Customers return 'confusing' Linux netbooks
- Thread starter editor
- Start date
8ball
As seen on TikTok
Yeah, I quite fancied using it for mixing some tracks on the train, but have been advised that it's probably not worth trying.
Not train tracks - that would be highly dangerous.
fractionMan
Custom Title
If you want to do complicated shit buy a laptop. They're called netbooks for a reason.
what in-fighting is this ? gnome and kde have different goals. and if you want to replace one with the other, just install what you want. same with redhat, ubuntu, etc ..
bollocks. out of the box ubuntu will recognise more basic hardware. with windows i have to download drivers for network cards, sound-cards, etc. ndis wrappers are there because the manufactrers refuse to release either specifically linux drivers or specs.
not saying "linux" is perfect yet but nice fud.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
For power users, the Eee (or at least the 701 that I have, and I suspect the later ones probably have the same issues) is a bit handicapped out of the box due to it having some really daft, ancient choices made as to libraries, and not enough spare space to upgrade them, so really if you want to have total control you have to wipe it and install something else.
For most users though the basic interface is absolutely fine. In fact the less familiar you were with Linux, the more you'd like it, I suspect.
For most users though the basic interface is absolutely fine. In fact the less familiar you were with Linux, the more you'd like it, I suspect.
I think I'm comfortably what you'd describe as a technical user, and I spent the day yesterday fighting with a reinstall of Vista on a brand new Dell laptop (want to image it so needed a VLK, rather than the pre-installed Vista), because it doesn't recognise any of the hardware (all standard Intel stuff) as default, and Dell's drivers are rubbish.
Most Windows users don't build or rebuild their machines (they come pre-built, or are built by IT departments), and if they were to do so, they'd quite possibly have similar struggles as they would if they were to attempt Linux OS administration.
Even so, it's still my opinion that Linux still really isn't ready for the bulk of non-technical users to use as an everyday client OS yet. However, that's definitely in part due to the users, as well as any perceived difficulties with the OS itself...
Most Windows users don't build or rebuild their machines (they come pre-built, or are built by IT departments), and if they were to do so, they'd quite possibly have similar struggles as they would if they were to attempt Linux OS administration.
Even so, it's still my opinion that Linux still really isn't ready for the bulk of non-technical users to use as an everyday client OS yet. However, that's definitely in part due to the users, as well as any perceived difficulties with the OS itself...
i do the same on any new install of windows. install cygwin, and then install screen and ssh.
cybertect
It's grim up north (London)
12 November: Carphone Warehouse denies mass Linux Webbook recall [The Register]
N.B. it's the recall aspect that's being denied.
Of course, what we don't know is whether the returns rate on XP based models is any lower than that for Linux OS ones.
e2a: Oh, we do, and they're about the same...
The Register said:
N.B. it's the recall aspect that's being denied.
Of course, what we don't know is whether the returns rate on XP based models is any lower than that for Linux OS ones.
e2a: Oh, we do, and they're about the same...
ASUS CEO Jerry Shen said:
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
Different goals? What that then if its not squabbling over who can produce the best front end.
The best front end for a Unix system is Apples, proof positive what can be done if you focus talents.
Gnome, KDE are a total shambles and utterly shit in comparison to OSX. The most amazing thing about them is that they work moderately reliably.
No fear uncertainty or doubt in any of my OP, its laid bare on my Ubuntu VM image.
"squabbling" is completely different from having "different goals". theres no "squabbling" as each project has a different idea of how a frontend should work. it would also indicate animoisity between developers which i havent seen.
gnome - hides complicated options from the user
kde - gives power users all the options youll ever want
and they both work good enough. if you have a specific problem in mind, why not report it ?
thought we were talking about linux ... and there flaws (as there in any ui) enough in the finder. its bee n coded using legacy apis, and has inconsistent modes. theres not even a "cut" command. at least it has paste !
BlueSquareThing
With chips
Absolutely.
When I first brought one home from work I gave it to my oldest kiddie who was 6 at the time and asked him if he could find the WP and type something and then save it. 2 minutes later he'd done it and found the games.
Apple-X cuts on OSX, just like CTRL-X does on Windows or Linux...
hendo
Fish finger sandwiches
I'm sat in the pub writing this on my EEE900. I can't fault this little machine really, it's lightweight, robust and is a good traveller.
But the linux os/xandros variant is a real problem for me.
- No matter how hard i try it WILL NOT recognise dongles, either bluetooth or 3G.
- Downloading programmes to run on it doesn't work. i went to the Asus download site, tried to load up a version of gimp, but it just won't run. Very frustrating.
It's a lovely little machine, but next time it's xp for me. I don't want to brick this thing by fiddling under the bonnet, I don't have the iT cojones most of you on this forum have.
I'm stuck doing the vanilla things, which is great as far as it goes, but it's an XP machine next time for me.
But the linux os/xandros variant is a real problem for me.
- No matter how hard i try it WILL NOT recognise dongles, either bluetooth or 3G.
- Downloading programmes to run on it doesn't work. i went to the Asus download site, tried to load up a version of gimp, but it just won't run. Very frustrating.
It's a lovely little machine, but next time it's xp for me. I don't want to brick this thing by fiddling under the bonnet, I don't have the iT cojones most of you on this forum have.
I'm stuck doing the vanilla things, which is great as far as it goes, but it's an XP machine next time for me.
Most people aren't "stupid", it's just that they've probably become to expect a box to work "one way". Show 'em a short cut and some people freak out whatever the OS is.
I've shown some first-level Linux support chaps stuff and they show real surprise. Same thing goes for windows. "This is how you do this, step 1.... step X." That becomes ingrained.
So people may not be comfortable with a nice shiney icon that says "web browser" when they expect ie. Or "documents" when they expect "word". They expect to install anti-virus stuff (on Linux note books), 'cos as far as they are concerned -all- computers must have them.
I put debian and freeeee on my netbook and run them fine. *nix ain't for everyone.
I've shown some first-level Linux support chaps stuff and they show real surprise. Same thing goes for windows. "This is how you do this, step 1.... step X." That becomes ingrained.
So people may not be comfortable with a nice shiney icon that says "web browser" when they expect ie. Or "documents" when they expect "word". They expect to install anti-virus stuff (on Linux note books), 'cos as far as they are concerned -all- computers must have them.
I put debian and freeeee on my netbook and run them fine. *nix ain't for everyone.
cybertect
It's grim up north (London)
I have to say that in nearly 20 years of using Macs and over a decade of using Linux, I've not missed that particular feature on any Mac OS.
There is a Command-drag shortcut to achieve the same thing when moving files between volumes which I have barely ever used. I prefer to see that the files have finished copying to the target volume before deleting them from the source volume.
'Copy' in the Finder was damn useful addition to OS X, though.
cybertect
It's grim up north (London)
I suspect that in some ways it's not different enough.
People are happy to learn a completely new UI for their mobile phone or PDA - witness the success of Blackberry and the iPhone.
The problem is possibly that a netbook is close enough to a normal computer interface for it to be off-putting that it doesn't work exactly as they're used to. If it were perhaps more of an appliance metaphor, like Sony's eBooks, then maybe their expectations would be different.
It's a bit like the realistic renderings of computer models of people, the closer it gets to reality without being exactly right, the more wrong it looks.
newbie
undisambiguated
I don't recognise that limitation, I've yet to find anything my netbook won't do. If you mean there's a lot that a machine without a hard disk won't do, then I agree. But maybe you just meant Linux machine, and I'd agree about that, too
e2a well, it won't play DVDs, but that's obvious. It doesn't make tea either.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Hmm. Linux bluetooth support is to be fair pretty shit, drivers as usual I expect, but my 3G dongle worked out of the box with my 701, easier than getting it to work with the Mac actually. What model is the modem?
Asus have, though, dumbed down the interface to the extent that it's hard to install anything new without having to open terminals, which is a bit stupid. There are netbook-optimised distros now which are not only easy to use but have all of the installation and configuration options you'd expect - but do manufacturers use them? do they bollocks.
elbows
Well-Known Member
All of the explanations for why Linux should be good enough, does not cut the mustard. There is no point ascribing the problems to dumb users, even if its true, thats what your dealing with and what sits between the chair and the computer is not some annoying bottleneck, its the whole reason for the chair and the computer to exist.
At least some of the confusion from users who dont know what to expect from Linux, is that there are about a gazillion windows apps out there that they might be expecting to run.
As one sort of geek linux failed me, so Im not surprised the masses have mixed feelings about it.
At least some of the confusion from users who dont know what to expect from Linux, is that there are about a gazillion windows apps out there that they might be expecting to run.
As one sort of geek linux failed me, so Im not surprised the masses have mixed feelings about it.
Yep... I found it too simplistic, so I ditched it for 'Ubuntu eee'. There's nothing I can do on the desktop that I can't do on the eee - the eee's pretty handy for recording music/meetings, etc.
A good tip is to put the /home directory on the 16Gb drive, plus there's a few other tricks to reduce unnecessary read/writes to the (fast) 4Gb drive, thus increasing it's life (some useful scripts here).
Isn't that a bit like buying a car from someone, then taking it back and demanding a refund because you don't know how to drive?
This 'culture of entitlement to instant gratification' which engenders the attitude that you shouldn't have to put any time or effort into anything to get what you want out of it has a lot to answer for - unfortunately it's appears to be spreading.
Here's a perfect example... Check out!
If you can't be bothered to either RTFM or spend a little time sorting it out for yourself, fine, be a paytard and cough up for Windows. Poor old Microsoft will be only too happy to shaft you.
Edit 2 add: I do still run XP in a Virtual Machine (under Ubuntu) for a few poxy .net applications that I need to run - curiously (or not) XP in a VM runs faster than it did natively!
there are a gazillion linux apps as well. most of them free and takes three mouse clicks to download.
part of the problem is that people lump "linux" altogether. and that means baby distros like netbooks, hardcore distros like slackware and then the corporate desktops like redhat. then theres ubuntu, nice and friendly. its a bit like saying windows is shit when you think of me but are dealing with xp.
and for the apps you want to run from windows theres stuff like crossover office. runs apps like office 2003 on "linux".
as for users perceptions ... when mates have come over several have used "linux" ie ubuntu without realising it. one even thought it was os x.
but if you think something will be shit, it usually is. try the new version of ubuntu 8.10. even better that last time !
If you can't be bothered to either RTFM or spend a little time sorting it out for yourself, fine, be a paytard and cough up for Windows. Poor old Microsoft will be only too happy to shaft you.
or just ask a question at ubuntuforums.org . people are very friendly there ... !!
newbie
undisambiguated
When you go out looking to choose a new car you don't only reject the ones that simply won't start, you base your choice on the one that best suits your needs for comfort, warmth, music, luggage space, ergonomics, repairability..... the overall experience. Linux might do the basics but it doesn't satisfy all of the needs of most users- hence Windows in a VM. As not everyone is an enthusiast who reckons it's worth the investment in time and effort to do some but not all of the requirements, it's going to remain a minority hobby* for those who are happy to restrict what they do to the limited set of what is available on their platform of choice.
It's not a big surprise that Linuxistas like to sneer at those who don't share their game- feeling superior is part of the attraction, jeez if everybody and their dog rode a fixed wheel bike the buzz amongst the committed would be all about gears.
* as a client OS- servers, embedded etc is a different discussion
It's not a big surprise that Linuxistas like to sneer at those who don't share their game- feeling superior is part of the attraction, jeez if everybody and their dog rode a fixed wheel bike the buzz amongst the committed would be all about gears.
* as a client OS- servers, embedded etc is a different discussion
BlueSquareThing
With chips
I can't imagine having a netbook as my sole machine. Do people do that? Would seem strange.
untethered
For industry & decency
If you can't be bothered to either RTFM or spend a little time sorting it out for yourself, fine, be a paytard and cough up for Windows. Poor old Microsoft will be only too happy to shaft you.
Is a "paytard" someone for whom several dozen hours spent trying to figure out what is still a user-hostile operating system are worth less than the £30 or so they'd have to pay for Windows?
newbie
undisambiguated
They used to say that about laptops.
FWIW I've got the same amount of memory in the netbook as in the main machine, and more storage (250 vs 160). There's not quite so much grunt but for 98% of what I do that's not noticeable- big spreadsheet recalcs are a little slower but that's about it. With an external monitor, keyboard and mouse the difference is almost imperceptible. Given that it's about half the price and half the weight I'm not convinced I see the need to buy a full size laptop ever again. About the only real drawback is lack of a DVD drive but external ones are cheap and easy enough.
Similar threads
