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Cycling in the Netherlands. Britain's shame.

Yeah, god forbid we could take roadspace away from private motor vehicles.

It's due to happen.. currently called "Super Highways". Though the detail is still being debated, these will be major arterial routes into London, and then eventually into what have been termed "SuperHubs". At the leat they will amount to a few road signs and a grand unveiling, but we're pushing for some network reallocation...
 
Once you get into the City, however, the roads stick to their ancient medieval layout - narrow pavement, single lane for traffic. If these roads are to remain open to public transport (which they must) then there is literally no space for segregated cycle routes.
I can't see why you couldn't close the narrow City streets to private cars (and give off peak access to delivery vehicles).

As for the bus routes in the City, why can't buses and bikes share the road, with a cycle lane available if there's space?
 
The hills thing is a very important factor too. When I eventually move back to Bristol, I'll continue to ride my bike, but I will be restricted to the flatter areas and routes. Not that I can't cope with the steep hills, but I'd really rather not. And I'm a fit cycle enthusiast. For the average citizen of Bristol, riding a bike anywhere near a hill is considered madness, and rightly so IMO.
 
I can't see why you couldn't close the narrow City streets to private cars (and give off peak access to delivery vehicles).
This would be the ideal thing to do. It would involve a massive shift of culture though. In a way, changing attitudes is a much harder job than changing infrastructure.
 
The hills thing is a very important factor too. When I eventually move back to Bristol, I'll continue to ride my bike, but I will be restricted to the flatter areas and routes. Not that I can't cope with the steep hills, but I'd really rather not. And I'm a fit cycle enthusiast. For the average citizen of Bristol, riding a bike anywhere near a hill is considered madness, and rightly so IMO.
I made that point in my OP, although there are a few flat bike trails on disused railways in that area. It's the same in Wales, although for many short journeys - like picking up kids from a nearby nursery - cycling can still be a viable option.

This common British mindset of 'let's drive the kids one mile to school' is fucking ridiculous and shameful.
 
It's due to happen.. currently called "Super Highways". Though the detail is still being debated, these will be major arterial routes into London, and then eventually into what have been termed "SuperHubs". At the leat they will amount to a few road signs and a grand unveiling, but we're pushing for some network reallocation...

Citydreams - if you're talking of Boris' superhighways....I'll believe it when I see it. More like a tacit way of getting cyclists segregated and out of motorists way, than a complete infrastructure, I suspect.
 
This would be the ideal thing to do. It would involve a massive shift of culture though. In a way, changing attitudes is a much harder job than changing infrastructure.
Well, I did say that too!

It's going to take a huge shift and it'll involve taking on the car lobby too, but things really can not go on as they are, IMO. Places like the Netherlands show what can be done, and even if it's not possible to import their entire model, there's still things we can do here.

Highlighting the short-sightedness of the school run might be a good place to start.
 
The hills thing is a very important factor too. When I eventually move back to Bristol, I'll continue to ride my bike, but I will be restricted to the flatter areas and routes. Not that I can't cope with the steep hills, but I'd really rather not. And I'm a fit cycle enthusiast. For the average citizen of Bristol, riding a bike anywhere near a hill is considered madness, and rightly so IMO.

Indeed. And the same for my hometown of Bradford. But no need to extrapolate that attitude to the whole of the UK.
 
Well, I did say that too!

It's going to take a huge shift and it'll involve taking on the car lobby too, but things really can not go on as they are, IMO. Places like the Netherlands show what can be done, and even if it's not possible to import their entire model, there's still things we can do here.

Highlighting the short-sightedness of the school run might be a good place to start.

Seriously, you don't have to quote the Netherlands as an example. I'm living in Berlin - everyone cycles here. No helmets, no lycra, major capital city like London. Segregated cycle lanes on major four/six lane roads, with their own lights and turning points, otherwise on the road with the cars and the trams, but given room and consideration. Not least because Berlin already has the "signless" junctions on backstreets where everyone slows down for one another, being tried out on Exhibition Road, I believe.
 
I never wore helmet or any protective gears while cycling in the Netherlands.

Cars always give way, they don't beep you with loud horn neither, they just slowly drive behind you :D
I also enjoyed the fact that there's dedicated traffic lights for cyclists too.
Oh and the teens, they just love holding each others hands while cycling. So you get 2 to 3 bicycles on a row blocking the traffic.

editor,
You been to Eindhoven? There's this guy who's paralysed. He rides alone on the bicycle lane lying flat on a 'motored'-bed. I doubt I would ever see this in London.
 
I never wore helmet or any protective gears while cycling in the Netherlands.

Cars always give way, they don't beep you with loud horn neither, they just slowly drive behind you :D
And there's the big difference: in the UK many drivers seem to think cyclists are second class road citizens, to be beeped and intimidated out of the way.

It was quite a shock in the Netherlands to see cars stopping for bikes.
 
And there's the big difference: in the UK many drivers seem to think cyclists are second class road citizens, to be beeped and intimidated out of the way.

It was quite a shock in the Netherlands to see cars stopping for bikes.

Pls have a look at that website I posted. It's one bloke's minutae observations on how to build pavement lips, bike rack parking, station facilities, even cycle-lane-side bins in order to facilitate mass cycling. It's fascinating and well worth a read.
 
It was quite a shock in the Netherlands to see cars stopping for bikes.

I really believe - pace your observation and some of the criticisms on this thread - Britain is simply plagued by ignorance on the issue of cycling as a popular solution to congestion, health and obesity, and the only way to solve it is to take some of the transport planners, Dept of Transport civil servants, and some council kicking and screaming to the continent, rather than have councils spend all their money on motorists priorities, plus a bit of box-ticking "cycle parking provision" at some ot of town hypermarket.
 
It was quite a shock in the Netherlands to see cars stopping for bikes.

try touring on french or spanish country roads- the kind of roads where in the UK you'd be passed close and fast people for the most part wait until a safe point to pass you slow and wide, even if it means a considerable wait.
 
Living for a long time in Germany and now in The Netherlands I think the problem is more to do with mindset than the actual logistics of creating a bikepath network. For example not one person here, when confronted by problems of space in towns has come up with the possibility of CLOSING these routes to motorised traffic. This is the case in The Hague (and also in many towns in Germany), streets are often pedestrian/bikes only (apart from deliveries) it isn't impossible but never seems to enter peoples heads in the UK.
 
try touring on french or spanish country roads- the kind of roads where in the UK you'd be passed close and fast people for the most part wait until a safe point to pass you slow and wide, even if it means a considerable wait.

Sorry, did you say "Spanish" country roads? People "wait" before passing?
 
I think you'll like this blog - http://hembrow.blogspot.com/

Set up by a cyclist so pissed off with Britian - and he lived in Cambridge! - that he moved to the Netherlands, and now blogs about the cycle lanes, street furniture, bike shops etc etc there. Wonderfully full of the minutae that make all the difference.

Cheers for that, I've learnt loads (I didn't know the little yellow boxes, you see often, contained tools for cyclists to borrow)
 
Cheers for that, I've learnt loads (I didn't know the little yellow boxes, you see often, contained tools for cyclists to borrow)
Nice:
There is also car parking the railway station. You can see cars parked at the far end of the cycle park in this photo. They are in a position a bit further from the platform and ticket office than the cycle parking. At present there are 40 car parking spaces at this location and a similar number on the other side of the tracks. There is only room for around one in 800 residents to drive to the station, and 15 of these spaces are being lost this year to make room for more cycle parking spaces.

The car parking is free to use, though with the limited spaces I suspect that drivers can find it difficult to get a space. It's an example of carrot rather than stick. People are being encouraged to cycle by choice for the sake of convenience, not charged out of their cars.

The bus station is adjacent to the railway station, so it is also convenient to combine bus journeys with train journeys.
 
If it has I have not noticed it.

I ride down Nørrebrogade (which is mentioned in the article), and parts of it has been closed to cars recently, they pulled the traffic junctions back and got rid of a lane to double the cycle lane at the end of the road. They reckon, it is used by 40000 cyclists daily or is that hourly? Can't remember.

Of course certain policies implemented by the government - such as high tax on cars - my gf's citreon was approx £14000 - make it more desirable to bike.
I will be getting a Christiania bike to move the little one about the city in.
 
If it has I have not noticed it.

I ride down Nørrebrogade (which is mentioned in the article), and parts of it has been closed to cars recently, they pulled the traffic junctions back and got rid of a lane to double the cycle lane at the end of the road. They reckon, it is used by 40000 cyclists daily or is that hourly? Can't remember.

Of course certain policies implemented by the government - such as high tax on cars - my gf's citreon was approx £14000 - make it more desirable to bike.
I will be getting a Christiania bike to move the little one about the city in.

You're in Copehagen aren't you Boris?
I think it's outside of the cities that car driving is decreasing. Same thing in Holland, too many 4x4s, but I think that's just down to an increase in selfish cunts.
 
hmm. well I very rarely get out of the city. But of course in the countryside it is going to be preferable to drive - bus services decreasing, long distances involved.
However, all regional trains and metros have good facilities for bicycles (ie. space to store bikes ), they are frequent too.
 
Nice blog, but all those pics of hotties on bikes make it look a bit, err, 'stalkery' at times, no?

agree. Have had discussions on the same subject with one of the old contributors. Somewhere near the beginning of the blog there is an attempted justification.
But regardless i think it sells the city and the cycling culture very well. Whether there are photos of summer or winter.
 
My favourite bike shot ever..

bakfiets-cargobike-extra-lang-480.jpg

from http://www.workcycles.com/

well, almost..
 
Citydreams - if you're talking of Boris' superhighways....I'll believe it when I see it. More like a tacit way of getting cyclists segregated and out of motorists way, than a complete infrastructure, I suspect.

[leak..]
To address the difficulties that significantly increased levels of cycling would present for congestion and also to overcome some of the barriers to uptake of cycling, a network of potential ‘Cycling Super Highways’ have been identified. For the most part, these are radial corridors into Central London, where a high degree of segregation and priority can be given to cycle traffic. The map below indicates the identified routes.

[map too big to attach]

These consist of 12 radial routes, terminating in Central London, which are aimed at making cycling, particularly for commuting to work, more attractive. At the time of writing, this work is very new and the programme board has had just one meeting, so many issues remain to be resolved. The work is at the formal scoping stage, with two of the routes being costed in detail as a form of ‘pathfinder’ for the rest. The key principle is that the Super Highway routes should be safe, direct, continuous, and comfortable. Coupled with this, detailed information provision and integration into Smarter Travel packages will be required.

The Super Highways will not be mandatory cycle routes, but will be advisory ones, marked with distinct colours on the carriageway. There will be no segregated road space, indeed much will be in bus lanes, although there will be Advanced Stop Lines at every junction en route. Monitoring using Automatic Cycle Counters will be a feature. There are also plans for co-operation with workplaces along the routes to provide funded cycling facilities, such as lockers, showers, etc.

The Mayor has required that at least one route be completed by May 2010, whilst a Mayoral launch event will take place on 21st April 2009.




It is expected that only a small percentage of cycle trips made will replace those currently made by car, the greatest shift will be from bus, tube and rail. However, the additional bicycles and, potentially, additional congestion on the routes would be expected to reduce the attractiveness of the route for other vehicles. However, sophisticated assessment of likely travel behavioural change as a result of the introduction of the Cycle Highways is not yet available. The Leeds University Institute of Transport Studies is advising Policy Analysis on measures to encourage cycling, which may inform this. This section of the study will be expanded as information becomes available.

Overall, it is considered that cycle highways will have a benign impact on the network. However, there are certain links where ‘flashpoints’ may occur, in which case consideration is being given to re-routing of traffic in order to avoid a negative impact on congestion. Some routes seem to offer alternative routing possibilities that may be more pleasant for cyclists and avoid potential areas of congestion.

As a means to progress this project, and to assess the impact, positive or negative, that Cycling Super Highways may present, an assessment of five of the potential routes has been carried out by the team working on this project. The first two on the list, the ‘Northern Line’ and Barking to Tower Hill are being taken forward for detailed costing and implementation. A summary of the appraisal for each of the five routes is included below:-

Northern Line from South Wimbledon to Southwark Bridge (via A3 and A24)
Capacity for cyclists provided by bus, cycle and wide lanes inbound and outbound, albeit with some pinch points at tricky junctions

Barking to Tower Hill (via A13)
Minimal impact as follows (often segregated) cycle lanes in both directions, occasional pinchpoints possible

Hyde Park Corner to Staples Hill (via A5 Edgware Road)
Inbound route shows minimal impact, due to extensive wide lanes and bus lanes, but a diversion should be considered between the Westway and Kendal Street
Outbound, wide lanes and bus lanes offer capacity for cyclists, but a diversion should be considered between Marble Arch and the Westway
Pleasant route available through Hyde Park 5am to midnight

Tower Bridge to Woolwich Ferry (via A200 and A206)
Inbound route shows minimal impact, due to extensive wide lanes and bus lanes
Outbound route is more problematic, with intermittent wide lanes/bus lanes and significant congestion, but still long sections with minimal impact anticipated
Possibility of offering a pleasant diversion through Southwark Park in daylight hours

Hyde Park Corner to Hangar Lane (via Notting Hill Gate, Shepherds Bush Green and A40)
Wood Lane, Shepherds Bush Green, Holland Park Avenue and Kensington Church Street have little capacity for cyclists and are already congested in both directions
Diversion for Kensington Church Street available on Kensington Palace Gardens, other diversions should be explored (possibly using Holland Park in daylight hours)
Need to clarify extent of cycle path between Hangar Lane and A219 as A40 is unsuitable for cyclists[/leak]
 
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