Dalai Lama Sued For Repressing Freedom To Worship

[Fruitloop]

The Dalai Lama's done a lot of hand-chopping has he?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Not if you're a Tibetan Serf whose had you're eyes guaged out at looking at a Tibetan Priest without due humility.

Or Your're hand chopped Off because you were late for work a few times too many.

I think I'd take my chances compared to this:

1.2 million Tibetans have died as a direct result of Chinese atrocities. Not on the front page of your news? It should be. Over 6,000 monasteries and institutes of learning in Tibet have been destroyed, to date. Precious Tibetan artifacts are being vandalized and sold in Hong Kong markets.

Over 6,000 Tibetan religious and historical literature have been destroyed, from what's been able to be counted. Tibetans in Tibet today are second class citizens without basic human rights like freedom of expression, freedom of religion, the right to education.

Tibetan women are subjected to forced abortion and sterilization. Tibetan children are denied their right to schooling, and 70% of Tibetans living in Tibet are now illiterate.

There are arbitrary arrests, torture, intimidation and imprisonment without trial.

Thousands of Tibetans are still in prisons in China. Tibet's natural resources and fragile ecology are being irreversibly destroyed.

These statistics have been compiled by data from Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Freedom House, Human Rights First, and the United Nations.

And don't tell me it's exagerated. I've spoken to people who were there.

 

[biff curtains]

this:



And don't tell me it's exagerated. I've spoken to people who were there.

Would that be those racial supremicists you mentioned earlier?

 

[Dillinger4]

So what we can gather is that ordinary Tibetans are fucked if they stay in a feudal and corrupt feudal society and fucked by being ruled over by the Chinese.

I find it strange for people to romanticize Tibet, and the claim that any criticism of the Tibetan cause only helps China. I don't think it is right for posters here to write off everything Nigel is saying.

 

[biff curtains]

From this site

http://www.jewelheart.org/

Declaration by Gelek Rimpoche
I was surprised to discover my photograph on a Dorje Shugden website as one of the “prominent masters” on that website.

I would like to confirm that His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the unquestioned leader of Tibet and all Tibetans inside and outside of Tibet and has my total respect.

I received the initiation of Dorje Shugden from Kyabje Trijang Rimpoche in the 1950s. I was a practitioner from that time until June 20th, 2000 at the Western Buddhist teacher’s conference at Spirit Rock, Woodacre, California. At that conference His Holiness asked me, “What would you like to do?” I answered with folded hands, “Whatever you say.” Then His Holiness said, “Alright, stop practicing Dorje Shugden and tell Dorje Shugden that I told you to stop.” He further said, “And don’t change your mind.” Since then I have stopped the practice completely.

Therefore, to display my picture in a list of Dorje Shugden masters is inappropriate.

Somebody been holding his hand on a hot plate?

Also glad to see his support for the principles of democratic leadership!

 

[Dillinger4]

And I think it is the ordinary Tibetans we should show any kind of solidarity with, the exile settlements in Mundgod and Bylakuppe in Southern India. All the media attention is on upper-class Dharamsala: nobody, not the Dalai Lama or Richard Gere included - talks about the destitute thousands in these two larger camps

(paraphrased from a letter in the current issue of the LRB)

 

[Dillinger4]

From this site

http://www.jewelheart.org/



Somebody been holding his hand on a hot plate?

Also glad to see his support for the principles of democratic leadership!

Agreed.

One tyranny traded for another would not be a good thing. In this case, it would probably be a step backward.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Would that be those racial supremicists you mentioned earlier?

No. The University often sponsors Tibetan refugees to come and speak at the Culture Center and at the E.N. Thompson Forum on World Affairs.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Agreed.

One tyranny traded for another would not be a good thing. In this case, it would probably be a step backward.

As I said before, just because one is wrong it doesn't make the other right.

 

[Dillinger4]

But one should not hold back from criticism of Tibetan theocracy. Contrary to popular opinion on this thread, that does NOT make you pro-Chinese, either.

 

[biff curtains]

As I said before, just because one is wrong it doesn't make the other right.

Exactly. They're both shit.

 

[Y_I_Otter]

There is no evidence that he has renounced or even criticised the way in which Tibet was before it was liberated by the PLA.

Good heavens, he's talked about little other than democratic reforms since his autobiography was published in the early 1960s.

"Serfdom", severed limbs, allusions to the CIA... from whom have we heard all that before? The telling expression, though, is "Dalai Lama clique".

Capitalising on the "shugden controversy" smells like an attempt by the PRC to project onto the Gelugpa hierarchy in India the kind of persecution China takes stick for when they beat and imprison practitioners of Falun Dafa.

 

[purves grundy]

Good heavens, he's talked about little other than democratic reforms since his autobiography was published in the early 1960s.

"Serfdom", severed limbs, allusions to the CIA... from whom have we heard all that before? The telling expression, though, is "Dalai Lama clique".

Capitalising on the "shugden controversy" smells like an attempt by the PRC to project onto the Gelugpa hierarchy in India the kind of persecution China takes stick for when they beat and imprison practitioners of Falun Dafa.

Nigel is a freakish Maoist automaton. That Tibetans should be granted self-determination and the realisation of their human rights is an utterly bourgeois idea to him, they have to remain 'liberated' from such pernicious CIA inspired myths.

 

[Yossarian]

But one should not hold back from criticism of Tibetan theocracy. Contrary to popular opinion on this thread, that does NOT make you pro-Chinese, either.

Of course not - same as being against Islamic theocracy doesn't automatically make somebody pro-Israel.

 

[Nigel]

U.S.Imperialist Lies

I think I'd take my chances compared to this:



And don't tell me it's exagerated. I've spoken to people who were there.

Must be true then?

Is there any evidence to back this up, sources.
The only atrocities committed a are those supporting the Dalia Lam Clique. Not just against Hann Chinese, but also against Tibetan Communists & Socialists.

YOU TALK COMPLETE BOLLOX

Perhaps you should make links with your fellow pro-Right Wing Nationalist/"Anarchist?" 'comrades' across the pond, they seem to have a better understanding of the situation than yourself and you're fellow middle class liberal lefty wankers, who think that Hinduism, Buddhism and other religous practices that support a rigid caste system, especially when they manifest themselves as a political force are so fucking trendy & mystical.
http://bayareanationalanarchists.com/blog/2008/04/bana-takes-the-olympic-torch-b.html

 

[Yossarian]

I think the Nigel-bot 4000 just blew a fuse...

 

[Nigel]

What is the E.N. Thompson Forum: Some sort of right wing thinktank.:co
Does'nt seem to be Neo-Con

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Must be true then?

Is there any evidence to back this up, sources.
The only atrocities committed a are those supporting the Dalia Lam Clique. Not just against Hann Chinese, but also against Tibetan Communists & Socialists.

YOU TALK COMPLETE BOLLOX

Perhaps you should make links with your fellow pro-Right Wing Nationalist/"Anarchist?" 'comrades' across the pond, they seem to have a better understanding of the situation than yourself and you're fellow middle class liberal lefty wankers, who think that Hinduism, Buddhism and other religous practices that support a rigid caste system, especially when they manifest themselves as a political force are so fucking trendy & mystical.
http://bayareanationalanarchists.com/blog/2008/04/bana-takes-the-olympic-torch-b.html

Honey please.... the Chinese can't even make toothpaste that isn't dangerous to humans.

Lets see, you missed on "middle class." Missed on "pro-Right Wing". Missed on "lefty liberal." Definiately missed on "trendy." I've been called "boring, pedantic, and tomboyish," but never "trendy."

If you have bothered the read the post you'd see that the sources for the data comes from Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Freedom House, Human Rights First, and the United Nations.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

What is the E.N. Thompson Forum: Some sort of right wing thinktank.:co
Does'nt seem to be Neo-Con

Video archive of the forum's speeches:

http://enthompson.unl.edu/av_archive.shtml

History:

Over 75 lectures have been provided to the citizens of Nebraska since the Forum was established. Lectures have featured experts on Russia, China, Southeast Asia, the Middle East, Latin America, Africa, and indigenous peoples of the United States and the world. They have taught us about human rights, national security, infectious disease and world food systems. Three Nobel Peace Prize winners, Elie Weisel, Archbishop Desmond Tutu and former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev has spoken at the Forum. Scientists such as Meave Leakey, E.O Wilson and Peter Gleick have talked about prehistory, biology and the environment. Martin Marty and the Rev. Peter Gomes discussed religion and faith. James Woolsey, attorney and former head of the CIA, spoke of national security and the threat of terror. Nebraska senator Bob Kerrey debated Vietnam with former Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara; Nebraska Senator Chuck Hagel and local experts addressed the community with a panel on terrorism shortly after September 11, 2001. The rock star Bono came to talk about AIDS and debt relief for Africa on World AIDS Day in 2002.

Fuck, that wanker Bono is everywhere.

 

[Nigel]

Honey please.... the Chinese can't even make toothpaste that isn't dangerous to humans.

Lets see, you missed on "middle class." Missed on "pro-Right Wing". Missed on "lefty liberal." Definiately missed on "trendy." I've been called "boring, pedantic, and tomboyish," but never "trendy."

If you have bothered the read the post you'd see that the sources for the data comes from Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Freedom House, Human Rights First, and the United Nations.

None of this can be confirmed by any serious or hard evidence.
Apart from Amnesty International, all the others are pro Western, and Pro American Imperialist Foreign Policy.
I'd like to see where Amnesty mentions the massacre of 1.2 Million Tibetans(this is excluding Kuchees and Han Chinese I suppose)
The horrific mistakes of the Cultural Revolution, and crimes of the Gang Of Four have been acknowledged by the PRC, and apologies have been made.
The wrong/revisionist policies of Mao away from Marxism led to major famines(vastly over estimated by Western Propaganda), but hugely progressive to the Feudal Barbarity of the Dalia Lama Clique.
What is E.N. Thompson Forum, what's your involvement in it?

 

[Y_I_Otter]

The imposition of the Seventeen Point Agreement of May, 1951 under threat of violence to the Dalai Lama's emissaries (who didn't have the authority of the Kashag to sign it in any case) and the forged official seal of the government of Tibet the Chinese appended to it, has never been acknowledged, much less been apologised for. Nor has there been any contrition on the part of subsequent governments of the PRC for having broken virtually every one of the 17 points the "agreement" ccontained.

But I suppose our "Nigel" reckons the PRC stole Tibet fair and square.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

What is E.N. Thompson Forum, what's your involvement in it?

Asked and answered on post #49 in this thread. Please read the thread if you intend on posting to it.

 

[Jessiedog]

The horrific mistakes of the Cultural Revolution, and crimes of the Gang Of Four have been acknowledged by the PRC, and apologies have been made.

Not really. There hasn't been any apology, just a rather fudged admission that Mao wasn't perfect.

And yet, lessons have not been learned.

The CCP is currently undertaking one of the most strident crackdowns on the mainland since Tiananmen Square. Immigration, press freedom, freedom of expression and association, freedom to travel, general dissent - are all being severely curtailed.

I guess you don't follow what's happening here that closely.

The wrong/revisionist policies of Mao away from Marxism led to major famines(vastly over estimated by Western Propaganda), but hugely progressive to the Feudal Barbarity of the Dalia Lama Clique.

Mao was a cunt and was directly responsible for the suffering and death of tens of millions of people.

The cultural Revolution was a travesty of epic proportions instigated and perpetuated by Mao in a desperate attempt to retain power. The impact upon the nation was catastrophic and the effects are still being felt.




Woof

 

[Poi E]

I am off to Dharamsala in a couple of weeks and shall keep a careful eye out for the repression of non-Buddhist folks. Must be something in the chanting, or the water.

And fuck yes to what Jessie said. Jesus, anyone who tries to excuse any aspect of the CR is out of their fucking mind.

 

[Nigel]

Not really. There hasn't been any apology, just a rather fudged admission that Mao wasn't perfect.

And yet, lessons have not been learned.

The CCP is currently undertaking one of the most strident crackdowns on the mainland since Tiananmen Square. Immigration, press freedom, freedom of expression and association, freedom to travel, general dissent - are all being severely curtailed.

I guess you don't follow what's happening here that closely.







Mao was a cunt and was directly responsible for the suffering and death of tens of millions of people.

The cultural Revolution was a travesty of epic proportions instigated and perpetuated by Mao in a desperate attempt to retain power. The impact upon the nation was catastrophic and the effects are still being felt.




Woof

Mao pulled China into a world superpower & fought against the Racist Imperialist agenda of Western Capitalism, and the medieval barbarism put forward by a Confusion World Outlook.
For that he is a hero and a great man.

His mistake was not to put the industrial proletariat at the head of the revolution, not come down hard enough on petty middle class/middle class elements such as landlords & diminish the power of the beaurocracy for more democratic control by Workers & Peasants.

The regime needs to push through these Authoritarian measures to stop the balkanisation of the PRC and American Imperialist strategic policies.