Cyclists only break the law cos the rules are crap

[jusali]

Bollocks. I ride a bike how I need to in order to survive, red lights are for motors and fuck the law.

Anyone fucking with my life in a car risks a cracked windscreen and I make sure they see me, whatever it takes.

Drivers and cyclists are NOT equal, simple laws of physics.

An eye for an eye makes everyone blind.
I feel your anger but it just feeds the war......

 

[Termite Man]

Bollocks. I ride a bike how I need to in order to survive, red lights are for motors and fuck the law.

Thats funny because I always stop at red lights and have never had a problem . The only problem I get is the twats who jump the lights and cycle slowly that I then have to overtake ( by pulling out into traffic ) rather than just being able to pass them quickly when the lights change !

 

[Crispy]

Bollocks. I ride a bike how I need to in order to survive, red lights are for motors and fuck the law.

Anyone fucking with my life in a car risks a cracked windscreen and I make sure they see me, whatever it takes.

Jesus christ, I hope I never have to share a road with you

This sort of attitude only fuels the fire. I'm with Lemon Eddy on this one, 100%. You, however, come across as aggressive, uncompromising and arrogant. Exactly the sort of attitude I see displayed in the worst road cyclists.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

Drivers and cyclists are NOT equal, simple laws of physics.

No one is arguing that they are equal. What is clear though is that a cyclist can cause a fatal accident. The most common cause would be by causing another vehicle to swerve, but it has happened from a cyclist colliding with a pedestrian as well:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/7098383.stm
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...ef+dies+after+being+hit+by+cyclist/article.do

So, you have an object which if used recklessly can cause injury or death, and as such there needs to be controls on how people use it.

Frankly, if you really feel that you are only safe on a bike if you ignore red lights and other laws, you have no business cycling.

 

[rover07]

Hmmm....maybe i should start stopping at red lights. Thing is, it breaks your flow/speed, so its kinda natural to go through red lights.

 

[Crispy]

I know what you mean rover - but in the end it's all about attitude. If you take a more relaxed, less hurried attitude to cycling, red lights stop being annoying, and start being welcome breaks or opportunites for a swig of water.

I think the central idea is still a good one though. Cycling on the roads is only safe and fun when there's mutual respect between all road users. Even though cyclists are starting from a bad position, if we don't show some of that respect ourselves, then we'll never get anywhere.

 

[mauvais]

You can do a lot to mitigate the effects of red lights. If you're doing the same commute every day you can learn the light patterns, e.g. you know the light goes green after traffic from the left stops moving. Then you can work out whether you need to stop or just slow down until it changes.

I do lots of things that drivers probably disapprove of, like fairly aggressive filtering, but I always stop for reds. Jumping them just seems explicitly rude, and I don't really want annoyed drivers about to overtake me in a few seconds time.

 

[pk]

Well if I'm in danger the law can get to fuck, and the idea that bikes and cars are equal is a joke.

I was a cycle courier in Central London, the only way to avoid going under some tossers Bentley is to be proactive.

Use lights and pavements where possible, but act crazy and you get noticed and drivers avoid you.

They may not like it, but theyre protected with airbags and shit.

I'm not.

 

[Cobbles]

Hmmm....maybe i should start stopping at red lights. Thing is, it breaks your flow/speed, so its kinda natural to go through red lights.

Correct - traffic lights just impede my flow - Great advice - I'll follow it - in the Hummer.

 

[Crispy]

I was a cycle courier in Central London, the only way to avoid going under some tossers Bentley is to be proactive.

I agree. This does not mean that you should "fuck the law" or "crack windscreens" - that bentley driver will assume that all cyclists are just as arrogant, and therefore treat them all with contempt. You help create the very thing you rail against.

 

[mattie]

Correct - traffic lights just impede my flow - Great advice - I'll follow it - in the Hummer.

Funny that you, of all people, should consider conservation of momentum and energy.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

Use lights and pavements where possible, but act crazy and you get noticed and drivers avoid you.

They may not like it, but theyre protected with airbags and shit.

I'm not.

You're not, but neither are the pedestrians that drivers may hit if they have to swerve to avoid you because you "act crazy". Even if it's just an object or another car that they hit, there's a good chance someone will get hurt. "airbags and shit" are not guaranteed effective.

So effectively you're saying that your concern for your wellbeing justifies you behaving in a way that can see other people hurt or killed. On top of that, you have no trouble behaving in a way likely to antagonize drivers and continue the currently confrontational situation between cyclists and other road users.

 

[mattie]

Well if I'm in danger the law can get to fuck, and the idea that bikes and cars are equal is a joke.

I was a cycle courier in Central London, the only way to avoid going under some tossers Bentley is to be proactive.

Use lights and pavements where possible, but act crazy and you get noticed and drivers avoid you.

They may not like it, but theyre protected with airbags and shit.

I'm not.

Perhaps it might be safer if your movements are predictable?

 

[pk]

You're not, but neither are the pedestrians that drivers may hit if they have to swerve to avoid you because you "act crazy". Even if it's just an object or another car that they hit, there's a good chance someone will get hurt. "airbags and shit" are not guaranteed effective.

So effectively you're saying that your concern for your wellbeing justifies you behaving in a way that can see other people hurt or killed. On top of that, you have no trouble behaving in a way likely to antagonize drivers and continue the currently confrontational situation between cyclists and other road users.

Pedestrians I always stop and give way for. Without fail.
Windscreens get cracked when cunt drivers think they can bully cyclists out of the way.

 

[pk]

Perhaps it might be safer if your movements are predictable?

That is so wrong though!

Ride like a docile vicar and you get overtaken at speed, ride like the cars really are trying to kill you and it wakes dozy fuckwit drivers up a bit.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

Pedestrians I always stop and give way for. Without fail.
Windscreens get cracked when cunt drivers think they can bully cyclists out of the way.

It's rather hard to read your posts, with talk of routinely ignoring the highway code, "acting crazy" and cracking windscreens, and not wonder if you're not provoking some of the driver behaviour that you view as bullying.

By the way, I also imagine that a motorist could have a very handy defence of "I didn't mean to run him over, but when he cracked my windscreen with his [insert object] I panicked and lost control of the car for an instant".

 

[mattie]

That is so wrong though!

Ride like a docile vicar and you get overtaken at speed, ride like the cars really are trying to kill you and it wakes dozy fuckwit drivers up a bit.

Wakes them up, or catches them unawares?

You've heard of driving defensively, yes? How about riding defensively? A key part is to make your movements known to others, and only do things they are likely to see and legislate for.

 

[Crispy]

For me, "riding like the cars are out to kill you" means giving myself plenty of space, not making unpredictable moves, signalling my intentions well in advance, planning my moves well in advance, and riding at a speed and spacing from other vehicles that it is safe to stop from.

 

[T & P]

But the argument is that the law is not quite right in the first place.

Cobbles does have a point though. The law is not quite right, but that is true of all road users. I actually agree there is nothing wrong with a cyclist ignoring a red light on a pedestrian crossing if it is clear there are no pedestrians about.

There is also nothing wrong with cars doing 90mph on the right conditions on a clear motorway. Or 35 mph on certain built up areas at 1 am in the morning when it is also clear there is not one pedestrian on the street.

There is nothing wrong with motorcyclists using the bus lane either. On the contrary, it would save many lives. The list could go on...

 

[Crispy]

Cobbles does have a point though. The law is not quite right, but that is true of all road users. I actually agree there is nothing wrong with a cyclist ignoring a red light on a pedestrian crossing if it is clear there are no pedestrians about.

There is also nothing wrong with cars doing 90mph on the right conditions on a clear motorway. Or 35 mph on certain built up areas at 1 am in the morning when it is also clear there is not one pedestrian on the street.

There is nothing wrong with motorcyclists using the bus lane either. On the contrary, it would save many lives. The list could go on...

Absolutely. I'm not so squeaky clean I stop at red lights on deserted roads. I've routinely driven over 70 on motorways. I cross on the red man all the time. Such blind obedience to the rules is not intelligent. However, road rules are only the slightest bit bendy, and in most cases shouldn't be broken at all.

 

[pk]

It's rather hard to read your posts, with talk of routinely ignoring the highway code, "acting crazy" and cracking windscreens, and not wonder if you're not provoking some of the driver behaviour that you view as bullying.

By the way, I also imagine that a motorist could have a very handy defence of "I didn't mean to run him over, but when he cracked my windscreen with his [insert object] I panicked and lost control of the car for an instant".

Naaa. Catch up with them at traffic lights innit - then speed off the wrong way up a one way street, cackling with laughter.

 

[Crispy]

haha, you're being funny now, haha

 

[Iam]

Hmmm....maybe i should start stopping at red lights. Thing is, it breaks your flow/speed, so its kinda natural to go through red lights.

Awww, your poor lamb.

 

[bigbry]

As with a lot of societies ills at present, the absence of tolerance and empathy (on both sides) is at the heart of much of thise "problem".

Once again (regardless of what some posters on here think) DB talks a lot of sense. This was more or less my thoughts as I was reading the posts in here.

 

[bigbry]

Much as I agree that "cyclists fucking about are perfectly capable of causing cars, or more especially motorcycles, to crash causing damage and injury whilst taking avoiding action" I'm concerned by your mention of registration markings or compulsory insurance.

The former just won't work. Not for an object that gets thieved as often as a bicycle - plates would be faked as a matter of course, and while it's easy enough for police to check that a car plate matches a particular make and model, I don't see it likely that they'll be able to spot a Conic from an On-one anytime soon. The latter is also deeply concerning - how would you balance trying to encourage (for example) children cycling to work, by then creating a huge administrative and financial deterrent for people?

I'd much rather the police enforced the current laws as hard as possible, and cyclists put up with them until we campaign hard enough to get them changed. Cyclists shouldn't make arbitrary decisions over which laws apply. They should follow the highway code, they should stop at reds and in the event that they choose not to they should be hit by a fucking enormous Scania. I am an avid cyclist, both for commuting and leisure, and I appreciate it's a pain in the tits, but that's life. The productive choice is to join a cycling group that lobbies for legislative change, whilst at the same time following the current laws just to undo the various negative stereotypes that cyclists are accused of. Ignoring rules just because you think they shouldn't apply plays right into the hands of all those people who'd prefer to see bikes forced off the road.

That's better !

 

[tommers]

the absence of tolerance and empathy on both sides is at the heart of much of these problems

Once again (regardless of what some posters on here think) DB talks a lot of sense. This was more or less my thoughts as I was reading the posts in here

They should follow the highway code, they should stop at reds and in the event that they choose not to they should be hit by a fucking enormous Scania

That's better !

 

[pk]

 

[Final]

Hmmm....maybe i should start stopping at red lights. Thing is, it breaks your flow/speed, so its kinda natural to go through red lights.

Why cyclists won't stop

This article provides a powerful argument, based on energy
expenditure, why cyclists should not be expected to give-way at side
roads.

http://www.nuttycyclist.co.uk/cycling/files/stop.pdf

The rules are still the rules, just thought I'd link it for discussion purposes.

 

[Wolveryeti]

The way I see it, jaywalking isn't a crime, and thus walking my bike through red lights isn't a crime. I am safer, and more manoevrable jumping lights with my bike, therefore carefully judged red-light jumping on a bike is ok in my book.

 

[christonabike]

That's a good article Final

I try to ride each day to work without stopping, like a game, by judging the lights

There's a couple of sets that I know so well that I can "jump" ie. go through as they are about to change

Someone usually shouts abuse but I know they are just jealous

This post is factually correct