Cyclists - Look out for pigs before shooting a red light

[moon]

Noticed lots of the oxygen-thieving cunts pulling people over on Theobalds road today and issuing them with penalty notices. Probably to coincide with the new start of term, and possibly as the start of a campaign type thing.

Well apparently there was a nasty accident there today, HGV ran into someone at the juntion, was described as the person on the road in two parts with lots of blood. We think it was a cyclist but this is as yet unconfirmed .

Be careful out there people

 

[Boycey]

shit

 

[moon]

News story here
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSW7W-dMEw

 

[moon]

From bikeradar

Hi,
The Evening Standard did an article on lorry vs cycle crashes last week
http://tinyurl.com/44mnlv

They also published my letter on the subject yesterday. We have been aware that over half of cyclists deaths in London result from crashes with HGVs, this has been true for decades, this year seems to be worse than most.

Cycle training is definitely part of the answer. The new 'National Standards' training is excellent, you can get subsidised training through many London boroughs or by the the training organisations. For more details see:
http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=175
and
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/9065.aspx
Note that not all the boroughs offer training to National Standards, if they don't do that then don't bother with them.

All cyclists should be aware that the real danger comes from a lorry that is a long way out from the side of the road, even in the outside lane. These are the ones that cut across very quickly. Often there appears to be loads of space, squeezing up a narrow gap is not as risky as ignoring the lorry that leaves a wider gap.

As far as we can tell from the limited research into how these crashes happen, about half the deaths happen when the lorry overtakes a cyclist, then slows and turns left across the cyclist who is continuing at a steady rate. It seems that very experienced cyclists are just as much at risk as are the new riders.

As a result of the recent fatalities and the ongoing high level of risk to cyclists from HGVs the London Cycling Campaign is calling for urgent action from the Mayor and Transport for London.

1. An emergency safety awareness campaign is required to ensure every HGV driver takes the utmost care to protect the rapidly increasing number of cyclists on our roads.

2. The Met Police's campaign to educate cyclists about HGV danger should be greatly increased.

3. Every lorry in London should have a full set of the latest safety mirrors, every lorry should have a warning sign saying 'cyclists - beware of passing this vehicle on the inside', so both drivers and cyclists are encouraged to take extra care.

4. All lorry operators tendering for public sector contracts should be signed up to the Freight Operators Recognition Scheme


- Charlie
London Cycling Campaign

 

[turing test]

Here is the US many lights are car activated. Back in Atlanta about half were, and here in Bumfuck Texas almost all are. Therefore, at least in theory, you can jump such a light without fear of a ticket when there is no car to trip the light.

Is this the case in the UK?

 

[mauvais]

Used to be, isn't now.

Most lights use induction circuits - basically metal detectors - as strips in the road, and these pick up bikes. I think a few use other kinds of sensors, and they will too.

In any case, you could only argue that when there's no cars around. In most of the UK that's very late at night, and in London often never.

 

[nino_savatte]

Cycle training is definitely part of the answer. The new 'National Standards' training is excellent, you can get subsidised training through many London boroughs or by the the training organisations. For more details see:
http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=175
and
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/9065.aspx
Note that not all the boroughs offer training to National Standards, if they don't do that then don't bother with them.

I am a cycling instructor who has been trained to the national standard. If anyone is interested, PM me...

 

[Cobbles]

Or, as an alternative option, cyclists could simply not jump the lights at a busy junction.

Or, they could stay within the law and never "jump" a red light at all.

 

[Crispy]

Or, they could stay within the law and never "jump" a red light at all.

You're only allowed to say that if you never 'cross' the road on a red man

 

[gentlegreen]

You're only allowed to say that if you never 'cross' the road on a red man

or race the amber, or break the speed limit (or the actual reasonable speed for driving down side roads), or get impatient behind slower road users .....

 

[Herbsman.]

What needs to happen is that cars get banned from city centres altogether. Only buses and delivery vehicles should be allowed, at a maximum of 20mph. Zebra crossings for peds everyfuckingwhere. Or maybe even bridges. City life would be fucking ace.

 

[jusali]

I cycle every day and stop at red lights. 4 cyclists ploughed past me today at one of the red lights. So in that queue of traffic behind most motorists would conclude that despite one cyclist stopped at the red light 4/5ths of cyclists jump red lights.
I don't know why I bother

 

[Crispy]

I cycle every day and stop at red lights. 4 cyclists ploughed past me today at one of the red lights. So in that queue of traffic behind most motorists would conclude that despite one cyclist stopped at the red light 4/5ths of cyclists jump red lights.
I don't know why I bother

I know what you mean

 

[Wolveryeti]

I shoot reds when I'm not making a nuisance of myself by doing so, and I can't see what the opinion of queuing drivers has to do with it. It's not like they're any worse off because of my behaviour...

 

[Crispy]

I shoot reds when I'm not making a nuisance of myself by doing so, and I can't see what the opinion of queuing drivers has to do with it. It's not like they're any worse off because of my behaviour...

It causes resentment. I might be pissing in the wind, but I'd like to think that cultivating an atmosphere of mutual respect on the roads leads to a more pleasant time for everyone.

 

[Callie]

I shoot reds when I'm not making a nuisance of myself by doing so

Im not convinced that you should be the one to decide if you're making a nuisance of yourself or not.

How do you feel about car drivers that take the same attitude?

 

[Wolveryeti]

It causes resentment. I might be pissing in the wind, but I'd like to think that cultivating an atmosphere of mutual respect on the roads leads to a more pleasant time for everyone.

I genuinely don't see how respect for drivers even enters the equation in the example I used. I'm not adding any time onto their journey, I'm not doing anything to intentionally piss them off. If anything, I'm doing them a favour, by not crowding into a group that is always in front of the traffic when it is stopped at lights as far as I can see, and slows it down when the lights do change (until the cyclists resolve into single file again)...

When I see someone doing something like this that doesn't harm me, I don't generally feel angry, and when I do, I always feel a bit silly afterwards. By the same token this type of resentment arising in others moves me not one bit.

 

[Wolveryeti]

Im not convinced that you should be the one to decide if you're making a nuisance of yourself or not.

Indulge me. I challenge anyone to explain how shooting a red where there aren't any pedestrians in range and traffic has stopped is making a nuisance of myself.

 

[Crispy]

I'm not adding any time onto their journey, I'm not doing anything to intentionally piss them off. If anything, I'm doing them a favour

All true. But it's all about perception isn't it?

 

[Termite Man]

All true. But it's all about perception isn't it?

I agree 100% with crispy on this one !

 

[gentlegreen]

Indulge me. I challenge anyone to explain how shooting a red where there aren't any pedestrians in range and traffic has stopped is making a nuisance of myself.

It must be a very odd kind of traffic light down your way - I have to wait for the cars to finish going through on amber before I can get across ...

 

[Jazzz]

Here's the question. If 20% of London's traffic could, at a stroke, change from cars that stop at reds to bicycles that jump them, would that be a good change?

 

[Wolveryeti]

It must be a very odd kind of traffic light down your way - I have to wait for the cars to finish going through on amber before I can get across ...

A very common example of this is a crossroads with pedestrian crossings where the green man lights up and all traffic stops, although there aren't any peds around.

 

[Wolveryeti]

All true. But it's all about perception isn't it?

I fear if I was to start on a general policy of pacifying people's irrational desire to get angry at things, that it would be a very long list of things I'd have to give up indeed.

 

[Herbsman.]

All true. But it's all about perception isn't it?

My perception right now is that anyone who drives is a cunt. Even me on the rare occasions that I drive.

Like pretty much every day of the year I didn't do anything wrong today, yet I still got boshed to the floor by a Land Rover driver, despite the fact that I had priority and she should have given way. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but each time this kind of thing happens I care less and less about whether cyclists jump reds or not. As long as there are no cars coming or peds crossing I don't give a toss whether they wait or go. You can follow all the rules on your bike, but regardless, some cunt will still disregard you and send your arse to the tarmac, or worse, send your life into nonexistence.

This doesn't mean that I'm going to start going through red lights tomorrow in protest, but it means that I'll give a shit about the public's perception of cyclists when all drivers start giving a shit about cyclists' safety.

I'm sure it's only a tiny minority of drivers who drive like cunts, but that's all it takes to kill a cyclist.

Maybe I should just fuck off to Amsterdam or Copenhagen. I'd be a lot happier there.

 

[Herbsman.]

Tony, my fellow workmate, a motorbike courier, recently witnessed a cyclist get arse-rammed while waiting at a red light which he could have gone through safely, by some fuckwit motorist. He suffered facial cuts and bruises and his bike was a write-off. Yet if that cyclist had gone through the light, or hopped onto the pavement and gone across that way, he would have been in the wrong, legally and in the opinion of a lot of people, morally. I find that quite ironic.

I'm not putting that forth as an argument for going through reds, but as an argument against the idea that stopping for red is inherently safe.

 

[harpo]

I saw a cyclist having an umbrella shoved in his spokes recently for cutting up a ped on a zebra crossing. I bet he was sorry he was in such a hurry.

Anyway, marshalls on the Regents canal towpath now. About time, the place is a deathtrap.

 

[gentlegreen]

Tony, my fellow workmate, a motorbike courier, recently witnessed a cyclist get arse-rammed while waiting at a red light which he could have gone through safely, by some fuckwit motorist. He suffered facial cuts and bruises and his bike was a write-off. Yet if that cyclist had gone through the light, or hopped onto the pavement and gone across that way, he would have been in the wrong, legally and in the opinion of a lot of people, morally. I find that quite ironic.

I'm not putting that forth as an argument for going through reds, but as an argument against the idea that stopping for red is inherently safe.

The trick is to be aware of what the other people around you are doing long before the lights, and assume they're incompetent sociopaths. Not every cyclist is trying to beat a deadline.

 

[Termite Man]

My perception right now is that anyone who drives is a cunt. Even me on the rare occasions that I drive.

Like pretty much every day of the year I didn't do anything wrong today, yet I still got boshed to the floor by a Land Rover driver, despite the fact that I had priority and she should have given way. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but each time this kind of thing happens I care less and less about whether cyclists jump reds or not. As long as there are no cars coming or peds crossing I don't give a toss whether they wait or go. You can follow all the rules on your bike, but regardless, some cunt will still disregard you and send your arse to the tarmac, or worse, send your life into nonexistence.

maybe that driver had been pissedoff by another cyclist a couple of minutes earlier and made an irritational decision to "get even" so disregarded your safety . Car drivers may be in a large metalbox but they are still human and prone to irrational behaviour . The whole idea of sticking to the rules of the road is so the trigger for the dangerous irrational behaviour can be reduced !

eta - hope you and your bike are ok

 

[Boycey]

maybe that driver had been pissedoff by another cyclist a couple of minutes earlier and made an irritational decision to "get even" so disregarded your safety . Car drivers may be in a large metalbox but they are still human and prone to irrational behaviour . The whole idea of sticking to the rules of the road is so the trigger for the dangerous irrational behaviour can be reduced !

eta - hope you and your bike are ok

the driver in question is clearly a fucking nutjob- why even try to explain it? assault with a deadly weapon is a bit more than "irrational behavior".