lighterthief
Well-Known Member
True enough. I understand the police have not apportioned blame at this point. Still sad, though.TopCat said:
Cyclist killed in Hackney
- Thread starter lighterthief
- Start date
TopCat
Putin fanboy
lighterthief said:
I agree it's bloody awful.
But I have seen enough dangerous behaviour by cyclists to know you should not assume they are always blameless.
Yesterday on the A23 I watched a cyclist change lanes simply after sticking her arm out, she had no mirror and did not look. She simply put her arm out and moved across. The van that locked up all it's brakes avoiding her did well in my opinion.
CharlieAddict
nekomimi rocks!!!
TopCat said:Murdering bastard? Evidence?
a lorry driver hits a cyclist in hackney. and kills her.
CharlieAddict
nekomimi rocks!!!
TopCat said:
intent to kill? i don't know if my words were accurate. hell, i don't care. these are my values. drivers should be held responsible for their actions.
i'm a driver too. i take extra caution on busy roads, staying alert in case a dumb kid jumps out or if a cyclist makes a silly manovere. i take full responsibilty for my actions. if i did kill someone then that would be murder - intentional or not.
fredfelt
Mostly unknown member
Fortunatley the cyclist was not wearing an IPod - if she was then people would automaticlly attribute blame on the cyclist.
In Holland it is understood and accepted in Law that cyclists may be unpredictible and if an accident occures the damage is done by the vehicle. Therefore the onus of responsibility is on the driver. This may be part of the reason why drivers are generally cautions around bikes and treat them with more respect then they do over here.
While living in Holland I never had a problem with a car / lorry overtaking and turning (right) in front of me. However in England this (turning left) happens regularly.
The only solution I've found is to take up most of the lane so the vehicle has to do a manuver to overtake otherwise ofton they just glide past without giving any room or even seemingly realising that you exist.
In Holland it is understood and accepted in Law that cyclists may be unpredictible and if an accident occures the damage is done by the vehicle. Therefore the onus of responsibility is on the driver. This may be part of the reason why drivers are generally cautions around bikes and treat them with more respect then they do over here.
While living in Holland I never had a problem with a car / lorry overtaking and turning (right) in front of me. However in England this (turning left) happens regularly.
The only solution I've found is to take up most of the lane so the vehicle has to do a manuver to overtake otherwise ofton they just glide past without giving any room or even seemingly realising that you exist.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
I'm not sure that makes sense.CharlieAddict said:
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
TopCat said:
You're right. In all probability it was suicide. I bet she was wearing a bomb, too.
CharlieAddict
nekomimi rocks!!!
Donna Ferentes said:
yes, you'e right.
if i did knock someone over and they died, it'll be murder in my books.
CharlieAddict
nekomimi rocks!!!
TopCat said:
and i said,
CharlieAddict said:
lights.out.london
Black Flag
I don't ride in London anymore.
When I did, each time I was knocked/hit/slammed into...I used my D-lock without pity or mercy. Headlights, windscreens, doors, paint work. Didn't give a fuck and don't regret it one little bit.
Not interested in debating the morality of violence against property (vehicles). That's how it was. If I ride in town again, that's how it'll be. End of.
Poor woman. What a way to die. Horrid.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
So I take it there's no point in arguing about how such an approach might be counter-productive? I'd be wasting my time, would that be right?lightsoutlondon said:
I don't ride in London anymore.
When I did, each time I was knocked/hit/slammed into...I used my D-lock without pity or mercy. Headlights, windscreens, doors, paint work. Didn't give a fuck and don't regret it one little bit.
Not interested in debating the morality of violence against property (vehicles). That's how it was. If I ride in town again, that's how it'll be. End of.
Poor woman. What a way to die. Horrid.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
sir.clip said:
My sentiments exactly.
I was cycling over kew bridge the other day coming back from richmond park to hanger lane with my boyfreind and was complelty ingored an nearly knocked of my bike 3 times. once by some twant in an audi
once by a twunt in a BMW and once by some prat in a souped up ford escort all within a matter of minuts.I was so pissed off that I had to get off my bike and clam down.
then my chain fell off by gunnesbury park. I threw my bike on the floor and dint move for 15 minutes.
Straw that broke the camels back.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
I believe it is, though I'm not entirely sure. The ex-police chap should be able to tell us. I have a feeling, for instance, that if you do something reckless that obviously involved great risk of death to somebody, and you were trying to hurt them (e.g. if you hit them repeatedly with a baseball bat) then that might constitute murder even if you didn't actually intend to kill them.Spion said:
lighterthief
Well-Known Member
I was cycling out that way this morning anyway so I took my camera along.
Here's where the accident happened. Note that the delineated cycle lane ends abruptly before the junction. Up ahead, on the traffic island, you can just make out the floral tributes that have been laid. Also note the car turning right (into Tesco's carpark) - this line of traffic would have been what the lorry (presumably) swerved left to avoid.
Looking back in the opposite direction. Note lorry zooming past at speed
And finally, a note left by a friend:
Dear Brixton,
Thank you for such special times and for all your warmth, heart and energy. May your tires never puncture and the wind be always at your back. One as beautiful and kind is already deeply missed.
Here's where the accident happened. Note that the delineated cycle lane ends abruptly before the junction. Up ahead, on the traffic island, you can just make out the floral tributes that have been laid. Also note the car turning right (into Tesco's carpark) - this line of traffic would have been what the lorry (presumably) swerved left to avoid.
Looking back in the opposite direction. Note lorry zooming past at speed
And finally, a note left by a friend:
Dear Brixton,
Thank you for such special times and for all your warmth, heart and energy. May your tires never puncture and the wind be always at your back. One as beautiful and kind is already deeply missed.
Kanda said:
I agree, but for this to work, people in cars need to think the same.
But instead, they often scoot up behind you and intimidate you for holding them up all of 3 seconds. As someone said, people with motor vehicles seem to think that they have priority on the roads.
You could begin to change this attitude if this was made a part of the driving tests, and there was actually some marginal enforcement of traffic laws in this city (even against cyclists cycling poorly). I have never once seen anybody pulled over for a traffic violation in my 5 years here.
I think something as simple as a 6 month campaign of shocking TV adverts, ticketing, and signs up saying 'motorists you do not have the right of way' might even make people pay attention just that little bit more.
In my personal experience, after hearing something like this, I will be extremely alert for the next week, but after that it starts to fade from memory and I worry about whether I'm on time to work. I think we (cyclists, motorists and pedestrians) need to be constantly reminded, in changing ways, about the dangers we face.
In the US, families (not the state) often put crosses and flowers up where someone was killed on the highway. I'm not really a fan of the religious aspect of this, but it definitely makes you slow down.
This is so sad, though.
she was just going to work, and then she's gone.And also, what about the idea of having separate roads recommended for cyclists and lorries? It just seems that the two will never mix. The road she was travelling down sounds like it was a blue route on the London cycling map, can't they mark routes lorries use regularly with their own colour so cyclists know to avoid them?
lighterthief
Well-Known Member
It is.catrina said:
fredfelt
Mostly unknown member
For someone to drive a vehicle it should be law for someone to walk in front with a red flag warning others of the imenent danger.
3,000 people die every year as a result of people driving cars. Anyone know any other activity that has an acceptible risk of 3,000 people every year?
3,000 people die every year as a result of people driving cars. Anyone know any other activity that has an acceptible risk of 3,000 people every year?
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Protecting Middle East oil supplies?BigPhil said:
mattie
missing in inaction
TopCat said:
Harlow new town, as bad as it is, has fantastic cycle paths as they used the old country lanes that previously joined up the villages. This, as far as I am aware, was part of the original town plan - which I assume is the saem for much of rebuilt Germany.
It's hard to see how something equivalent could be done in London as it would be retrospective.
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