Onket
Je suis [CONTENT REMOVED]
I used to have two that I'd carefully overlapped. It pretty much covered Brixton up to Walthamstow.
Cycle Superhighways
- Thread starter christonabike
- Start date
I used to have two that I'd carefully overlapped. It pretty much covered Brixton up to Walthamstow.
Boycey
juvenile rave slut
as long as you are aware and considerate (RLJing excepted 
) there is no reason not to share the road with bigger vehicles, this just makes me scared they'll introduce contributory negligence to the highway code for people involved in accidents when not using the bike lanes.
how do the "you don't even pay road tax" lot feel about this? i'd be far happier if they spent the money resurfacing roads shared by all traffic.
) there is no reason not to share the road with bigger vehicles, this just makes me scared they'll introduce contributory negligence to the highway code for people involved in accidents when not using the bike lanes.how do the "you don't even pay road tax" lot feel about this? i'd be far happier if they spent the money resurfacing roads shared by all traffic.
I work in a related field and have met someone on one of the Cycling Super Highways teams and I don't envy them at all. These pictures are all the rage at the moment in my line of work - badly done, unrepresentative photoshop jobs that actually do the project more harm than good.
The fundamental problem in these in my opinion is Boris. He has made commitments that he just cannot keep. Staffing on the engineering side at TfL is being cut, support sector consultants have been hammered during the recession and contractors are being forced out. The problem this causes is that you have several quite intensive vanity projects with fixed committed timescales and you don't have the right level and in some cases quality of staff to achieve a decent end result in the timescale. The biggest problem is time. Some of these designs are then going out to Council staff who are then lynching them in an un-constructive manner. I think people just need to accept that these are going in and it's a case of get on board and try and make the best of a bad deal.
Admittedly though these images are more worrying than some of the stuff that I'd seen up to now (even though some of the stuff I've heard about is pretty worrying).
The fundamental problem in these in my opinion is Boris. He has made commitments that he just cannot keep. Staffing on the engineering side at TfL is being cut, support sector consultants have been hammered during the recession and contractors are being forced out. The problem this causes is that you have several quite intensive vanity projects with fixed committed timescales and you don't have the right level and in some cases quality of staff to achieve a decent end result in the timescale. The biggest problem is time. Some of these designs are then going out to Council staff who are then lynching them in an un-constructive manner. I think people just need to accept that these are going in and it's a case of get on board and try and make the best of a bad deal.
Admittedly though these images are more worrying than some of the stuff that I'd seen up to now (even though some of the stuff I've heard about is pretty worrying).
Open Sauce
Active Member
An amusing take here
For these to work, there needs to be a critical mass using them. This means catering for all speeds, therefore allowing safe overtaking. Handlebar width does not so fast cyclist will not use them, slow cyclist will be intimidated by faster ones. Even on the TFL promo video, they are cycling on both lanes
*** CONTENT ALERT : Contains images and sounds of Boris ***
For these to work, there needs to be a critical mass using them. This means catering for all speeds, therefore allowing safe overtaking. Handlebar width does not so fast cyclist will not use them, slow cyclist will be intimidated by faster ones. Even on the TFL promo video, they are cycling on both lanes
*** CONTENT ALERT : Contains images and sounds of Boris ***
Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
here's one of ours.
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
What a load of balls.
How are blue cycle lanes going to help?
How are blue cycle lanes going to help?
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
I like 'em, although they are ultimately just cycle lanes....
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Costing £140million?
I think this is just the most stunning waste of money. It's basically almost no different from your bog-standard cycle lane, ie it's only going to be given as much space as can be spared without inconveniencing motorised traffic. It would be waaay cheaper just to send a personalised letter from the Mayor to every cyclist in London saying "screw you".
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
The next Mayoral election is in 2012 isn't it, so most of these are way past Johnson's mandate, and probably tenure. Just bullshit.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
A drop in t'ocean compared with 16 billion for Crossrail.......
How long are the routes in total? It looks quite a big project- a very big one in fact...
Boycey
juvenile rave slut
+1
Open Sauce
Active Member
Pretty much like anything that is actually happening under Boris' watch, it was Ken's original idea, though I think the execution will be Boris', Ken's plan would have cost more so been more ambitious, Boris' is just for window dressing
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/independent/2008/02/kens-revolution.html
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
Funny how people oppose things they would otherwise support simply because they have a Tory implmenting them!
One or two people have done similar with the cycle hire scheme as well.
Open Sauce
Active Member
You conveniently edited the different in the money to be spent - or didn't read the link posted. £400 million may or may not have made something workable, the current proposals look set to fail. I'd like to know more about the differences between the two, £400 million is a lot, but £140 millions looks like definite waste, may as well spend zero.
No idea what you are talking about with the cycle hire scheme, you'd need to provide some links if you have a point (about what one or two people, I know it was Ken's original idea).
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
So hang on. One person is complaining this is costing too much, another is saying not enough is being spent!!
I know polticians get a bad rap, but in this case you can see their dilema!
I know polticians get a bad rap, but in this case you can see their dilema!
Open Sauce
Active Member
Your contradiction only exists when you selectively summarise to the degree where it is dishonest.
One person is saying it is a lot of money for what we are getting.
Another (me) is saying that in typical Boris style, he not providing anything substantial and is just window dressing.
Still missing your links on what you said about the cycle hire scheme.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
Fair point OS. I have to disagree , though, because I think this *is* a substantial project.
As for the cycle scheme, a couple of posters went from being in favour under Ken to being against under Boris. But naming them would be close to a 'call out' so I'll leave it at that....
As for the cycle scheme, a couple of posters went from being in favour under Ken to being against under Boris. But naming them would be close to a 'call out' so I'll leave it at that....
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
I just can't see a shred of justification for calling this project "substantial". What we're being offered is a very, very expensive re-tarmac of a tiny strip of road - much of which has already got cycle lanes on it, but boring old green ones - that changes absolutely nothing about the experience of cycling it (except, as someone has pointed out above, the possibility that you might now get harassed for being outside it).
Check out this slide (number 6) for a perfect example;
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11901.aspx?lid=switcher
Firstly the lane is not even wide enough to let two bikes pass each other safely in opposite directions, let alone overtake safely.
Secondly it runs randomly over pavements, which means there will be pedestrians standing in it (I don't blame them for this, it's a pavement ffs)
Thirdly, Oh look! - the cycle "SUPERHIGHWAY" is crossing a very minor road used for motorised traffic, but guess who is instructed to give way?
It's a cycle path. It adds nothing. Whatsoever. I get so pissed off by these meaningless schemes that chew up money and achieve sod all. If he wants to do something "green" with that cash he should stick some solar panels up somewhere and stop wasting our time.
Re the party political point. I was against BJ getting elected, but I did think he might just get a 'modern tory' pro-cycling thing going which would challenge my prejudices but I have to say this kind of nonsense absolutely confirms what I expected. Partly for the reasons mentioned in an earlier post about trying to force through vanity projects (ok all politicians do this) but without proper staffing (hello torys), and partly because the feedback I've been getting from those inside on this project is that basically Boris is a lazy arse, he doesn't do the work and is leaving the entire thing to the TfL traffic engineers. Now many traffic engineers are fine people but they will default to pro-car, out-of-the-textbook stuff unless they are specifically directed not to and forced to fnd new and innovative ways of arranging our street space. Whatever his other sins, Ken Livingstone usually surprised me by his boldness and he would - I am convinced - have made a better job of this than Boris, although to be fair he could hardly have come up with something more pathetic.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
These are just artists impressions- let's at least wait for the finished article.
Now come on, you know being "green " is not as simple as just shoving solar panels up here and there. Anyway this is about a load of issues. We are talking about a modal shift to cycling for all sorts of reasons-health, fitness, a more 'liveable' environment. Shoving up solar panels won't give you that.
C'mon co-op, your posts give me the impression you are more intelligent than that sort of cheap shot.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Yes but there are all sorts of obvious principals being violated that clearly mean that these are just cycle paths and not in any way something new. Of course it's possible that they *may* be a bit wider than the illustrations but running across pavements, and being made to give way to motorised traffic on very minor roads where cyclists will outnumber cars, these are nothing to do with the artists, these are all about basic concepts.
Anyway - I cannot think of a single scheme where the artist's impression has been shown worse than the final result, usually they try and suggest that - eg - the lane will be really wide, before unveiling the usual pitiful reality.
Of course it's about modal shift, making London a nicer place to live and work etc etc; but spending money on useless schemes doesn't do that, that's my whole point. Spend it on something useful instead.
The sad truth is, I think, that Boris can't do the right thing here; he's tied by political reality. Cars don't work as a form of mass transit in inner London (even ignoring environmental and social concerns) and in places like Lambeth - where fewer than half of households have a car registered at their address, and some wards have as low as 11% car registration - it would be easy to take cars on with a little leadership. Same in pretty much every inner London borough.
But Boris was elected by suburbia - and they are the people who want to drive in to London every morning. He isn't going to do anything which could be construed as reducing their (massively inflated) share of our roads.
fredfelt
Mostly unknown member
£140 million - that's about 2 miles of the current M1 widening project.
snowy_again
Slush
Given that there's been two fatalities in the last two days caused by construction work lorries killing cyclists, I'm not confident that some blue paint (that has no legal significance) is going to make any difference to safety.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
Will it have no legal status?
What the lanes? If they aren't mandatory (or even if they are) - good luck. Unless they are fully segregated - good luck.
snowy_again
Slush
Sorry, long day and I wasn't making myself clear - dashed white lines, which means they can be used by motorised vehicles. It's not segregation, it's just blue paint.
Their existence will mean IMO, that car drivers think all cyclists should be in them at all times, in the gutter.
[nicked from elsewhere]
Their existence will mean IMO, that car drivers think all cyclists should be in them at all times, in the gutter.
[nicked from elsewhere]
Sorry, long day and I wasn't making myself clear - dashed white lines, which means they can be used by motorised vehicles. It's not segregation, it's just blue paint.
Their existence will mean IMO, that car drivers think all cyclists should be in them at all times, in the gutter.
[nicked from elsewhere]
+1 on that. As stated if it ain't mandatory (and even if it is) forget it - if your dreaming of a nice car free journey. Long and short of it - it's not happening. At least they have deviated away from the PR, handing out leaflets, smarter travel style way of doing something and have at least made some form of effort to try and change the infrastructure. As someone further up pointed out - £140 million is nowhere near enough to get this in when consultants are involved (which they have to be due to time shortages, and lack of suitable available staff and size of the task/project/routes as I mentioned before). But if you spend more than £140 million on what's blatantly a vanity project (e.g. notice how Ken's "LCN+" is getting dumped next year - they will all become borough routes) - in the middle of a recession your going to get a nasty backlash. In short someone should have said no at the start - you can't win with this one. There is no up side.
Open Sauce
Active Member
See here
I was cycling up here and was being beeped at by a car, given it is "traffic calmed", when he caught me up I asked why he was beeping me - apparently I should have been in the cycle lane.
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
Barclay's Cycle Superhighway
fuck off boris, you're not fooling anyone.
are they just the old cycle lanes painted a different colour?
fuck off boris, you're not fooling anyone.
are they just the old cycle lanes painted a different colour?
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