Cyclists never, never, never hurt anyone, Oh No!

[Hi-ASL]

Or doing exactly what you should be doing, in other words.

 

[The Groke]

The rider was obviously just a jerk - an affliction which sadly affects many people, be they cyclists, car drivers, peds or other.

Still - how was this "accidental death" and not manslaughter?

My understanding is manslaughter =

The unlawful killing of one human by another without express or implied intent to do injury.

Which was this surely?


Not to fuel any argument twixt the usual camps here but I wonder; would the charge have been the same if a car driver had mounted the pavement at 25mph and killed the guy?

 

[Orang Utan]

Or doing exactly what you should be doing, in other words.

Cars don't slow down near crowded pavements

 

[two sheds]

Except this time ...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2599595.ece

Ban all cycles! Cyclists Kill!

(Yes, I know it's rare, but just posted for posterity so that when we get the usual claims that cyclists never hurt anyone we can point and laugh ...)

Just as a matter of interest, what are the figures for people killed by motorists every year in the UK versus people killed by cyclists anyone know? I'm off out but had a quick search couldn't see anything (only figures for things like number of cyclists killed by motorists opening their doors without looking, number of pedestrians ploughed into on pavements etc).

 

[Hi-ASL]

Cars don't slow down near crowded pavements

For the most part, no. They all should though.

 

[The Groke]

Cars don't slow down near crowded pavements

That's because we like the killing.

 

[Herbsman.]

The sheer unpredictability of pedestrians is what gets me

It got me a few months back

 

[dessiato]

I did a thread on this sort of thing about two years ago in which I was severely flamed. Apparently, at that time, cyclists all had halo's and the rest of us where at best evil.

It happens that people are killed by other's actions whether in cars, on bikes, or whatever. Anyone injuring another person through this sort of innapropriate behaviour should take responsibility for that action and accept the punishment meted out.

 

[dessiato]

link to my previous thread, it is two years old though, http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=130997

 

[tommers]

It happens that people are killed by other's actions whether in cars, on bikes, or whatever. Anyone injuring another person through this sort of innapropriate behaviour should take responsibility for that action and accept the punishment meted out.

and quite why that needs a 2 page thread to work out is anybody's guess.

 

[detective-boy]

Or doing exactly what you should be doing, in other words.

Just as cyclists should be taking care in the vicinity of large vehicles like buses and lorries ... or do motorists get to use the "Yeah but we shouldn't have to" line as well ...)

 

[8ball]

I'll tell you who was a cyclist.

Hitler.

 

[detective-boy]

My understanding is manslaughter =
The unlawful killing of one human by another without express or implied intent to do injury.

It's way more complicated than that. For a start, there has to be "gross negligence" of such a nature that it should be sanctioned as a serious criminal offence.

This riding was probably considered as manslaughter but, like many car type similar incidents, I am not surprised it failed to reach that very high evidential threshold.

 

[tommers]

I'll tell you who was a cyclist.

Hitler.

and stalin. he used to go through red lights.

 

[Calva dosser]

I wonder how many pedestrians are killed/injured every year by cars mounting the pavement?

I personally, when outside London, prefer to be mown down by a car. It's a better class of manslaughter.

I don't fancy meeting death at the behest of some dog on a string ungodly anarcho when it could be someone more like my Dad in his Volvo.

No doubt the Police feel similarly. I mean there's got to be a bit of give and take when the call comes through to the area car 'Last two pasties in the canteen'.

'Bogster'- or whatever he's called, on his way back from another anti arms-dealing demo probably only has to heat up his bloody lentils.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Detective boy has been hacked, this thread is proof.

 

[Urbanblues]

Bang the bugger up for a long time.

 

[Poi E]

Meh...

Bus, truck, car, motorbike, taxi, lorry and pretty much all drivers annoy me from time to time.

Some bike drivers annoy me but in the main it is the ones that cycle too fast through red lights, weaving to avoid the pedestrians. One twat shot through on the inside of a truck on Thursday and missed me by inches....

What annoys me MORE THAN ANYTHING though is pedestrians!!! Whilst the morons I share the pavement with are unlikely to cause death as a result of their stupidity they should still be punished.

Zero spacial awareness (and these idiots might be allowed to drive too!!!!!)

Slow walkers have a total inability to walk in a straight line

Not sure of directions? Then best to stop in the doorway of a train or at the top/bottom of a flight of stairs during rush hour to decide on where they should amble next.

They like to be armed with bags/suitcases on wheels as they are too lazy to carry a bag. This leads me to believe they are lazy in the bedroom too and as a result will die alone and unloved in Croydon.

If the pavement is wide enough for two people to walk abreast then people walking alone must walk dead centre so nobody can get past. This is perfected by having (probably with the Lighthouse Family) your ipod blaring so you can't hear the words 'excuse me' from the people behind!!!

Again, if the pavement is wide enough for two people to walk abreast then couples or nattering chums MUST walk two abreast and then glare at anyone who walks quicker than their heel dragging amble and needs to get by.

UMBRELLAS!!!!!
These are a fucking irritant of the highest order.... It seems to affect the already lacking grey matter of people carrying them and they adjust the height to average eye level of other pavement users. Also people seem to like the oversize umbrella which disperses the rain water from them onto all other people sharing the pavement.

I could go on but I have stuff to do

Can I just add women who swing their arms excessively whilst walking and whack you in the nuts.

 

[detective-boy]

Detective boy has been hacked, this thread is proof.

No I haven't. Just thought I'd file an example for future reference ...

 

[rutabowa]

i woudl rather be hit by a bike than a car. however i would prefer to not be hit at all.

sometimes i just get overwhelmed by a sense of the total pointlessness and banality of the words that i type/

 

[goldenecitrone]

On closer reading of the story I found this.

The court was told that Messen had been heading for the nearby village of Bugle, on his nephew’s bike, which he said he had never ridden before.

So it wasn't even his bike. He was probably a car-driver who thought riding a bicycle was just like driving a car as fast as you like with scant regard for anyone else on the road. Typical.

 

[rutabowa]

Anyone injuring another person through this sort of innapropriate behaviour should take responsibility for that action and accept the punishment meted out.

i disagree, i think cyclists should have immunity from all crimes up to and including murder.

 

[Radar]

So it wasn't even his bike. He was probably a car-driver who thought riding a bicycle was just like driving a car as fast as you like with scant regard for anyone else on the road. Typical.

Dont see how you can make that assumption on the evidence out there at the moment. Yes, many papers talk of it being his nephew's bike, but I don't see how that leads you to assume he's a driver. In any case, the thisiswilshire web site said it was his bike so there's no consensus. IMO it would be a pretty ballsy non-cyclist who would willfully hit 25 mph heading down a hill.

Messen mounted the kerb as he sped down the hill on his Apollo mountain bike just as Mr Green stepped on to the pavement to fetch his glasses from the house.

To be honest, it makes bugger all difference whether he was a cyclist or not. There's some poor sod in a premature grave because of his actions and his actions alone, and that's not on. Ever!

Just god help the cycling lobby if a kid gets terminally splattered by a rogue cyclist. Then you'll see the long knives out !

Licences and plates anyone ??

 

[Cloud]

There was once an incident on my road where a guy running full sprint hit some kid walking out of a passageway. Kid got a fractured skull as a result.

...and what kind of nutcase does 25 mph on a pavement with drives and stuff around? On a personal safety level, even if you are an inconsiderent cunt, you should know the dangers involved?

Crazy unfortunate accident, just hope I dont get a ticket or some heckles when I take the kids out this weekend and there is no fucking chance in the world we are riding on the roads.

 

[bluestreak]

i guess it's about scale really.

if, say, 30 people a year are killed by cyclists every year, and 3000 are killed by cars, we can still see where the problem is quite easily.

 

[detective-boy]

He was probably a car-driver ....

Fabulous!

We find an example of a "murdering scumbag cyclist" ((c) Numerous anti-car rant thread posters) ... and the "All Cyclists are actually the Archangel Gabriel" lobby try to turn them into a car driver to explain their twattishness!!!

Because every proper cyclist has never driven a car, have they?

And every car driver has never ridden a cycle, have they?

 

[fredfelt]

In another paper it reported he was cycling an "Appolo" bike.

Frankly I'm quite shocked he managed to get such a shit bike up to 25 MPH wihout it falling apart first.

Car driver / Cyclist - more like "murdering idiot scumbag!"

 

[co-op]

i guess it's about scale really.

if, say, 30 people a year are killed by cyclists every year, and 3000 are killed by cars, we can still see where the problem is quite easily.

I know you are arguing hypothetically but fatalities caused by cyclists are way way lower than that. I have this figure (from Hansard, PQ answered 16 Jan 2006) that in the 5 years between 2000 and 2004 inclusive, not a single pedestrian was killed in the UK as a consequence of being in collision with a cyclist riding on a footway. Unfortunately the link that I copied doesn't seem to be active now, but I'm sure anyone who wants can check this out. Generally there seem to be between 0 and 2 such deaths/killings, average well under 1.

From memory about 1100 pedestrians and cyclists are killed per year by motorists of one sort or another, but I've never checked out the on-pavement figure.

 

[goldenecitrone]

We find an example of a "murdering scumbag cyclist" ((c) Numerous anti-car rant thread posters) ... and the "All Cyclists are actually the Archangel Gabriel" lobby try to turn them into a car driver to explain their twattishness!!!

But you don't know that he was a cyclist. It sounds from the story that he had no idea about bikes and grabbed his nephew's bike only as he didn't have his white van parked nearby.

 

[detective-boy]

But you don't know that he was a cyclist. It sounds from the story that he had no idea about bikes and grabbed his nephew's bike only as he didn't have his white van parked nearby.

You really don't get it, do you!

Even when confronted by twattishness of the first order by some bloke on a bike, you try and find some excuse just so that you don't have to accept a simple fact:

Some cyclists are twats some of the time.

Just like every other group of road users.