death to all that Tractor/Pro-Scratch malarkey.

[Orang Utan]

who needs djs anymore anyway?
i've had more fun drunkenly taking turns playing tunes in spotify/youtube recently than listening to perfectly mixed boreathons in clubs

 

[_pH_]

does it stop you being rickrolled?





kanda?

 

[teuchter]

haven't ever tried CDJs but it is something I do realy want to learn, for ease of use, plus a lot of tracks appear not to be even releasded on vinyl these days thus the only option is to download them as MP3s to play out.

It seems illogical to be OK with using CDJs but not with doing it totally digitally.

All that's really different is the storage medium. You aren't actually physically interacting with the CDs.

 

[chico enrico]

You don't seem to like technology advances Chico

hmmmm...maybe i'm bit behind the times with some of that stuff but i'm sure i i NEEDED to aquiant myself with it i would.

Actully, i think perhaps the best analogy i can think of in this context is while I can totaly 100% apopreciate what keith le blanc does on his electronic/trigger drum set up he is A) still one of the world's best drummers and probably would stil be on a set of pots and pans and B) for all that - and having played on electronic/sample triggering kits - I still prefer an acoustic drum kit and certainly find playing one more fun.

conversely, I think digital cameras are a wonderful advance and couldn't imagine going back to an SLR or other prior formats.

But, with this new DJ orftware, to take that as a comparison, it's like you don't even have to set up your shot and look through the LED or viewfinder to be able to take your pic. if you see what i mean.

 

[Kanda]

You aren't actually physically interacting with the CDs.

You do interact with CD's and Vinyl with Trakto Scratch Pro, they're timecoded.

You don't HAVE to though.

 

[Kanda]

But, with this new DJ orftware, to take that as a comparison, it's like you don't even have to set up your shot and look through the LED or viewfinder to be able to take your pic. if you see what i mean.

I get what you mean. But that's not really the extent of the software. There's tons of other things you can do without hitting the autobeatmatch button.

If I pull back on the vinyl or CD that's timecoded, the record goes backwards too, I can scratch or I could loop certain sections.. loads of things.

Or.. as you rightly complain about.. I could sit there and do my tax return and hit auto beatmatch and not bother with the timecoded CD's or Vinyl.

 

[Orang Utan]

hmmmm...maybe i'm bit behind the times with some of that stuff but i'm sure i i NEEDED to aquiant myself with it i would.

Actully, i think perhaps the best analogy i can think of in this context is while I can totaly 100% apopreciate what keith le blanc does on his electronic/trigger drum set up he is A) still one of the world's best drummers and probably would stil be on a set of pots and pans and B) for all that - and having played on electronic/sample triggering kits - I still prefer an acoustic drum kit and certainly find playing one more fun.

conversely, I think digital cameras are a wonderful advance and couldn't imagine going back to an SLR or other prior formats.

But, with this new DJ orftware, to take that as a comparison, it's like you don't even have to set up your shot and look through the LED or viewfinder to be able to take your pic. if you see what i mean.

again, this is a good thing - it makes people up their game - if anyone can set up a shot, perform a mix, make a beat or a crazy noise, talented people will have to rise to the challenge and raise their game

 

[teuchter]

who needs djs anymore anyway?

yeah, there is that too.

In my opinion, the job of the DJ is:

1. Play good tunes
2. Put some thought into the order in which they are played
3. Respond to your audience
4. Do the technical stuff

If a computer can do most of no. 4, then perhaps we will see an increase in the number of DJs who concentrate on nos. 1, 2 and 3, which can only be a good thing.

 

[chico enrico]

who needs djs anymore anyway?
i've had more fun drunkenly taking turns playing tunes in spotify/youtube recently than listening to perfectly mixed boreathons in clubs

funnily enough, i kind of think this i entirely logical and would probably agree.

oh, and incidentally, as i've just realised i hadn't stated it before. I don't really give a flying fuck about omeone's mixing proficiency. My favourite DJ in all of London can't mix and hasn't ever tried to. he just plays amazing tunes.

to me there is infinitely more to be admired in that than some traktor-monkey who is seamlessly mixing one track untop of another every 20 seconds.

 

[teuchter]

You do interact with CD's and Vinyl with Trakto Scratch Pro, they're timecoded.

You don't HAVE to though.

Yeah I know, I meant you're not actually physically interacting with the speed the disk is rotating, like you do with vinyl. You are controlling the speed of playback digitally, even if the interface might be designed to simulate some aspects of an old-fashioned record deck. So it doesn't matter whether the data is coming from a CD or a hard drive or whatever.

 

[Kanda]

Yeah I know, I meant you're not actually physically interacting with the speed the disk is rotating, like you do with vinyl. You are controlling the speed of playback digitally, even if the interface might be designed to simulate some aspects of an old-fashioned record deck. So it doesn't matter whether the data is coming from a CD or a hard drive or whatever.

Not nitpicking.. but you are if you used timecoded vinyl (and some of the CD decks that DO spin)

 

[Orang Utan]

funnily enough, i kind of think this i entirely logical and would probably agree.

oh, and incidentally, as i've just realised i hadn't stated it before. I don't really give a flying fuck about omeone's mixing proficiency. My favourite DJ in all of London can't mix and hasn't ever tried to. he just plays amazing tunes.

to me there is infinitely more to be admired in that than some traktor-monkey who is seamlessly mixing one track untop of another every 20 seconds.

indeed - i dunno why everyone loves le greve generale so much

 

[teuchter]

Not nitpicking.. but you are if you used timecoded vinyl

What's that then? Can you connect a vinyl deck up to it? Does it control the speed of the deck, or does it use some kind of buffer or something?

 

[chico enrico]

If I pull back on the vinyl or CD that's timecoded, the record goes backwards too, I can scratch or I could loop certain sections.. loads of things.

but surely you can play a record backwards simply by hitting the stop and winding it back with your finger on the label anyway, Detroit stylee?

and scratch?

and 'loop' a certain section using two copies of a record if you so desired?

that's kind of the sort of tricks you first learn when you take up DJing as i'm sure you did yourself.

can you see what i'm getting at if someone can go down to a shop on Charing Cross Rd, but a black box, press a coupl of buttons and it allows them to do all this automatically without ever having had to apply themselves? just seems a bit bunk to me.

 

[Kanda]

What's that then? Can you connect a vinyl deck up to it? Does it control the speed of the deck, or does it use some kind of buffer or something?

My setup has timecoded vinyl and CD. You put it on or in the deck, you click a MP3 to assign it to the deck and you literally manipulate the deck and the output (MP3) does exactly what you are doing with the vinyl/CD.

First Youtube vid I could find:

 

[Orang Utan]

can you see what i'm getting at if someone can go down to a shop on Charing Cross Rd, but a black box, press a coupl of buttons and it allows them to do all this automatically without ever having had to apply themselves? just seems a bit bunk to me.

why?

 

[editor]

who needs djs anymore anyway?
i've had more fun drunkenly taking turns playing tunes in spotify/youtube recently than listening to perfectly mixed boreathons in clubs

Depends on the club and the music of course, but a lively DJing having a heap of fun on the decks while interacting with the audience and having a laugh can really make a massive difference to the evening.

I never quite got Fatboy Slim as a DJ until I saw him DJing. The sheer love he had for the vinyl he was playing was irresistible and he created a real fun atmosphere in the room (well, tent actually).

I'd rather a ropey old DJing having a fucking hoot on shit decks than some sour faced 'pro' attaining technical perfection via a shedload of expensive equipment (not that the two things are mutually exclusive, of course).

 

[editor]

My setup has timecoded vinyl and CD. You put it on or in the deck, you click a MP3 to assign it to the deck and you literally manipulate the deck and the output (MP3) does exactly what you are doing with the vinyl/CD.

How much does that kind of set up cost?

 

[teuchter]

My setup has timecoded vinyl and CD. You put it on or in the deck, you click a MP3 to assign it to the deck and you literally manipulate the deck and the output (MP3) does exactly what you are doing with the vinyl/CD.

First Youtube vid I could find:

But the vinyl you are physically manipulating - does that actually have the track on it or is it just a kind of dummy while the actual track is being played from an MP3 file, in response to what you're doing to the deck?

 

[Kanda]

But the vinyl you are physically manipulating - does that actually have the track on it or is it just a kind of dummy while the actual track is being played from an MP3 file, in response to what you're doing to the deck?

It's a timecoded signal so in effect, the MP3 is mapped to whatever you do on that bit of vinyl. You only really have to carry 2 bits of vinyl or 2 CD's with you as you map any track to any deck.

Watch the video.

 

[Kanda]

How much does that kind of set up cost?

The Hardware/Software is £550. Add the costs of decks/mixer.

My mixer also can midi trigger almost any feature in the software. I only use it to trigger track assignments though at the moment.

I can select a track with a knob on the mixer, then hit a button on the mixer to assign the track to a deck.

Laptop then has 60k tracks available to the software.

 

[skyscraper101]

horses for courses...

If you go and see many of the top DJs who have honed their craft for years on vinyl you'll find a lot of them are using stuff like this. Most use serato, but I've increasingly seen Ableton getting used as well by the likes of Tong/Sasha etc.

As testament to the rise of just how good Serato is. It's interesting to see how self confessed DJ luddite's like have taken to it. He doesn't do CDJs or laptop tweaking and wouldn't move for years from vinyl - but he now uses Serato and thinks its great. But mainly because he can use it just as he did with the old vinyl - only he arranges his tunes in advance by BPM on the laptop, rather than in his record box - which is what he used to do.

I also think it's great but haven't gone for the plunge yet. Im pretty happy with vinyl/CD & MP3 separately. Incidentally Ive been playing on pioneer DVJ-1000s this week and mixing music videos on DVD is fucking

For all its greatness in convenience though, timecoded vinyls can create more hassle than they're worth. Especially when you turn up to fill a DJ slot in a small club with a tiny booth and you're challenged with having to keep the music going from the previous DJ while you both briefly occupy the same small space in the changeover, while faffing about plugging in your laptop, finding somewhere for it to sit (out of the way of the decks), plugging in your midi timecode unit on the back of the mixer to make it compatible, plug that into the power (if you can find 2 extra slots for laptop and said unit), plug in the extra phono leads you need to go in the line-ins of the mixer (this has to be done one one deck first only to keep the music going from pure vinyl to midi vinyl) and then booting it all up selecting your opening tune and mixing it in with the currently playing track.

Try doing all that and making sure the previous tune hasn't run out yet and you're left with a rapidly clearing dance floor. It's just not practical. Not to mention Ed's point about flying beer and general sweat, dust and smoke all getting on your expensive machine.

But it really depends on the setup. If you could just walk in and everything was in place - time coded vinyl is a choice invention and very convenient.

 

[Kanda]

Setting up can be a pain. Silly to have it as your only tool though.

Native Instruments said they were going to send interconnects to loads and loads of clubs. Dunno if they have yet. Would make sense...

 

[teuchter]

It's a timecoded signal so in effect, the MP3 is mapped to whatever you do on that bit of vinyl. You only really have to carry 2 bits of vinyl or 2 CD's with you as you map any track to any deck.

Watch the video.

OK I'll watch the video when I'm at home.

 

[editor]

The Hardware/Software is £550. Add the costs of decks/mixer.

So realistically, it would be fair to say you're looking at £2k minimum with the laptop, mixer and decks, yes? Or would you say that is a conservative estimate (I guess there's no point getting a high end set up and then plugging in a pair of £100 decks)?

Are there any cheaper - but similar alternatives - or is it a case of false economies when it comes to this kind of stuff? I guess you're going to need a fairly robust laptop for sweaty clubs at least....

 

[Kanda]

Pair of 1200's £500?
Mixer £150-400
Software £550

I reckon that's about the cheapest. Mines grown over the years and is a touch over 4k

Bastard made me add it up!

I don't know how much competitors software/hardware is, I think Serrato may be a bit cheaper.

 

[Kanda]

Of course, most people would be adding to existing setups (apart from the numptys the thread is aimed at)

 

[editor]

I reckon that's about the cheapest. Mines grown over the years and is a touch over 4k

Blimey, for that price I'd expect it to come with an onboard mixer channel dispensing free beer! I know how the costs can add up though: the (ahem) 'small' PA I bought for the Albert soon escalated in costs as new mixers, mics and bass bins were needed. And then lots of smaller costs like replacement leads, mic stands - even replenishing gaffa tape adds up.

Do you play out much? I'd love to see all this wizardry in action and maybe be given a brief guide.

 

[Kanda]

Do you play out much? I'd love to see all this wizardry in action and maybe be given a brief guide.

Nah, haven't played out for a while. Intend to get back into it soon.

Once I've moved, you're welcome to come over and check it out

 

[chico enrico]

So realistically, it would be fair to say you're looking at £2k minimum with the laptop, mixer and decks, yes? Or would you say that is a conservative estimate (I guess there's no point getting a high end set up and then plugging in a pair of £100 decks)?

GULP!

a couple of the best DJs i have ever known in my life haven't even owned a set of decks for years (if not decades!), they just have excellent record colections and a good 'ear' for putting tracks together and as a result of that get booked to play out a lot.

i.e. the utter opposite of having all that technical stuff as by the sounds of it you have to have all that set up and be fuly conversant with it before you can even start to play out, and it doesn't sound like something you can get the hang of like you can with two records, a set of headphones & a mixer.

kind of invalidates the whole democratisation & demystification argument in fact.

heh.