Cutting Crime?

[Blagsta]

Yeah. Probably all helpful. But more than that is needed as well. I do think both tougher sentences for some crimes and a choice of sentences would help.
I think that offenders should contribute as much as possible..

Properly enforced community sentences or drug orders might be an idea. DRR's at the moment are a joke.

 

[Fruitloop]

What ideas do people on here have to cut crime. Especially anti social crimes?

Was consulting my twin brain cells recently.
Liam Fox on question time said " Prison Works" and i guess its not a bad idea for him. But it obviously doesnt work that well, otherwise the more people going to prison would lead to less crime, wouldnt it?
And it doesnt seem to work out that way.

Anyway,anyway.

Heres an idea.

People say we need more prisons....Fair enough but i reckon we need to close down some of the old inner city ones as well.
Build some new ones out in the country and up in the highlands etc...Put the most anti social criminals as far away from othe people as possible...


etc etc...
I know the Liberals will hate all that.

But my other idea is that people convicted of crimes should get choices about their sentences. say someone gets 4 years for aggravated assault.
They can choose to work in the highlands, on a farm and building a prison and only serve 2. Or they can sit in a cell somewhere like wormwood scrubs for 4 years.
I think giving people a choice would be a really good thing.

What do other people think?
Is giving people a choice on how to serve their sentences a good idea?

Prisons should be based on Buddhist Monasteries (the best kind. Beautiful, peaceful, but up at five, no eating after noon and a shit-load of hoeing in the meantime.

 

[Andy the Don]

Targetted resources to the children & parent including the teaching better parenting skills to those at risk.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Targetted resources to the children & parent including the teaching better parenting skills to those at risk.

That I agree with as a preventative measure.

 

[samk]

By the time people have committed serious enough crimes to go to prison, most of them are already in the habit of committing offences, and have already caused a lot of intimidation and nuisance to the community.

Putting them in the stocks after the first drunken brawl would save a lot of trouble for them and society.

Naturally, there should be supervising wardens so nothing harder than rotting fruit is thrown at them, there is no need to go totally medieval...

 

[KeyboardJockey]

By the time people have committed serious enough crimes to go to prison, most of them are already in the habit of committing offences, and have already caused a lot of intimidation and nuisance to the community.

Putting them in the stocks after the first drunken brawl would save a lot of trouble for them and society.

Naturally, there should be supervising wardens so nothing harder than rotting fruit is thrown at them, there is no need to go totally medieval...

Not a bad idea. Supervised stocks would probably divert from crime those who are on the edge of criminality.

 

[JHE]

By the time people have committed serious enough crimes to go to prison, most of them are already in the habit of committing offences, and have already caused a lot of intimidation and nuisance to the community.

Putting them in the stocks after the first drunken brawl would save a lot of trouble for them and society.

Naturally, there should be supervising wardens so nothing harder than rotting fruit is thrown at them, there is no need to go totally medieval...

I sympathise a lot. I like the way your proposal goes against the fashionable cant about raising the self-esteem of people who behave badly. You want to go back to the older idea that if people behave badly they need to be made humbler: they need to be humiliated.

However, I can't really support it. We should probably stick with the abolition of torture and humiliation - for fear of opening floodgates.

And I'm not really convinced that the stocks would work.

Second thoughts... perhaps there could be an experiment for a year or two, to see if it works...

 

[_angel_]

KBJ: What have the poor scots ever done to deserve a load of English criminals dumped on 'em?


Can't see that one going down too well tbh.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

KBJ: What have the poor scots ever done to deserve a load of English criminals dumped on 'em?


Can't see that one going down too well tbh.

The scots get extra money why shouldn't they do more to earn it and take our crims in special camps / prisons?

 

[tbaldwin]

KBJ: What have the poor scots ever done to deserve a load of English criminals dumped on 'em?


Can't see that one going down too well tbh.

Bannockburn?

 

[ViolentPanda]

The scots get extra money why shouldn't they do more to earn it and take our crims in special camps / prisons?

What a sad specimen you've become.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

What a sad specimen you've become.

Why is that? Is it because I've seen thugs and lowlifes swaggering round without sanction and feel that there is something wrong with this. Everyone has beena little bit naughty in their lives andin their growing up but what is happening now has gone far far beyond this. So for calling for a more retrubritive justice system is becoming a sad speciimen - in that case a large percentage of the UK is now in your eyes 'a sad specimen'. If we don't reign in the thugs and lowlives NOW then the clamour for even harsher actions will get louder and we could end up with the unedifying spectale of fash MP's who will be voted in by those who are desparate to have their streets back.

We need to separate those offenders who can be saved and those who can't be saved. Local prisons shold be reserved for lesser offenders so that they don't lose family contact those who are commit more heinous offences should suffer greater punishment - its proportionality isn't it.

Where I have erred is not putting a winky smiley next to the 'scots get more money' comment. But in reality Scotland does have much more free land where such prisons could be sited.

 

[Yossarian]

Why is that? Is it because I've seen thugs and lowlifes swaggering round without sanction and feel that there is something wrong with this. Everyone has beena little bit naughty in their lives andin their growing up but what is happening now has gone far far beyond this. So for calling for a more retrubritive justice system is becoming a sad speciimen - in that case a large percentage of the UK is now in your eyes 'a sad specimen'. If we don't reign in the thugs and lowlives NOW then the clamour for even harsher actions will get louder and we could end up with the unedifying spectale of fash MP's who will be voted in by those who are desparate to have their streets back.

We need to separate those offenders who can be saved and those who can't be saved. Local prisons shold be reserved for lesser offenders so that they don't lose family contact those who are commit more heinous offences should suffer greater punishment - its proportionality isn't it.

Where I have erred is not putting a winky smiley next to the 'scots get more money' comment. But in reality Scotland does have much more free land where such prisons could be sited.

I admit that with the terrifying threat of the Caledonian gulags hanging over me, I'd probably never even jaywalk again, but that kind of punitive justice system hasn't exactly worked out great for the US though, has it?

 

[_angel_]

Why not go the whole hog and transport them to Australia?

 

[tbaldwin]

I admit that with the terrifying threat of the Caledonian gulags hanging over me, I'd probably never even jaywalk again, but that kind of punitive justice system hasn't exactly worked out great for the US though, has it?

Yeah Yeah Yeah but id like to see you go shoplifting in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Yossarian]

Do you actually advocate cutting the hands off thieves, or are you just being contrary?

 

[tbaldwin]

We need to separate those offenders who can be saved and those who can't be saved. Local prisons shold be reserved for lesser offenders so that they don't lose family contact those who are commit more heinous offences should suffer greater punishment - its proportionality isn't it.

Where I have erred is not putting a winky smiley next to the 'scots get more money' comment. But in reality Scotland does have much more free land where such prisons could be sited.

Have to agree. And i do think that most people Liam Fox etc apart realise that Prison and the CJS generally is not really working.

I think being as far away from mates and families might actually be a good thing for some crims too. Let them have a fresh start.

Prisoners should be made to pay for their own keep and accomodation.

 

[tbaldwin]

Do you actually advocate cutting the hands off thieves, or are you just being contrary?

The latter. But i do think that some deterrents do work. But i also think you have to look at the causes of crime.
I think Labour partly got into power due to the slogan. " Tough on Crime, Tough on the Causes of Crime"
And a big problem for them now is that they are widely seen as WEAK on both.

 

[marty21]

Why not go the whole hog and transport them to Australia?

i heard a similar idea from an old bloke on the bus, he said

"you know what they should do with those young thugs?"
his mates asked him what

"well there's loads of empty islands off scotland, send them there with some seeds, that's all, let them fend for themselves"

 

[tbaldwin]

i heard a similar idea from an old bloke on the bus, he said

"you know what they should do with those young thugs?"
his mates asked him what

"well there's loads of empty islands off scotland, send them there with some seeds, that's all, let them fend for themselves"

Make a good TV programme.

I often have good ideas for TV shows like that myself. Still waiting for the BBC to return my calls.

 

[Blagsta]

Not a bad idea. Supervised stocks would probably divert from crime those who are on the edge of criminality.

I've seen you advocate this before. It's crazy and barbaric and would only serve further alienate people.

 

[Blagsta]

Why is that? Is it because I've seen thugs and lowlifes swaggering round without sanction and feel that there is something wrong with this. Everyone has beena little bit naughty in their lives andin their growing up but what is happening now has gone far far beyond this. So for calling for a more retrubritive justice system is becoming a sad speciimen - in that case a large percentage of the UK is now in your eyes 'a sad specimen'. If we don't reign in the thugs and lowlives NOW then the clamour for even harsher actions will get louder and we could end up with the unedifying spectale of fash MP's who will be voted in by those who are desparate to have their streets back.

We need to separate those offenders who can be saved and those who can't be saved. Local prisons shold be reserved for lesser offenders so that they don't lose family contact those who are commit more heinous offences should suffer greater punishment - its proportionality isn't it.

Where I have erred is not putting a winky smiley next to the 'scots get more money' comment. But in reality Scotland does have much more free land where such prisons could be sited.

Your swing to the right is complete. What a sad sack.

 

[Cobbles]

People say we need more prisons....Fair enough but i reckon we need to close down some of the old inner city ones as well.
Build some new ones out in the country and up in the highlands etc...Put the most anti social criminals as far away from othe people as possible...

Why clutter up areas of beauty with prisons? The isolation factor's a good idea, through - there's plenty of ex- oil rigs around with accommodation units - they could be re-purposed (not renovated - comfort isn't necessary) and turned into 3 strikes and you're out centres. There wouldn't be any need to saff them (where are they going to go if they escape) - just drop food and additional convicts off once a week.

Simply ship all the slime who don't make any contribution to society offshore - problem solved.

 

[Cobbles]

I've seen you advocate this before. It's crazy and barbaric and would only serve further alienate people.

Nonsense - it would make for great TV as well. Those who had been afflicted by anti-social behaviourists such as vandals and graffitti merchants could have a go at some real retribution.

 

[nino_savatte]

Sod the prisoner and sod the relatives. The scumbag is in prison for a reason if he / she can't see relatives then tough fucking luck. And I DO know how important visiting is to a prisoner as I've had friends inside for minor stuff. But if we are talking about amoral antisocial scum who prey on others especially the weak why the fuck should we bother at all about their discomfiture.

The situation could be handled by having a once a month organised visiting trip with transport laid on.

Personally I think there are a lot of people who could b e dealt with through community sentences more effectively but for those who deserve prison why should we even begin to consider the idea of 'choice'. Rather then halve the sentence I'd only go so far as to say knocking off one third. Prisoners should be protected from violence from other inmates and staff but thats as far as it should go. Those who respond to education etc should be moved to more humane prisons but for the scum like muggers and rapists they should rot in some cold highland camp.

Hang 'em
Flog 'em
Burn 'em

Did you ever wonder why the rates of recidivism are higher here than elsewhere in Northern Europe?

 

[nino_savatte]

The scots get extra money why shouldn't they do more to earn it and take our crims in special camps / prisons?

My, what a charmer. I'm only surprised that you haven't included the 'freeloading' unemployed into your scheme. Make 'em work! Force them to carry out back-breaking manual labour for less than the minimum wage.

 

[Cobbles]

My, what a charmer. I'm only surprised that you haven't included the 'freeloading' unemployed into your scheme. Make 'em work! Force them to carry out back-breaking manual labour for less than the minimum wage.

Excellent idea - why use expensive contractors to build remote prisons - ship in the long term unemployed - "first, you can build your accommodation, then get on with building the prison".

 

[nino_savatte]

Excellent idea - why use expensive contractors to build remote prisons - ship in the long term unemployed - "first, you can build your accommodation, then get on with building the prison".

I'm sure KBJ has got it all worked out.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Your swing to the right is complete. What a sad sack.

Swing to the right - do me a fucking favour - swing to reality more like.

 

[nino_savatte]

You know, that's how the US right described those former Trots who became neo cons: as having been "mugged by reality".

You're in great company, KBJ.