Cyclist killed in Hackney

[nino_savatte]

Harlow new town, as bad as it is, has fantastic cycle paths as they used the old country lanes that previously joined up the villages. This, as far as I am aware, was part of the original town plan - which I assume is the saem for much of rebuilt Germany.

It's hard to see how something equivalent could be done in London as it would be retrospective.

Stevenage too...it's about the only good thing about the town as it happens.

When most cycle lanes are built in London, they are often built without the consultation of cyclists and cycling groups - hence the number of useless cycle paths, not only in London, but around the country.

But who came up with the advisory cycle lane idea? Whoever came up with it should be shot.

 

[Kanda]

Milton Keynes probably has one of the best cycle ways in the country, be fucked if I'm gonna live back there though!!

It's not tied to the roads at all.

 

[mattie]

Milton Keynes probably has one of the best cycle ways in the country, be fucked if I'm gonna live back there though!!

It's not tied to the roads at all.

I suspect it followed the Harlow approach of using pre-existing lanes for cycle tracks, thus ensuring they go somewhere useful, that they actually link up and that they are not tack-ons to the road system.

Works brilliantly, but when I used them (many years ago to get to school and college) they were practically empty. Which, of course, was also brilliant for me!

 

[Spion]

Well this is true - the only accident i had was another cyclist piling into the back of me cause I'd stopped at some red lights.. Some drivers politely told him to fuck off when he started having a go at me. Its a funny old world.

How does one do that exactly?

 

[Kanda]

How does one do that exactly?

Without the use of D-Locks

 

[Hollis]

Without the use of D-Locks

Basically. yes.

 

[Spion]

I had a sort of 'Would you mind awfully - how can I put this? - fucking orf, old chap' thing in mind

 

[tommers]

some thoughts after reading this thread...

that tribute is very moving.

cobbles being criticised for being anti-driver made me chuckle.

all this stuff about motorists this, cyclists that... it misses the point. the point is that some people are bad road users. doesn't really matter what form of transport they use. the problem isn't "motorists"... it's "somebody who doesn't drive a car properly with due care and attention", the problem isn't "cyclists"... it's "somebody who has no road sense, patience or care when cycling". The only thing that saying "bloody car drivers don't know how to drive" achieves is that it alienates and polarises people into groups.

cycle lanes are the devil's work.

oh, and I was sat behind a lorry turning left at some lights this morning and I decided to sit and wait for it to move off rather than undertake it on its blind spot and risk the lights changing. No thanks.

carry on.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

There's a really great cylce lane next to kew gardens.... that cars can park on

It might as well not be there. Fat waste of money.

 

[nino_savatte]

There's a really great cylce lane next to kew gardens.... that cars can park on

It might as well not be there. Fat waste of money.

I know the one you mean and I complained to the council about it. There's even a sign that clearly says 8am to 6pm Monday to Sunday.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Also when they dont extend the road and just paint the cycle lane onto it. It just makes it more dangerous for drivers bacuse they swerve to avoid oncoming cars.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

intent to kill? i don't know if my words were accurate. hell, i don't care. these are my values. drivers should be held responsible for their actions.

i'm a driver too. i take extra caution on busy roads, staying alert in case a dumb kid jumps out or if a cyclist makes a silly manovere. i take full responsibilty for my actions. if i did kill someone then that would be murder - intentional or not.

huh you take extra caution do you ... and that therefore negaties everyone elses responsiblites becuase you're taking care... does it... if you kill someone there could be a number of reasons for that... what about tube drivers who hit people on the tracks are they murders too in your eyes...

bollix ill thought out teenage angst logic here...

if the driver is to blame throw away the key for sure, but let's wait for evidence that this is the case first eh... rather than havign them hung before the corpse is cold...

wannbie viglantiy one dimesion thinkers need not apply for extended life rights IMO...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Is there any actual evidence for this theory - I can see it could be true in some instances.. - but take for example Holloway Road/Green Lanes etc.. there's so much noise and traffic anyway that I can't see how doubling the overall noise of vehicles (say), is going to make it any safer..

only anicdotal haven't looked for any stats or even am aware of any being done... all i know is my car is(well was it's sound a bit rough atm) very quite and has a low end frequence purring noise which in most street level noise situations is hard to hear the amount of times i have been stopped waitng for the pedestrain to notice that they have walked into my path not looking and clearly not beign prewarned by the sound of the car etheir and have had them turn or walk into the bumper and turn round and look absolutely fridgid with fear for the breifest of seconds before usually becoming quite irate at me having tha audcaity to have not run them over.... thinking that i have just pulled up... etc...

there can be little other explaination for why people would willingly walk into cars or traffic other than they are relying on their perception of speed as is indicated by noise. It's something we are conditioned by from an early age is to asccoiate noise with speed.

another example when my old morris traveller's exaust bracket fell off and it in effect had a straight through exaust people thought it was going faster than it was because of the sound, this is evidenced also by the number of max power type kevs who stick the cherry bomb noise exausts on their cars (dispite the fact that due to the venturi effect it actually slows them down and makes them much less fuel efficent...) to make them sound more powerful and therefore faster...

Hear a motor bike accelerate we assume speed. we make that connection on nearly all levels of humantiy whether it's basic or conditioned i'm not sure (id say conditioned).

It stands to reason that road accidents have increased as cars have gotten quiter whether this is afactor of mass industrailiseation leading to larger production levels of cars coupled with a disintigration of people willing to have any green cross code type sense about roads in general or whether it's in reality that these cars are no longer giving the auditory warnings they once did (with in our lifetimes as well)

It'd be intresting to know as to whether she know of any stuides about the number of disabled partially sighted or deaf people are inviolved in road accidents and whether this was a contributory factor this would probably give a clear indicator of whether this was actually more than susposition on my part...

 

[tommers]

only anicdotal haven't looked for any stats or even am aware of any being done... all i know is my car is(well was it's sound a bit rough atm) very quite and has a low end frequence purring noise which in most street level noise situations is hard to hear the amount of times i have been stopped waitng for the pedestrain to notice that they have walked into my path not looking and clearly not beign prewarned by the sound of the car etheir and have had them turn or walk into the bumper and turn round and look absolutely fridgid with fear for the breifest of seconds before usually becoming quite irate at me having tha audcaity to have not run them over.... thinking that i have just pulled up... etc...

this happens to cyclists all the time. people can't hear anything so they step out without looking.

 

[Cobbles]

"To be accurate, it wasn't the lorry that killed, it was the driver's negligence."

Evidence for this? The cyclist may have been pissed for all we know? Talk about biased shite, don't ever serve on a jury eh?

Oh come now, you don't want to take your life in your hands by suggesting that a cyclist could ever be responsible for an accident do you?

Indeed, the cyclist may have been hopelessly incompetent/foolhardy/drunk/suicidal but those seem less likely in this instance.

I was only trying to stem the tide of "all powered vehicles are instruments of death spawned by Satan" type comments that usually crop up.

 

[catrina]

this happens to cyclists all the time. people can't hear anything so they step out without looking.

Just today, I was cycling in a rare cycle lane that is set apart from the main road by a wall (underneath a tunnel), and there is a MASSIVE pavement for pedestrians next to it. Like 5 meters wide at least.

A pedestrian was walking in the cycle lane, which is green (indicating it's a cycle lane) and has pictures of cyclists painted the whole way down it, and is carved out of the pavement, giving even further indication it is a distinct path.

I started dinging my bell way way in advance, then I started yelling 'excuse me' 'cyclist behind'. I finally had to stop just short of knocking her over.

She turned around looking at me aghast, and of course she had headphones on, wasn't paying attention in the slightest.

Why do people do this? Do we need lessons on how to be a pedestrian as well?

(I think headphones are every bit as dangerous as mobile phones when operating machinery and bicycles. If pedestrians didn't J-walk and used the pavement, then headphones should be perfectly fine, but they don't stick to their designated area much so it often is a problem for them as well).

 

[Hollis]

I was only trying to stem the tide of "all powered vehicles are instruments of death spawned by Satan" type comments that usually crop up.

Yeah well.. they basically are. Ban them all! Basic private vehicle ownership to be abolished within the M25. A chain of park and ride carparks to be built around the M25. A massive increase in cheap and reliable minicabs to occur - driver shortage to be met be Bulgarian and Rumanian immigrants!!!

Its that simple!!!!

Think outside the box maaan!

 

[catrina]

Originally Posted by Cobbles
I was only trying to stem the tide of "all powered vehicles are instruments of death spawned by Satan" type comments that usually crop up.

I don't necessarily agree with Hollis on all his points, but I certainly agree with this statement. While cars are incredibly convenient, they are motorized vehicles with the power to kill. People who operate them should treat them with the respect they deserve. Unfortunately we've become so reliant on them as a society that we've placed convenience over safety.

See how few air accidents there are compared to road accidents? Even though putting a multi-ton bullet of speeding metal partially alight through the air is theoretically more dangerous, people operating them are highly trained, highly skilled, and they respect the fact that if they screw up, every single person on there with them is going to die.

A lorry driver isn't much different. They are more often than not at the cause of fatal accidents simply because theyr'e so huge, they can't see and they can't stop them in time.

 

[Cobbles]

I don't necessarily agree with Hollis on all his points, but I certainly agree with this statement. While cars are incredibly convenient, they are motorized vehicles with the power to kill. People who operate them should treat them with the respect they deserve. Unfortunately we've become so reliant on them as a society that we've placed convenience over safety.

Meanwhile, as there are were more accidents leading to fatalaties in the home per annum than on the roads. houses were banned by the Government and caves were substituted.

Plans for next year involve the banning of "all sharp things" as well as weighty blunt objects, together with mandatory 2 year training courses in unfloding deckchairs safely.

 

[moose]

A cyclist has more of a right to be on the road than cars or lorries which do not, in fact, have any right to be there at all.

What??? How does that work then? I'll look out for washing machines and pallets of food being delivered by bicycle, then, shall I?
Nutter.

 

[WouldBe]

Why do people do this? Do we need lessons on how to be a pedestrian as well?

Some people clearly do.

My dad nearly ran a group of teenagers over the other day. They were stood chatting in the middle of the road even though there was plenty of room to stand on the pavement.

 

[Nixon]

That's really awful .I must admit although I do ride a bike and i've been raised around them,im still pretty scared about riding on the roads of London.My dad had a really bad accident due to another motorist when he was eighteen in Central.He still rides everywhere but he lost his two front teeth due to it (thank god for crowns)

I think it's shit that cyclists don't get the respect that they should do on the roads,especially with all this global warming from petrol vehicles.The government are encouraging people to ride with TFL,but they aren't making it any safer for us.It's jarring and makes me sad to ride,because I love riding my bike and I hate feeling like I might get fucking hit by an idiot driver

 

[robotsimon]

What??? How does that work then? I'll look out for washing machines and pallets of food being delivered by bicycle, then, shall I?
Nutter.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be there but, legally, cyclists (and pedestrians and horse riders) have a right to be on the road, drivers are there by license - which can be taken away. Trufax.

 

[Cobbles]

I'm not saying they shouldn't be there but, legally, cyclists (and pedestrians and horse riders) have a right to be on the road, drivers are there by license - which can be taken away. Trufax.

It's high time that all road users were properly licensed, taxed and insured.

Dear old Ken seems to be heading towards this for bicycles - whaheeeeey.

 

[lighterthief]

It's high time that all road users were properly licensed, taxed and insured.

Dear old Ken seems to be heading towards this for bicycles - whaheeeeey.

Stop stirring!

I think that compulsory 3rd party insurance is probably not a bad idea for cyclists. But taxing and licensing? Nah. We need to be removing barriers to people cycling, not erecting them.

 

[sir.clip]

I wonder whether they should paint a red bicycle on the road wherever a cyclist is killed. Slightly morbid, perhaps, but it might help remind other vehicles that cyclists are very vulnerable on the roads - and remind cyclists to be careful.

This is a good Idea.............

 

[sir.clip]

I'm not sure it is a "fact of life" - I see far too many cyclists who do not ride at all defensively and who, through ignorance or impatience, put themselves in extremely dangerous situations (e.g. squeezing up the inside of lorries stationary at traffic lights, risking the lights changing and the lorry moving off whilst they are in the danger zone).

I would not say that cyclists should have to ride in such a manner as to make up for the inadequacies of other road users (any more than I believe motorcyclists should) but there is definitely scope for some to improve their defensive riding strategies, the most important of which is looking and thinking ahead (in time and space) and predicting potential danger before it arises.

Yeh whatever.....

 

[sir.clip]

are you not maybe exagerating a little bit here?

I live in London & cycle aprox 15-30 miles a day.. In 10 years I have been hit 3 times by the motor vehicles that share the road. I have not hit anything other than the curb.

All I can say is try it yourself.

Try to cycle around central london & the outskirts of london at rush hour. morning or afternoon.

Better yet try and negotiate a safe passage with out once feeling vunrable to the motorvehicles that surround you.

Some of my favourite adrenalin spots are.
elephant & castle roundabout.
streatham hill into brixton hill.
old street roundabout.
Anywhere in bow or stratford.
woolworth road.
Gypsy hill.


These spots are fucking dangerous.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Stop stirring!

I think that compulsory 3rd party insurance is probably not a bad idea for cyclists. But taxing and licensing? Nah. We need to be removing barriers to people cycling, not erecting them.

what if you replaced the word cycling with driving would that statement sound so reasonable then?

at least if all road users were taxed and insured it would suddenly force a culture of responsiblity on people for fear of increasing their premiums...

 

[sir.clip]

force a culture of responsiblity on people for fear of increasing their premiums...

I dont want people to live in a culture of responsibility based on fear..
Its not very pleasent.
like the whole Idea that the motorvehicle is good for humans & the planet earth..
Just Try sticking your mouth round the exhaust pipe any sucking in that goodness... Try a honda cause I hear thoose vehicles are like really good for you.
I belive most car users share this ideology, because they would never want to give up there investment into a product that kills & destroys the very essence of life.. They fail to see that by driving every where they are just causing conjestion & noise & polution on all the other people around the planet. cars get manufactured every day, new models better than the model last year.
Better safty incase you hit another car. Think about that.. Beter for YOU as an individual If you hit another Individual.. Its sick......

Cars & motor vehicles Are bad.. Aint no two ways about it.