Day of rage: National march on the israeli embassy

[winjer]

call a demo to stop 'all the violence' including the Grad rockets.

By what alternative means do you suggest the people of Gaza defend themselves? Have a starve-in?

 

[STFC]

How effective do you think the rockets are in defending Gaza? Going by recent events I'd suggest the answer is 'not very'.

Surely the only way forward is an end to all hostilities?

 

[El Jefe]

Raise money for the victims, in Sheffield they, the PSC, raised a fantastic 3'000 pounds on one day for wheelchairs,.

brilliant. It may not stop the slaughter, but at least they'll be looked after once they lose their legs.

Assuming the wheelchairs are ever allowed to get to the victims of course.

 

[treelover]

So how does marching from A to B do anything for the Palestinians either?, surely that can only be a gesture, i prefer to give practical support

 

[belboid]

you shutting the fuck up with your whining would do a lot more for your cause. if you want to raise money, great, but dont whine about people who want to do something else, because all you do is fuck them off and decrease the chances of them giving you any money.

Not to mention the fact that getting the uk govt to donate some cash (by demonstrating or whatever) would raise a fuck sight more money than the PSC will be able to

 

[treelover]

been on MATB recently Belboid, here is a flavour, its gesture politics

'There will be dying quietly regardless of you marching in cold January. Israel doesn't really give a toss about world government opinion,less so a group of beans and raving religionists marching in cold january. Like the article linked above says, this conflict for the beans is less about the palestinains and more about something ideologically and emotinally bigger than them ,the pals are just a template for beans.'

 

[treelover]

the article from spiked, which i usually have no time for

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6078/


meanwhile, tonight pensioners will die of the cold......

 

[belboid]

been on MATB recently Belboid, here is a flavour, its gesture politics

what are you on about? if you have a point make it, and stop drivelling.

Are you incapable of answering the criticisms of your specious point? All you have done is repeat what you said in the first place. If you've nothing to add, please do crawl back under your rock

 

[belboid]

btw, is your quote from someone, banned from here, who has proudly never done any politics in his sad pathetic life by any remote chance?

 

[Udo Erasmus]

It's interesting the link that claims that Left wing support for Palestine is some recent fad to cosy up to Islamists. Er, people like Tariq Ali, Black Panthers, Michel Foucault, Jean Genet, Jewish Trotskyists like Tony Cliff, Nathan Weinstock and others were supporting the Palestinians way back. In the early twentieth century, Zionists saw socialists as their main competitors for the hearts and soul of Jewish public opinion.

The attempts to judge contemporary Hamas by some statements made in their early history is absurd. Living in Wales, if I were to adopt the same approach I would characterise Plaid Cymru not by its actual positions, but instead rake the internet for quotes from some of its founders in the 1930s who were fellow travellers of fascism & its early dedication to destroying the English langage in Wales etc.

When I was growing up I was always told that the Palestinians wanted to destroy Israel and drive the Jews into the sea (strange when it has always been the Palestinians being driven off their land) and that this could be found in the PLO charter. Then I discovered that what the PLO had actually called for was the destruction of Israel in the same manner as Irish republicans wanted to destroy Northern Ireland, and the PLO had actually called for a secular, democratic state where Jews and Arabs would live with full equal rights - quite different to what you'd read in most Western commentary. (The PLO later adopted the two state solution).

Treelover really needs to read up a bit more, rather than re-hashing all this old bullshit about the Palestinians.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

From the Stop the War Coalition:

GOVERNMENT BLOCKS GAZA DEMONSTRATION AT ISRAELI EMBASSY

Ministers are obstructing the holding of a national demonstration on Saturday
to protest against the Israeli invasion of Gaza, march organisers said today.

Officials of the Royal Parks Agency, acting under the authority of Culture
Secretary Andy Burnham, have blocked a plan to hold a rally in Kensington
Palace Gardens near the Israeli Embassy in London.

The demonstration, organised by the Stop the War Coalition, Palestine
Solidarity Campaign and British Muslim Initiative, is expected to attract tens
of thousands of people from across the country, outraged at the massacre of
Palestinians taking place in Gaza.

"The arrangements for our march and rally were notified to the police days
ago," Stop the War Coalition chair Andrew Murray said today. "We have now
found that they are being blocked by the Parks authorities, in consultation
with ministers, on the spurious pretext of a lack of precedent.

"This nonsensical argument recalls government attempts to stop the rally
against the Iraq war in February 2003 on the grounds that the grass in Hyde
Park might be damaged.

"Ministers should understand that the anger against Israeli aggression against
the Palestinian people is also without precedent. We are determined to
exercise our democratic right to express that outrage in a public space near
the Israeli Embassy.

"Attempting to block our plans - which have been drawn up with a view to
ensuring a peaceful and orderly protest on Saturday - risks making thousands of people angrier still.

"We are therefore seeking an urgent meeting with Mr Burnham to ensure that he removes these bureaucratic obstructions and allows our protest to proceed as planned."

 

[In Bloom]

"We are therefore seeking an urgent meeting with Mr Burnham to ensure that he removes these bureaucratic obstructions and allows our protest to proceed as planned."

For fucks sake, why not just go ahead and hold the rally anyway?

 

[belboid]

Gee, I bet no one else thought of that!

It's still sensible to ask politely first, and then go ahead and try to do it if/when they refuse.

I'm sure you'll not want to pointlessly attack any police lines that are put up to block the demo getting there tho

 

[In Bloom]

Gee, I bet no one else thought of that!

It's still sensible to ask politely first, and then go ahead and try to do it if/when they refuse.

Trying to negotiate with them at all is a mistake. That StWC bothered to ask permission in the first place is an indicator of how shit they are.

I'm sure you'll not want to pointlessly attack any police lines that are put up to block the demo getting there tho

As I said on the other thread, only if there's enough people that there'd be a reasonable chance of success. Which there will be.

If anything, the best thing that could result from this demo would be an occupation, like the one at the Greek embassy not so long ago.

 

[belboid]

Trying to negotiate with them at all is a mistake. That StWC bothered to ask permission in the first place is an indicator of how shit they are.

Do explain your rationale. (this should be fun)

 

[Fullyplumped]

For fucks sake, why not just go ahead and hold the rally anyway?

I think the rally outside the embassy got blocked because Frogwoman said in this forum that it would have been awesome would be if protesters occupied the Israeli Embassy and replaced the Israeli flag with a Palestinian one . So blame her.

Seriously, there are clearly people who would love to try that , and it would inevitably lead to serious injury and probable loss if life if they got close to achiweving their goal, so just as well it's been banned. Even if it makes Andrew Murray all angry.

 

[belboid]

yes, heaven forfend that some protest might achieve something!

 

[Fullyplumped]

The attempts to judge contemporary Hamas by some statements made in their early history is absurd. Living in Wales, if I were to adopt the same approach I would characterise Plaid Cymru not by its actual positions, but instead rake the internet for quotes from some of its founders in the 1930s who were fellow travellers of fascism & its early dedication to destroying the English langage in Wales etc.

You mean the HAMAS charter, don't you?

 

[Fullyplumped]

yes, heaven forfend that some protest might achieve something!

All that a siege and assault on the Israeli embassy will achieve is lots of hurt and dead people in London. That won't really help civilians actually suffering in Gaza right now. It might help Andrew Murray's propaganda campaign but I don't think that's such a good move myself.

 

[belboid]

All that a siege and assault on the Israeli embassy will achieve is lots of hurt and dead people in London.

that's about as likely to happen as Israel is to hand over East Jerusalem

 

[In Bloom]

Do explain your rationale. (this should be fun)

It's not difficult, by seeking the state's permission to march, they allow the state to place limits on where they can go, what they can do, how many of them there can be, when they leave one place, when they arrive in the other, when the rally has to end, etc. etc.

Essentially, by asking for permission, they help the state ensure that the protest remains safe, calm and (most importantly) completely inneffective.

 

[belboid]

yeah, cos they'd never guess what the aim of the demo was otherwise would they?

And having an illegal demo would make it so much bigger, thus massively increasings its chances of achieving its aim.

The politics of the playground.

 

[frogwoman]

I think the rally outside the embassy got blocked because Frogwoman said in this forum that it would have been awesome would be if protesters occupied the Israeli Embassy and replaced the Israeli flag with a Palestinian one . So blame her.

sad isn't it how jews always get blamed for all the problems in the world

 

[Fullyplumped]

that's about as likely to happen as Israel is to hand over East Jerusalem

Sorry, I meant an effective siege and assault. But there are people who would "have a go", or more likely try to goad others into doing so.

 

[Fullyplumped]

sad isn't it how jews always get blamed for all the problems in the world

I thought you weren't Jewish - that's how I read your profile anyway. But it is your fault.

 

[frogwoman]

I thought you weren't Jewish - that's how I read your profile anyway. But it is your fault.

I am Jewish lol.

 

[In Bloom]

yeah, cos they'd never guess what the aim of the demo was otherwise would they?

Of course they'd know, the point is that they'll try to get all sorts of concessions out of you, as you well know.

And having an illegal demo would make it so much bigger, thus massively increasings its chances of achieving its aim.

There's no reason why a well publicised illegal demo should be much smaller than a legal one. In any case, if all you have is an a-b march, numbers are irrelevant, the entire population of London could passively walk along the route of the march and then fuck off home, it wouldn't change what Israel is doing one iota.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I am Jewish lol.

Ah - I got confused by this - "Biography - a dark tunnel of goyische ignorance".

 

[Bakunin]

Of course they'd know, the point is that they'll try to get all sorts of concessions out of you, as you well know.


There's no reason why a well publicised illegal demo should be much smaller than a legal one. In any case, if all you have is an a-b march, numbers are irrelevant, the entire population of London could passively walk along the route of the march and then fuck off home, it wouldn't change what Israel is doing one iota.

Have to agree with you on this.

'Police liaison' (and I have direct personal experience, having done it) is often a total waste of time, with plod trying to get you to concede as much as possible while giving little or nothing in return.

And A to B marches tend to be of, at best, limited use irrespective of their numbers. February 15th proved that.

An occupied and/or trashed embassy with a Palestinian flag hanging from it would be a statement with an impact that nobody could ignore even if they wanted to.

 

[belboid]

Sorry, I meant an effective siege and assault. But there are people who would "have a go", or more likely try to goad others into doing so.

how many people were killed or injured in the 'assault' on the US embassy in 68? Why would this be any different?