Day of rage: National march on the israeli embassy

[rioted]

Fine words, no doubt with some truth, but Hamas has also just recently allowed crucifixion into the penal code.

So, on the moral high ground, actual nuclear bombs or non-existent crucifixion?

 

[Azrael]

I imagine there's more chance of a crucifixion than a nuclear strike.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

I know what you mean, but it is worth adding that drinking alcohol is hardly alien to the region or necessarily secular.

Muhammad opposed drinking (i.e. alcohol in Arab lands predates Islam) whilst to this day many fine wines are grown in the area. Whether that will be the case in 50 years time is another matter...........

A friend of mine was in Palestine when Hamas won, he was invited to join a group of Palestinian Christians who were having a few drinks to celebrate. This sums up the contradictions. Of course, I would prefer that the resistance was led by secular, socialist leftists, but we have to deal with the here and now. In the context of this invasion which is being waged under the banner of smashing Hamas (the democratically elected representatives of the Palestinian people), I'm not gonna get that offended that someone carries a banner saying "We are all Hamas". I don't romanticise Hamas, nor do I demonise them.

Treelover should really research his facts & read up a bit more on Palestinian history before spouting his ill-informed crap.

Firstly, he repeats offensive demands that the Palestinians recognise Israel (in fact, Hamas like the PLO before it have unofficially endorsed a two-state solution), but we need to ask, what does 'recognise' mean? That the Palestinians say, "Yes, it is okay that in 1948 we were driven from the land where we lived for generations"

More to the point, Hamas rhetorically say, The PLO recognised Israel, what did it achieve? The occupation continued, all West backed Peace Processes have been shams designed to repackage the occupation rather than end it.

Hamas' stance is that the first step before any real negotiations can take place is an end to the occupation and blockades of West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem & an end to the continued agression. If these simple steps are met they have offered Israel a ten-year truce for negotiations to take place.

We should also remember that every time Hamas has agreed a truce or ceasefire with Israel, Israel has either broken it, continued military operations, or pushed policies of slow killing such as the total blockade of Gaza.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Now let's cut the crap and open up the second front of the Palestinian resistance on the streets of London - one of the great centres of imperial power.

 

[kenny g]

Agreed. Are there any actions being contemplated against economic power rather than just set piece moves against the embassy?

 

[winjer]

Agreed. Are there any actions being contemplated against economic power rather than just set piece moves against the embassy. I am thinking moves against Israeli produce/ financial institutions/ banks etc?

Yes.

International Call to Action Against Agrexco

Amongst others.

 

[Azrael]

Are products made in China and the majority of Arab nations also to be boycotted?

 

[DownwardDog]

What liberal sensitivies would you like to see? I think they should have the legal right to hold such a banner. Considering what Hamas gets upto, that's liberal in the extreme.

Those two are probably in the back of a Gulfstream V with cable ties round their wrists halfway to Syria by now anyway.

 

[grogwilton]

I will be going to this.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I know what you mean, but it is worth adding that drinking alcohol is hardly alien to the region or necessarily secular.

best beer i ever had was in the west bank

Probably a shit beer, it was just the first one in a month

 

[Taxamo Welf]

The liberal sensitivities shown by some on here to two Asian lads holding a banner supporting Hamas, on a march of 50,000, where the other 49,998 are not holding any such banners and then using that to knock the anti-war movement is just plain pathetic.

well said!

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Which obviously is why they've been firing rockets at Israel knowing the response they'd ultimately get from it - and a new recruiting drive for themselves...

It really depends on how you look at it. I look at it like this: the Israelis govt is aware that if it started genuine peace negotiations including a just solution on land then th attacks would stop, as they have done in the past. Hamas has called and maintained ceasefires. Israeli govt see the resultant attacks of its inaction as acceptable losses - in the long run hostilities serve it well.

 

[butchersapron]

You're a communist yeah?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

You're a communist yeah?

oh jesus what now?

I'm explaining how i see the situation, did i have to end with 'and the only option is for the israeli working class to unite with the palestinian working class to smash bourgeoise religion and imperialism, live in harmony and create new dishes like kebagels'

 

[butchersapron]

Support Hamas.

There's no politics in your running around. Stop, make the political point (if you have one)

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Support Hamas.

and what if i refuse!

 

[butchersapron]

You'll end up with the empty position that you have now. But AT LEAST YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING

 

[DownwardDog]

and what if i refuse!

 

[Dan U]

kebagels

*wants*

 

[Prince Rhyus]

I know I shouldn't laugh, but I'm picturing lots of people marching from A to B, growling or roaring for a bit (that's the rage bit) and then going back home to tell everyone how we 'really showed them our rage.'

"We at the Party for Working Socialism took to the streets on this day of rage, marched from A to B, growled in front of [insert place], listened to speeches from [the usual suspects], chanted [the usual chants] and went back home to formulate plans for a new meeting to prepare for the overthrow of the imperialist capitalist system that oppresses the working classes, and replace it with a network of democratically elected soviets and workers councils to decide how much of what should be produced."

Sorry...late night

 

[Taxamo Welf]

You'll end up with the empty position that you have now. But AT LEAST YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING

Actually i'm not. And i don't have 'a position' on this, where did i claim to?

There's no politics in your running around. Stop, make the political point (if you have one)

i don't. I was discussing the situation if thats alright.

stop being a dickhead.

why, what's your position? Stop, make the political point (if you have one).

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

.

They are Hamas.

Does this mean they think jews caused the French and Russian revolution, they believe in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and want all jews dead, as well?


People + sheep = .............

 

[_float_]

Now let's cut the crap and open up the second front of the Palestinian resistance on the streets of London - one of the great centres of imperial power.

You want to open a "second front" in London?

Does this include killing people?

Who are "legitimate targets" in your view?

 

[Luther Blissett]

oh jesus what now?

I'm explaining how i see the situation, did i have to end with 'and the only option is for the israeli working class to unite with the palestinian working class to smash bourgeoise religion and imperialism, live in harmony and create new dishes like kebagels'

That is the only solution though, isn't it?

 

[Luther Blissett]

They are Hamas.

Does this mean they think jews caused the French and Russian revolution, they believe in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and want all jews dead, as well?


People + sheep = .............

If you believe what Itamar Marcus says and others like him, then yes.
If you want an accurate understanding of the situation today, then find another more reliable source of info than Marcus & Co.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

If you believe what Itamar Marcus says and others like him, then yes.
If you want an accurate understanding of the situation today, then find another more reliable source of info than Marcus & Co.

There's lots of it in a number of threads today; you just have to look.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You want to open a "second front" in London?

Does this include killing people?

Who are "legitimate targets" in your view?

Well, if 'they are Hamas', who is it that Hamas is dedicated to killing?

 

[STFC]

Now let's cut the crap and open up the second front of the Palestinian resistance on the streets of London - one of the great centres of imperial power.

Good luck with that.

Allah u akbar, eh?

 

[chilango]

I guess there's a hierachy of points that need addressing:

1) Is it a bad thing that Israel is attacking Gaza?

I guess most here would say so.

So what can we do about it?

Demos etc.? Well, maybe. Thats point No.1 to debate.



2) The people of Gaza have a right to defend themselves.

Again, I guess that most people here would also agree with that.

But, is there anything we could or should do in support of that right?



3) Hamas seems to be the main vehicle at the moment for the people of Gaza to defend themselves militarily.

Does that mean we support Hamas as an organisation, or merely recognise the fact?

Either way, what could or should we do with regards to Hamas being the military vehicle of choice in Gaza?

 

[treelover]

Raise money for the victims, in Sheffield they, the PSC, raised a fantastic 3'000 pounds on one day for wheelchairs, stop the grandstanding and cheerleading for Hamas, call a demo to stop 'all the violence' including the Grad rockets.