure though, when I eventually get a vinyl emulator, I will be doing all my mixing by hand on the vinyl and pitch control. None of this syncing shit!
Where's the showmanship though?
Is that you Kanda in the photo?
To me that photo looks like a rather tired exec checking their emails, if the headphones weren't on I wouldn't have guessed.
When I think of a DJ I see this kind of shennanigans
Kanda
Diving wanker
Moronik
roughly humanoid
Exactly!!
Another thing - being a vinyl DJ takes commitment.
The kit is expensive and so are the records. It also takes a long long time to build up a decent collection, tracking down old records, going through second hand vinyl stores, as well as checking out the latest releases. Also: vinyl breaks and get fucked up... and need replacing... as does needles etc.
On top of that is actually learning the skills needed to be a DJ.... some people say anyone can beatmatch - but they can't. Otherwise everyone would.
Being able to do something isnt the same as being able to do something well and consistently well.
And learning to mix into different styles also takes a lot of practice and skill...
When you see a good DJ totally rocking it, technically good, with excellent tune selection and performing for the crowd you are seeing someone who is the result of a lot of time, effort, experience and money.
i play out and quite often meet a lot of younger kids who play off ableton and tractor and they are amazed at what i can do with vinyl, but really it is nothing special..... it just seems more engaging is all.
And i think because the level of commitment is lower (buy your kit, download some tunes and voila! ready to rock!) the standard has dropped right down.
Making something easy to do does not make talent rise to the top at all. It just means that talent gets swamped by mediocrity.
I actually use serato now, simply because i can play tracks which are not available on vinyl, but to be honest I enjoy using vinyl more because it sounds better, looks better and gets a better response from people
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
fuck watching the dj.
you watch you mates when you're dancing
djs aren't rockstars
you watch you mates when you're dancing
djs aren't rockstars
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
^^^This^^^
Someone, ages ago, posted up a great blog entry about Tiesto-style gigs where everyone faces forward and worships the DJ the same way they attend a music gig, and how generally shite it was. True words.
And Norman Cook's a cunt
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
if norman cook was to do that all that fist-pumping and record-cover-holding up in a pub or a club, you'd think he was a prick. hopefully, you'd think he was a prick anyway.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Sorry, but I have to say this again. Elitist fucking bollocks! It's the line trotted out whenever technology exposes previously arcane arts to the masses. The old guardians throw up their arms in shock at the plebs stumbling around their pristine tower of knowledge, knocking stuff over and not giving a shit.
TOUGH. This happens to every field of endeavour. Nothing stays still. You guys who've spent years honing your skills: Start transferring those skills to the new medium, cos you can bet there's a bunch of kids out there with pirate copies of this software, practicing all night in their bedrooms, getting ready to kick your arses with all sorts of sounds and techniques that junky old records could never do.
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