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Cuba after Castro

There used to be a Cuban joke about this - at least as old as the Clinton era, though I suspect much older.

American: In my country there is freedom of speech.
Cuban: Same here.
American: I can stand outside the White House and shout, "Clinton, your mother is a prostitute", and absolutely nothing happens to me.
Cuban: Exactly the same here. I can stand outside Fidel's house and shout "Clinton's mother is a prostitute" and absolutely nothing happens to me!

And the joke identifies a real problem in Cuba- Fidel is an authoritarian old bastard. We need to be able to say that, incidentally, to get past the charisma, the chat, the friendship with that brilliant writer but total dick head, Garcia Marquez, the "he goes to bed at midnight and gets up at 4 a.m." shit (just like Margaret Thatcher and Alvaro Uribe, in fact) and all of that other mythologising nonsense.

Reasons of state should not be used to gag the people for decades. That has weakened the revolution rather than strengthened it- in fact, I'd say it's the major problem with the revolution over the years. And it's also the main reason why the party has no credibility, and why things will probably turn sour when Castro dies, in spite of the gains of the revolution. Imagine having to read that insipid bollocks they print in Granma year after year. Just as well you can use it to wipe your arse...

But as usual mears picks up on one single point and keeps on repeating it, like some kind of idiot-savant (hang on, let's scratch the "savant" part). It's like his catch-phrase "All America all the time" which seems to sum up what he thinks is his role here- to spout some half-digested ideological line that tries to present the world's leading terror state as the cuddly home of democracy.

So Cuba has an authoritarian regime, fine, point taken. But he won't accept the fantastic achievements of the revolution. He won't compare the state of Cuba in terms of health care, education, life expectancy, all round quality of life to his own paradise where all that counts is the dollar bill and where millions have no health insurance. What a barbaric shit hole that place is! And given the vast advantages that the US has, to even think of comparing what was a tiny sugar republic and offshore brothel for the mafia to the world's richest economy is nothing short of staggering. For it to come out ahead in so many ways is a crushing indictment of US capitalism.

Of course, we shouldn't be comparing Cuba to the US anyway. We should be comparing it to wonderful democracies like the Dominican Republic, where teenagers die from machete cuts because they or their parents can't afford antibiotics. (They always conveniently forget about Trujillo, as well as their invaion to crush a real popular movement in the 60s). Or Colombia or Mexico, with half the population living in poverty. Those millions of people who wake up each morning wondering how to fuck they are going to feed and clothe their kids- how many of them wouldn't look at the shittiest barrio in Centro Habana and say, "Christ, I wish I lived there!"

But the Americans have no answer to that. The last thing they want is for a vast social experiment to take place and actually work, even partially. Neoliberal capitalism (as an ideology, cos it's still all about protectionism as far as the US is concerned) has nothing to offer Latin America. All the US does is keep people in their slums, keep people living on rubbish tips, keep people dying from lack of health care, keep people living in despair. Because to do anything about it might just stop them making such a vast profit out of misery. And if any fucker tries to do anything about it what do they do? Invade, blockade, carry out acts of terror.

mears won't engage with any of that. All he'll say is "All America all the time". Now, I'm all in favour of debate, but mears, good boy, why don't you be a nice chap and FUCK OFF.
 
mears said:
In other words artisitc freedom is severly curtailed.

But its all part and parcel of a single party dictatorship.

Yep, there is little aristic freedom, because they're worried that freedoms they allow will be exploited by terrorists, threatening their 'Revolution'.

Edited to add- Based on past experience and America's records, these fears are pretty justified.

But then again, Cuba does enjoy freedom from American rule which has to count for something.
 
lewislewis said:
Yep, there is little aristic freedom, because they're worried that freedoms they allow will be exploited by terrorists, threatening their 'Revolution'.

Edited to add- Based on past experience and America's records, these fears are pretty justified.

But then again, Cuba does enjoy freedom from American rule which has to count for something.

What a crass defence of tyrany and dictatorship.

The solution to Cuba's isolation is not to clamp down on the working class and take away basic democratic rights, but rather to extend democracy so that the mass of people themselves can participate in the debate of how to deal with Cuba's problems.
 
lewislewis said:
Yep, there is little aristic freedom, because they're worried that freedoms they allow will be exploited by terrorists, threatening their 'Revolution'.

Edited to add- Based on past experience and America's records, these fears are pretty justified.

But then again, Cuba does enjoy freedom from American rule which has to count for something.

But what do YOU believe. Do you support Castro's policies in regards to single party rule, artistic freedom, etc...
 
mears said:
But what do YOU believe. Do you support Castro's policies in regards to single party rule, artistic freedom, etc...

Why must you reduce everything to something religious? Why is it so important to ask the question "What do you believe in"? It is a sign of your unwillingness to discuss and debate because it is patently obvious what you are doing by asking this question: trying to close down discourse. It is actually a form of bullying..and furthermore, you don't read those posts that put you on the spot. Why are you so dishonest and evasive, mears?
 
mears said:
But what do YOU believe. Do you support Castro's policies in regards to single party rule, artistic freedom, etc...

I don't support the Cuban regime, i'm a practicing Christian and can't support states that oppress people's right to have a faith (or to not have a faith if they so wish).
I was just explaining the reasoning behind Castro's rule.
 
Udo Erasmus said:
What a crass defence of tyrany and dictatorship.

The solution to Cuba's isolation is not to clamp down on the working class and take away basic democratic rights, but rather to extend democracy so that the mass of people themselves can participate in the debate of how to deal with Cuba's problems.

I was way too pro-Castro in that statement. I was more explaining the reasons for his policies rather than issuing my unreserved support.

I do think America should stop attacking Cuba though and do have solidarity with their people who have had to put up with alot over the years.
 
lewislewis said:
I don't support the Cuban regime, i'm a practicing Christian and can't support states that oppress people's right to have a faith (or to not have a faith if they so wish).
I was just explaining the reasoning behind Castro's rule.

OK, thanks
 
JoePolitix said:
Interesting analysis of the motives behind the US's Cuba plan:

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1778

My response to Bush's remarks - "Not another axis of evil" - whenever Bush starts talking about 'axis' I see Cheney behind him pulling the puppet strings.

I think it's a good thing that Venezuela can exchange its oil for doctors - there and in Bolivia - but I sense that saving lives isn't at the top of Bush's wish list for South America.
 
Wanted to post this on this thread - a little noted passage from that new book by Woodward, "A State of Denial", showing the culture of denial and lies around the BUsh cabinet.

There's a lengthy extract from Woodward's book ,plus interviews in the current online Newsweak here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15075326/site/newsweek/

Most of it is about Iraq failures...

This is interesting, page 5 of the extract:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15075326...wsweek/page/5/
jay GArner ran Iraq after the invasion...
Rumsfeld and Garner went to the White House to see Bush. It was Garner’s second time with the president. “Mr. President, let me tell you a couple of stories,” Garner said. Describing meetings with Iraqis, Garner painted a positive picture. “I’d get ready to leave,” Garner said, “and this is true—as I leave they’re all thumbs-up and they’d say, ‘God bless Mr. George Bush and Mr. Tony Blair. Thank you for taking away Saddam Hussein.’ That was in 70 meetings. That always was the final response.”

“Oh, that’s good,” Bush said.

On the way out, Bush slapped Garner on the back. “Hey Jay, you want to do Iran?”

“Sir, the boys and I talked about that and we want to hold out for Cuba. We think the rum and the cigars are a little better … The women are prettier.”

Bush laughed. “You got it. You got Cuba.”
 
when castro retires , cuba will imo stay the same, protecting the revolution has been taught for decades.
 
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