Cuba...the news gets better and better..

[fela fan]

Have you read the Amnesty International links I posted?

You could also try re-reading my previous posts.

I don't really want to waste much more time on your or cemertyone's bullshit - a mistake I have made before and learnt from.

I'll come back tommorrow.

No, you obviously haven't learnt from your mistake, coz you're bang in the process of repeating your 'mistake'.

You're probably just like that lock chap, you just like putting people down with snide remarks.

You'll be back for more from me, and no doubt cemerytone, and all the others you have problems with. It's why you're on these boards it seems.

 

[cemertyone]

I don't really want to waste much more time on your or cemertyone's bullshit - a mistake I have made before and learnt from.

I'll come back tommorrow.

However you would expect that we extend you a courtesy that you think me or Fela dont warrant.

 

[Lock&Light]

Something changed in you?

No. The novelty just wore off, that's all.

 

[Streathamite]

Prisoners of conscience: 71 longing for freedom
Amnesty International, 18 March 2005

"In March 2003, the Cuban government carried out the most severe crackdown on the dissident movement since the years following the 1959 revolution. Scores of dissidents were detained, seventy five of whom were subjected to summary trials and quickly sentenced to prison terms ranging from 26 months to 28 years. This crackdown came as a surprise to many observers who believed that Cuba might be moving towards a more open and tolerant approach towards opponents of the regime: the number of prisoners of conscience had declined and had been superseded by short term detentions, interrogations, summonses, threats, intimidation, eviction, loss of employment, restrictions on travel, house searches or physical or verbal acts of aggression. In addition, in April 2000 the Cuban Government began implementing a de facto moratorium on executions, which was broken in April 2003 with the execution of three men convicted of hijacking a tugboat to leave the island, in which no one was harmed.

The events of March/April 2003 signalled a step backwards for Cuba in terms of respect for human rights. The authorities tried to justify the crackdown by citing provocation and aggression from the United States. Amnesty International declared the 75 convicted dissidents to be prisoners of conscience(1) and called for their immediate and unconditional release, since the conduct for which dissidents were prosecuted was non-violent and fell within the parameters of the legitimate exercise of fundamental freedoms as guaranteed under international standards..."

full article here: http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR250022005

Also see Amnesty International 2005 report on Cuba: http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/cub-summary-eng

I know tghis will amaze you teeJay...but Cuba isn't actually the only country to fall foul of amnesty, and it HAS had the yanqui boot on its' neck for near-50 years, which IMo would justify certain extra precautions at home.
The USA has been slated on HR every bit as much as cuba - so has the UK over NI.
as for the laughter-party of a US 'democracy'; a choice between two virtually identical options is NOT a democratic choice; it is a stitch-up

does those latter criticisms invalidate either of those regimes.
I also doubt you've been to cuba; I have. You can do loads there without the fuzz turning a hair - locals OR tourists.
you can go on the web there. In fact all round, it's just about the most fear-free 'repressive regime' I've ever visited.
cubans are openly critical of many aspexcts of their country, but there IS a consensus around Fidel and his boys being a marked improvement on his predecessor, and on any alternative future as the US's offshore bitch.

 

[mears]

Democracy? Where you may vote for parties with identical policies of supporting big business and screwing the poor?

I would not describe life as being good for the 2 million plus people you have in prison in the good ol USA.

A country rooted in genocide thats all you are.

We have a high standard of living in the states and the vast majority of people in America reside in the middle class.

Sour grapes my friend

 

[mears]

mears don't care about their quality, he cares about the colour of their money.

Can you elaborate?

 

[mears]

I don't know how to spell a pig's snort, but that's what i want to write.

Some people may have it the way you describe, but very few. Money eh, your old curse mears. Plenty of wealthy americans i meet, and they are flabbergasted at the sight of an alternative life to the rampantly capitalist one they're caught up in back on their home soil.

Yes, but they always seem to return.

And millions of people would love the live in the US or UK.

People vote with their feet.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Its stupid to compare Cuba with the countries like the USA. Compare like with like - neighbours like jamaica, haiti, the dominican republic - all riven with violence and grinding poverty.

On that basis cuba is defenitely a better place to live.

US policy towards cuba is disgusting and the fact that the country has managed to survive is admirable - Casto's authoritariansim notwithstanding.

 

[JoePolitix]

Its stupid to compare Cuba with the countries like the USA. Compare like with like - neighbours like jamaica, haiti, the dominican republic - all riven with violence and grinding poverty.

On that basis cuba is defenitely a better place to live.

US policy towards cuba is disgusting and the fact that the country has managed to survive is admirable - Casto's authoritariansim notwithstanding.

You've hit the nail on the head there.

 

[nino_savatte]

We have a high standard of living in the states and the vast majority of people in America reside in the middle class.

Sour grapes my friend

What is "middle class"? It's pretty meaningless in its US context since you have designated even the working class as [blue collar] middle class.

You can redefine words and reorder your language but non of these things will ever completely mask the real truth.

 

[Dougal]

We have a high standard of living in the states and the vast majority of people in America reside in the middle class.

Sour grapes my friend

Evidence for this assertion?

 

[Barking_Mad]

We have a high standard of living in the states and the vast majority of people in America reside in the middle class.

Sour grapes my friend

Let's see - the US is the wealthiest country on earth yet more children die before the age of 1 than they do in Cuba, and for that matter most of Western Europe. Why do you let so many babies die Mears? Doesn't that bother you?

See for me a society shoud be judged on the way it treats its poorest and most vulnerable, something which the USA on many social levels fails badly at

And its not sour grapes, you really are like a stuck record. After all this time is that all you can manage to say? No critique? No concessions? No humility?

I feel sorry you act and speak like a pre-programmed device rather than a human being. To you its all about being the best isn't it? No.1, top dog! Competition, competition, competition.........how droll.

 

[mears]

Evidence for this assertion?

Do your own research

 

[mears]

Let's see - the US is the wealthiest country on earth yet more children die before the age of 1 than they do in Cuba, and for that matter most of Western Europe. Why do you let so many babies die Mears? Doesn't that bother you?

See for me a society shoud be judged on the way it treats its poorest and most vulnerable, something which the USA on many social levels fails badly at

And its not sour grapes, you really are like a stuck record. After all this time is that all you can manage to say? No critique? No concessions? No humility?

I feel sorry you act and speak like a pre-programmed device rather than a human being. To you its all about being the best isn't it? No.1, top dog! Competition, competition, competition.........how droll.

Infant mortality is to high in the US no doubt about it.

You can find info on the Cuban health care system. But what about the unemployment rate in Cuba, how do they define poverty in Cuba, what percentage of their GDP is spent on the military? What is the total GDP of the island? Or does the Cuban government only care to publish numbers on education and healthcare.

Cuba is just another dictatorship that tries to supress any embarrasing information. Castro no better than any African or Middle Eastern despot.

 

[zoltan]

..and dont you think thebullying embargo on Cuba has some impact on these stats ?

No-one likes a bully

 

[Barking_Mad]

Infant mortality is to high in the US no doubt about it.

You can find info on the Cuban health care system. But what about the unemployment rate in Cuba, how do they define poverty in Cuba, what percentage of their GDP is spent on the military? What is the total GDP of the island? Or does the Cuban government only care to publish numbers on education and healthcare.

Cuba is just another dictatorship that tries to supress any embarrasing information. Castro no better than any African or Middle Eastern despot.

But Mears you're just displaying more doublethink. The US has not traded with Cuba for what, 40 years or so? In between times you've housed the terrorist who blew up a Cuban civilian airliner, and many others who live happily in Florida thanks in some cases to Presidential pardon. So is it any wonder in reality that Castro is very defensive when it comes to the US? Im not going to support him or his methods but you have to accept your role in why Cuba is like it is today.

Secondly the human rights abuses in Cuba are nothing compared to those in China, yet there's no blockade on China which has of course a repressive one party state. For once why dont you just admit your own and your Government's hypocrisy. You're past the point of embarassing. The odd thing is this blockade is starting to hurt you as Chinese and European petroleum firms deal with Cuba and their off shore oil. Even US Senator's are calling into question the likelyhoodof a 40 year blockade that's only assisted in stunting Cubas growth. You've been bullying Cuba for all these years but it looks like they might have the last laugh.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Additionally on military spending. Why do you spend so much on the military if you are so nice to other countries. I mean I know you can't understand why people don't like your country but to others its fairly obvious. I don't know maybe you should reduce your militaty spending and insteadl ook after your own instead of bringing death and destruction to Iraqis........

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do your own research

If you make the assertion, you have to support it.

 

[Streathamite]

We have a high standard of living in the states and the vast majority of people in America reside in the middle class.

Sour grapes my friend

SOME people have a high standard of living - and approx 55% could be said to be 'middle class', whatever that impossibly vague term means. some 30% - in the worlds most powerful nation - live in poverty, going by UN yardsticks. I am yet to encounter a first world country with a bigger gap between rich and poor

 

[mears]

But Mears you're just displaying more doublethink. The US has not traded with Cuba for what, 40 years or so? In between times you've housed the terrorist who blew up a Cuban civilian airliner, and many others who live happily in Florida thanks in some cases to Presidential pardon. So is it any wonder in reality that Castro is very defensive when it comes to the US? Im not going to support him or his methods but you have to accept your role in why Cuba is like it is today.

Secondly the human rights abuses in Cuba are nothing compared to those in China, yet there's no blockade on China which has of course a repressive one party state. For once why dont you just admit your own and your Government's hypocrisy. You're past the point of embarassing. The odd thing is this blockade is starting to hurt you as Chinese and European petroleum firms deal with Cuba and their off shore oil. Even US Senator's are calling into question the likelyhoodof a 40 year blockade that's only assisted in stunting Cubas growth. You've been bullying Cuba for all these years but it looks like they might have the last laugh.

Here it is. I am posting this for a second time. You ignored it first time around. Its in response to the prior argument and this simiar argument.

Since you can't find a suitable retort why don't you run along now

Every country deals with other countries on their own terms. Every countries foreign policy has some measure of hypocricy, right? Or maybe you should name one that doesn't. Or is it just about the US and the Power, power of being the only super power. That is why you are pissed I know.

If the US didn't back any dictators the US would not do business with most of Africa and the ME.

So is that what the US should do? Close all relations with all dictators?

Is that what the EU should do? Not deal with Syria, Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe, China, Egypt, Sudan, Morocco, Vietnam, Kuwait, UAE and Jordan?

Just create two groups? The western democracies and everyone else?

 

[mears]

Additionally on military spending. Why do you spend so much on the military if you are so nice to other countries. I mean I know you can't understand why people don't like your country but to others its fairly obvious. I don't know maybe you should reduce your militaty spending and insteadl ook after your own instead of bringing death and destruction to Iraqis........

Again, you make it so simple. Americas military budget is so big because the US economy towers over the rest of the world.

Like, you know, the economy of the state of California is bigger than the country of France.

Per every $10 of GDP America spends $.024 on defense. This ranks 46th on the list of nations as shown here:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_exp_dol_fig_pergdp

So many other countries devote a larger share of their pie towards defense.

When your economy is so big you can have your cake and eat it to.

 

[mears]

SOME people have a high standard of living - and approx 55% could be said to be 'middle class', whatever that impossibly vague term means. some 30% - in the worlds most powerful nation - live in poverty, going by UN yardsticks. I am yet to encounter a first world country with a bigger gap between rich and poor

Really, 30% of Americans live in poverty as defined by the UN?

Its the first I ever heard of that

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

That's likely to be the deal.

All those fat-bellied Cuban fascists sitting pretty in the US will be looking to re-establish Cuba as an outpost of tolerated organised crime, plus the usual sweatshops for US business of course.

That's the past, even if anyone wanted to, it can't be resurrected.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

i would not describe myself as a 'Castro Lover' (whatever one of those is), but I have used to ineernet in Cuba, the infrastructure is old and fucked but I did not find any evidence of censorship, I managed to log on the several anti Castro miami based sites when I used an internet cafe in Vinales, also amnesty internationals site

Edited to add: No, not only tourists could use it, there were queues of school kids waiting outside the cafes

So Eita is full of shit then?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Better to be a clown than a naive fool.


They don't have to, but given your government's indebtedness to the Florida Cubans,

For what: the Bay of Pigs?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

4. the gay sex thing...i simply think your barking up the tree there son because as far as i remember the Cuban constitution prevents any such discrimination of any sexual form....and i seen many gay men while i was there.

http://film.guardian.co.uk/features/featurepages/0,4120,503323,00.html

 

[JoePolitix]

http://film.guardian.co.uk/features/featurepages/0,4120,503323,00.html

Or alternatively try these:

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43b/172.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cuba/story/0,11983,712614,00.html

 

[nino_savatte]

http://film.guardian.co.uk/features/featurepages/0,4120,503323,00.html

Er, a film review?

 

[cemertyone]

Er, a film review?

I thought that as well.....

But do any of those articles actually indicate systematic across the board discrimination???
Perhaps the person mentioned by Tatchall incurried the wrath of the government NOT because he was a homosexual per say but because of his political activities and his homosexuality was merly used as an excuse to persucute him. Not very nice for him but it hardly indicates a pogrom on gay people.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Here it is. I am posting this for a second time. You ignored it first time around. Its in response to the prior argument and this simiar argument.

Since you can't find a suitable retort why don't you run along now

Every country deals with other countries on their own terms. Every countries foreign policy has some measure of hypocricy, right? Or maybe you should name one that doesn't. Or is it just about the US and the Power, power of being the only super power. That is why you are pissed I know.

If the US didn't back any dictators the US would not do business with most of Africa and the ME.

So is that what the US should do? Close all relations with all dictators?

Is that what the EU should do? Not deal with Syria, Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe, China, Egypt, Sudan, Morocco, Vietnam, Kuwait, UAE and Jordan?

Just create two groups? The western democracies and everyone else?

I didn't see your other posts otherwise ive had responded in full......

It's the usual binary logic and doublethink from you Mears. I was passing judgement on your own logic and reasoning of situations and how you manage to justify anything you like, therefore meaning there is no present reality or truth as you simply get to define both of those how you like and 20 seconds later - BLAM! A new one appears. Handy eh? But then again you don't give a shit about that or the millions of people your government has killed along the way to making sure it stays No.1 in the world and keeps hold of it's power.

Why are you obsessed with power and money Mears? Do they make you feel good about yourself Mears? Does they give you a sense of identity and pride? Does they remove all those niggling doubts you have and let you sleep soundly in your bed knowing people have died and are dying in horrible ways in far off lands so you can sit on here telling folk how 'free' you are and how much you worship money?

I believe co-operation is the way forward, however that doesn't mean that you get to define what co-operation is and have ownership on it. Co-operation shouldn't extend as far as selling arms to evil dictators, actively propping up dictators for the purposes of mass slaughter, training killers in US military installations to do their dirty work for, otherthrowing democratic regimes (and the rest) as the US has done on so many occasions. But no doubt you will justify that too eh? Who appointed the US God? What right do you have to do whatever you like with other peoples lives?

And Mears since you've ignored my own comments time and time again Ill repeat them. I'd say the same if it was China, France, Brazil or whoever was the major governmental superpower. The fact you think it's just because it's about the US shows how wide and shallow your own ego is and how you'd rather deflect any critisism on to others and not look at yourself. As I've said so many times and as you've ignored so many times - people aren't anti-US, they are anti your government and for that matter all the other countries governments that share its 'principles'. The fact you chose to encompass 260m people and the US state as a whole homogenous lump when you get critisised goes to show how you are unable to seperate yourself from your country and government and how your thinking is limited to simplistic terms and ideas.

Mears is the US, the US is Mears. Can't put a cigarette paper between them. And before you ask for your usual "examples of political alternatives" Id point one thing out. Your lack of imagination and lack of willingness to think about anything else seems to me like you'd be the sort of person who would have lived under feudalism and never dared to imagine that another political alternative (ie capitalism) would have followed it. Indeed my guess is you'd have probably rubbished the idea of capitalism as a "pipe dream".