David Bowie a nazi ?

[littlebabyjesus]

It seems a little odd that he didn't stump up the whole $100,000, but hey ho, I haven't given a penny.

 

[ice-is-forming]

ooo...*sarcastic smiley* was he wasn't he was he wasn't he???? who fucking cares bowie was /is a genius imo....can't you lot keep politics out of anything

SO FUCKING WHAT .

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Midway through, Clapton sits down for a section of Robert Johnson songs, as featured on his latest album, Me And Mr Johnson. The picture on the cover is a monumental conceit, depicting a time-travel meeting between Clapton and the soul-selling bluesman. In real life, we all know this would never have happened: Clapton would have been at the airport, shopping Johnson to Immigration.

From http://www.clapton.de/presse/artikel/2004_05_london01.htm.

 

[Dr. Furface]

He's also just donated $10000 to a legal fund for black Americans convicted by an all white jury of allegedly assaulting a white person.

Nice gesture. But just $10k from Mr Bowie - who probably makes that and more each day in royalties and investments - a gesture is all it is.

 

[Irenick]

Bowie flirted with Nazi/Fascist stuff years ago. There are photos of him in Nazi uniforms, exaggerated jodhpurs and brilliantly shined jackboots; seems he liked the ‘clean-cut’ image, the aesthetics over the ideology – I imagine if the Soviets were doing a line in classic cut uniforms, he’d have jumped in there.

But, I could be wrong; and Bowie may well be a Fuehrer-in-waiting...

 

[editor]

But, I could be wrong; and Bowie may well be a Fuehrer-in-waiting...

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[cybertect]

I went to see Sid Griffin, ex Long Ryders, last night.

Damn! Why didn't I know about this?

I intended to see the Long Ryders in the Acoustic Tent at Glasto 2004, turned up at the appointed time and discovered that they'd switched slots with Jerry Fish & The Mudbug Club, so I'd missed their set.

e2a: Just checked his web site I figure this was in Bristol on Thursday night? I can feel a bit better about missing it as I'm in London, though it seems he was doing an evening of Long Ryders songs. Hope it was a good one.

 

[nino_savatte]

Bit of trivia: this was Bowie's Thin White Duke period.

 

[Groucho]

In August 1976, Eric Clapton made a speech at a Birmingham concert in support of Enoch Powell. The photographer Red Saunders, and the left-wing activist Dave Widgery wrote a reply, which was subsequently published in the New Musical Express, Melody Maker and Socialist Worker. The letter called for the formation of opposition to the likes of Clapton and to racism in music in general and led directly to the formation of Rock Against Racism.

When we read about Eric Clapton's Birmingham concert when he urged support for Enoch Powell, we nearly puked. Come on Eric... Own up. Half your music is black. You're rock music's biggest colonist... We want to organise a rank and file movement against the racist poison in music... P. S. Who shot the Sheriff Eric? It sure as hell wasn't you!

Bowie's brief flirtation with fascism is often quoted along with Clapton's speech as an example that led to the need for RAR. For example in Widgery's (along with Ruth Dark and Andy Gregory) fantastic Beating Time: Race, Riot and Rock n Roll. The story of rock against racism.

 

[nino_savatte]

In August 1976, Eric Clapton made a speech at a Birmingham concert in support of Enoch Powell. The photographer Red Saunders, and the left-wing activist Dave Widgery wrote a reply, which was subsequently published in the New Musical Express, Melody Maker and Socialist Worker. The letter called for the formation of opposition to the likes of Clapton and to racism in music in general and led directly to the formation of Rock Against Racism.



Bowie's flirtation with fascism is often quoted along with Clapton's speech as an example that led to the need for RAR. For example in Widgery's (along with Ruth Dark and Andy Gregory) fantastic Beating Time: Race, Riot and Rock n Roll. The story of rock against racism.

I remember reading this in the NME too.

 

[audiotech]

The setting up of RAR was indeed an immediate response to Clapton's "Enoch was right comments". A letter was sent to the NME and the rest as they say is history.

Clapton has never distanced himself from those remarks, unlike Bowie, who moved from flirting with Nazi imagery and ideas to a clear anti-fascist stance.

 

[audiotech]

Never been quite sure about that lot. Musically, they are fucking spectacular (well, Joy Division were spectacular, New Order are merely very good), but to name your band Joy Division (with all that that evokes), wait for the hysteria, then call your new band New Order is either carrying deliberate offending of public morals to new levels, or is done for some ideological reason.

Bernard Sumner reacted to the nonsense written about Joy Division by describing the band as "Trotskist". In reality the band had no politics apart from being influenced by Tony Wilson's "situationist" leanings. In an interview in the Observer in 2002 Wilson had this to say:

Punk...tore away the dross but all it could say was, "fuck you!". Joy Division came along and said something much more dark and complex. They said, "we are lost".

There was a really good programme last night on BBC4 about Factory.

The new film about Joy Division titled "Control" is set to be released in October and so far it has had some great reviews.

http://momentum.control.substance001.com/

 

[nino_savatte]

Tony Wilson's "situationist" leanings

<rubs chin> Hmmmm, aye, he had leanings all right.

 

[London Boy]

Of course there are differences, especially on the question of 'race' or ethnicity between classical fascists and national socialists (nazis).

In the founding years of Italian fascism in the 1920s, many members of the National Fascist Party were Italian Jews and not all fascist movements took the ideal of humans being classified by ethnicity or 'race' as a method of societal organisation.

Not all fascists hold racist or racialist views and likewise, not all racists are fascist, the KKK being a good example here.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Clapton admitted he had been incredibly drunk (he was later diagnosed as an alcoholic and was drunk from about the mid-70s to 1987) and couldn't recall the incident. In 1988 he appeared in the Nelson Mandela Birthday show (with Dire Straits). Robin Denselow described it as "Clapton had obviously altered his views, and appearing in the show was one way of making that clear" ("When the Music's Over: The Story of Political Pop"). The show was condemned by Tory MPs in parliament for supporting "terrorists".

He has also supported the Crossroads Centre in Antigua, to support drug and alcohol rehabilitation for the poor of the Caribbean.

It's no excuse for what he originally said at the time, but he does appear to have sought to make amends since.

 

[isvicthere?]

nit pick, nit pick

It was 1975 and he had just returned from a World tour. I remember it well and I went off Bowie after that. I've actually got a copy of the original NME article somewhere.

I can remember reading it at the time, and I'm pretty sure it was 1976.

 

[nino_savatte]

I can remember reading it at the time, and I'm pretty sure it was 1976.

You're probably right.

 

[Idris2002]

Of course there are differences, especially on the question of 'race' or ethnicity between classical fascists and national socialists (nazis).

In the founding years of Italian fascism in the 1920s, many members of the National Fascist Party were Italian Jews and not all fascist movements took the ideal of humans being classified by ethnicity or 'race' as a method of societal organisation.

Not all fascists hold racist or racialist views and likewise, not all racists are fascist, the KKK being a good example here.

I'd say the aggressive and extreme nationalism of fascism inevitably drives it towards a biological concept of 'race' and of racial supremacy. The idea that the Italian fascists weren't racist is simply not true: well before the introduction of the Italian racial laws in 1938 they had introduced racial segregation in Asmara, the capital of Eritrea (then an Italian colony).

As for New Order, years ago I read an interview with one of the singers saying that they took the name from Prince Sihanouk's movement in Cambodia.

 

[Ms Ordinary]

The Sieg Heiling episode was (according to him) an unfortunate case of being caught by the camera in mid-wave to his fans whilst getting out of a car.

I can't help but re-picture that as "Father Ted Crilly inadvertantly offends Craggy Island's Chinese Community" .

 

[Chairman Meow]

I can't help but re-picture that as "Father Ted Crilly inadvertantly offends Craggy Island's Chinese Community" .

 

[Taxamo Welf]

so...

what did clapton say?

 

[ska invita]

He dia state he admired fascism a while ago - early '80s ? - then again, I think he was off his cake at the time anyway

 

[ska invita]

BUMP

What years could be classified as the fascist years?

Wiki says he retracted his comments in October 1977 - those comments being:

Speaking as the Thin White Duke, Bowie's persona at the time, and "at least partially tongue-in-cheek" (no citation on that bit), he made statements that expressed support for fascism and perceived admiration for Adolf Hitler in interviews with Playboy, NME and a Swedish publication. Bowie was quoted as saying: "Britain is ready for a fascist leader... I think Britain could benefit from a fascist leader. After all, fascism is really nationalism... I believe very strongly in fascism, people have always responded with greater efficiency under a regimental leadership." He was also quoted as saying: "Adolf Hitler was one of the first rock stars" and "You've got to have an extreme right front come up and sweep everything off its feet and tidy everything up."[218][219]

This below is 73 and has the Flash and Circle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in the back and possibly very creepily manages to turn the classic VU track into what feels like a white power anthem.... check 3.20 - 3.24 where the lightening bolt flashes...all very strange

 

[belboid]

Well, here's the NNME article referred to - The Quietus | Features | Rock's Backpages | Classic David Bowie Interview: Adolf Hitler And The Need For A New Right

 

[ska invita]

Well, here's the NNME article referred to - The Quietus | Features | Rock's Backpages | Classic David Bowie Interview: Adolf Hitler And The Need For A New Right

Pretty incoherent waffle eh.

 

[ouchmonkey]

"Who says the space people have got no eyes? You have – you've got one in every living room in the world. That's theoretical of course..."

 

[ska invita]

I was thinking about China Girl and wanted to know the lyrics.. Looked them up and there's a weird line about him walking around with swastikas in his eyes..
Cant cnp it as on phone but maybe someone else can...

 

[Pickman's model]

I was thinking about China Girl and wanted to know the lyrics.. Looked them up and there's a weird line about him walking around with swastikas in his eyes..
Cant cnp it as on phone but maybe someone else can...

I stumble into town just like a sacred cow
Visions of swastikas in my head
Plans for everyone
It's in the white of my eyes

 

[Epona]

I haven't even read this thread, but he did flirt a bit with nazi imagery in the '70s. He is not the only musician/band to have done that, but it did happen.

 

[Pickman's model]

I haven't even read this thread, but he did flirt a bit with nazi imagery in the '70s. He is not the only musician/band to have done that, but it did happen.

said something about liking the nazi aesthetick too iirc