Cycling in the Netherlands. Britain's shame.

[Idaho]

This common British mindset of 'let's drive the kids one mile to school' is fucking ridiculous and shameful.

Taking children to school in the car isn't just out of laziness. Much of it is to do with having to get to work quickly afterwards. Turning the UK into a nation half as cycle friendly as the Netherlands will require more changes to our society at more levels than one might imagine.

 

[editor]

Taking children to school in the car isn't just out of laziness. Much of it is to do with having to get to work quickly afterwards.

With so many lazy cunt school-run cars clogging up the streets, I'm not convinced that it's any quicker by car in most urban areas.

The could, of course, do something really radical like cycle to work afterwards too.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Course if they actually sent their kids to the local school they wouldn't have the fucking problem in the first place.

 

[cybertect]

the car lobby took control in the UK way way back- the 20s iirc, they outlawed cycle races on UK roads whereas on the continent it was encouraged (i have a pic of my grandad racing illegally in the 30s )

This was very little (indeed nothing) to do with the motoring lobby and very much to do with the attitude of the National Cyclists' Union, which set the rules for bicycle racing in the UK between 1883 and 1942, and viewed racing on public roads as likely to lead to the banning of all cyclists from the highway in the face of public outcry over safety.

The NCU banned road racing in 1890, so it was not possible to compete in an officially recognised bicycle road race after that date.

The legal ban on bicycle road racing in 1937 was merely an implementation of a sporting regulation that had been in existence for over 40 years and both bodies supervising the sport, the NCU and the Road Time Trials Council, supported its introduction (N.B. time trials aren't races).

e2a: racing on public roads in Britain has always been a perilous endeavour, especially should you injure someone while doing it.

Drivers of carriages injuring persons by furious driving

35. Whosoever, having the charge of any carriage or vehicle, shall by wanton or furious driving or racing, or other wilful misconduct, or by wilful neglect, do or cause to be done any bodily harm to any person whatsoever, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and being convicted thereof shall be liable, at the discretion of the court, to be imprisoned for any term not exceeding two years.

 

[Idaho]

With so many lazy cunt school-run cars clogging up the streets, I'm not convinced that it's any quicker by car in most urban areas.

The could, of course, do something really radical like cycle to work afterwards too.

It's as simple as that eh? They don't cycle because they are lazy cunts? And there is nothing whatsoever stopping people cycling other than laziness?

 

[editor]

It's as simple as that eh? They don't cycle because they are lazy cunts? And there is nothing whatsoever stopping people cycling other than laziness?

Some are most certainly lazy cunts. It's been well documented that the majority of car journeys are less than 5 miles, with over a third less than two miles, which is a ridiculously easy walking/cycling distance.

Obviously not everyone can cycle for a variety of understandable reasons, but people driving their little darlings to a school barely around the corner is a triumph of laziness and selfishness.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Taking children to school in the car isn't just out of laziness. Much of it is to do with having to get to work quickly afterwards. Turning the UK into a nation half as cycle friendly as the Netherlands will require more changes to our society at more levels than one might imagine.

A US style school bus network could help here.

 

[Crispy]

A US style school bus network could help here.

Too right

 

[Biddlybee]

Course if they actually sent their kids to the local school they wouldn't have the fucking problem in the first place.

Not everyone gets to send their children to the closest school

 

[Idaho]

A US style school bus network could help here.

There is a big problem with school buses - you have massive unused capacity for 95% of the day.

Tbh - what we need is a properly socialised transport system. Everything else seems to be tinkering with the fringes.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

There is a big problem with school buses - you have massive unused capacity for 95% of the day.

They wouldn't be driving about polluting or congesting the roads though would they?

 

[Idaho]

They wouldn't be driving about polluting or congesting the roads though would they?

Ok - so the average school has 300 children. 200 of which get the bus - that's a minimum of 5 or 6 buses and drivers per school. It's just not a goer.

 

[Crispy]

So why does it work in USA?

 

[citydreams]

Ok - so the average school has 300 children. 200 of which get the bus - that's a minimum of 5 or 6 buses and drivers per school. It's just not a goer.

Stick the kids in boot camp.. Come back 10 years later once they're brave enough to cycle. Sorted.

 

[Idaho]

So why does it work in USA?

Massively bigger country/roads/areas for bus depots - a long existing system that only needs maintenance spend rather than wholesale initiation?

There was a pilot here http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/sustainable/schooltravel/research/evaluationoffirstyellowschoo5750

 

[Idaho]

Stick the kids in boot camp.. Come back 10 years later once they're brave enough to cycle. Sorted.

Not quite sure where to start with that one

 

[cybertect]

So why does it work in USA?

I think there are a few factors.

The UK has a generally better public transport infrastructure than the US, so pupils have traditionally been able to use buses and trains to get to school, with occasional supplementary extra services for schools (London Transport certainly runs 'schools specials'). It's probably a cheaper option that isn't available to schools in the US.

There's also a social component, where riding the bus is much more the realm of the poor in the US than in Europe. Putting your kid on a regular service bus is less of an option (for middle class parents perhaps) than it is here.

AFAIK, US schools also tend to be much larger than those in the UK and serve an entire town. Running what is essentially a 'commuter' service out to various parts of a town is relatively straightforward. With their size also comes commensurate funding that allows for that kind of capital infrastructure.

UK schools tend to be smaller and draw their pupils from a much more dispersed catchment area, with several smaller schools in a locality. Attempting to run special bus services for each school's overlapping catchments to what could amount to more-or-less random destinations would be terribly inefficient. Even in the US, they have problems with under utilisation.

Finally, I suspect that fuel costs being traditionally cheaper in the US have helped keep operational costs down compared with the UK and made it more viable.

BTW, it seems that the School Bus is not free - it's a paid-for service to parents (even if it loses money for the public purse).

 

[fredfelt]

Can anyone recommend a good map to get hold of for a cycle holiday in Holland? Ta.

 

[Idaho]

Can anyone recommend a good map to get hold of for a cycle holiday in Holland? Ta.

I got some excellent results here: Netherlands Cycle Map

 

[Sunray]

[leak..]
....The Super Highways will not be mandatory cycle routes, but will be advisory ones, marked with distinct colours on the carriageway. There will be no segregated road space, indeed much will be in bus lanes, although there will be Advanced Stop Lines at every junction en route. Monitoring using Automatic Cycle Counters will be a feature. There are also plans for co-operation with workplaces along the routes to provide funded cycling facilities, such as lockers, showers, etc.
....

This just makes me angry. Esp when now that the banks fucking up the economy to such an extent

... the total of British taxpayer support for our banks since the start of the credit crunch - in the form of loans, guarantees, insurance and investment - to a remarkable £1.3 trillion, more or less equivalent to the entire annual output of the British economy or GDP.

that we can't even begin to build a few bike lanes, instead we just slap a bit of paint onto the road and call it a job well done. Seriously, to the person who thinks its a good job, can they fuck off and die please.

 

[gentlegreen]

The hills thing is a very important factor too. When I eventually move back to Bristol, I'll continue to ride my bike, but I will be restricted to the flatter areas and routes. Not that I can't cope with the steep hills, but I'd really rather not. And I'm a fit cycle enthusiast. For the average citizen of Bristol, riding a bike anywhere near a hill is considered madness, and rightly so IMO.

Only just read this thread so apols for dragging up this post, but I'm sure you're playing devil's advocate.

I'm 50, fat and get up one of Bristol's steepest hills every morning on my middle cog ... and I'm overtaken by youngsters on hybrids and an older chap on a Brompton ..though for the first 10 years I got off and pushed my (secondhand road) bikes and didn't make the final push until I'd had a hybrid for 3 years and hit 40. I usually have road ratio cogs on my mountain bike.

EDIT :-

This list reminds me there are a few I wouldn't drive up - let alone cycle.

http://locate.irational.org/cgi-bin/bristol_map/bristol_map_gradients.pl

A rough calculation says my steep hill is only 1:10 (50 metres drop over 500 metres.) - though the last little bit is a fair bit steeper.