Cross River Tram

[rich!]

To see it in with the East London Line, Crossrail and Flying Pigs service see : http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/transport/docs/transportmap2016.pdf

looking at that map, two things spring to mind:

have you noticed that the symbol for a Eurostar link looks like a self-propelled-gun firing to the East?

is the "Flying Pigs" the airship connection between Alexandra Port and Crystal Palace?

 

[Callie]

They should put right along Streatham High Road - get rid of the crappy barrier and plant pots and stick a dutty great tram line running straight to Croydon.

what would you want to go to croydon for??

 

[Roadkill]

i think that in large part this is probably due to the fact that london's transport is already running at capacity (probably beyond its capacity in the tube's case), and that most people in london rely on public transport while a lower percentage rely on it in other cities - there was an article a couple of weeks ago when it was 20 years since buses were deregulated saying that outside of london, local bus use has halved in that time while fares have doubled, and in london useage has doubled (mainly since ken was elected, and mainly because TfL has powers which Merseytravel, NExus etc don't have). what i mean is that in london improvements to public transport are necessary to stop the city coming to a standstill - improvements in other cities are very desirable, and i would argue necessary for environmental and social reasons, but those cities are getting on ok with the transport systems they have.

Many aren't, or won't be soon if traffic continues to grow at the current rate.

I think we urgently need to be looking at developing TfL-style bodies around other areas of population to achieve the same in terms of public transport usage that TfL has in London. At the moment, the systems for funding and providing public transport are too piecemeal and can't raise money in the way that TfL can, and it shows in the quality of the services provided, which is why usage has fallen in the way you mention above

I was wrong in my point on investment figures though, mainly because I was indulging in a northerner's grumble about London rather than actually looking at the figures!

 

[cybertect]

jUST GO FOR THE SIMPLEST AND CHEAPEST - YOU CAN UPGRADE LATER.! Tatra trams second hand from Eastern Europe would do to get things going

I'd be somewhat surprised if they met the requirements of the disability access legislation that's come into force in the last few years.

 

[Crispy]

Oh my - I just found the London transport spod's wet dream website: http://www.alwaystouchout.com/ - Their CRT page states that the Aldwych tram tunnel will not be used to carry the tram - It will run on the street. It is a very wide street, after all.

 

[cybertect]

Not True - the tram promoters still have to present their business case and have it approved - difficult as the costs have gone up from an original estimate of 300 million to nearer 700 million so hopefully it'll be thrown out soon.

Apologies. You're right. I'd erroneously assumed that the successful passage of the relevant Bills through the Scottish Parliament had sealed the deal.

Move Edinburgh to the 'watch this space' column.

 

[cybertect]

Oh my - I just found the London transport spod's wet dream website: http://www.alwaystouchout.com/ - Their CRT page states that the Aldwych tram tunnel will not be used to carry the tram

boo!

 

[ELO]

looking at that ( http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/transport/docs/transportmap2016.pdf) map, two things spring to mind:

have you noticed that the symbol for a Eurostar link looks like a self-propelled-gun firing to the East?

is the "Flying Pigs" the airship connection between Alexandra Port and Crystal Palace?

Good question.

I assume 'flying pigs' was crossrail, although he could also mean the West London Tram, which so many residents are against (dunno why?)

Or somthing else............Jaed?

 

[PacificOcean]

On that 2016 map why is Crossrail not connecting with Canary Wharf, instead having a marooned station called Isle of Dogs?

I thought the whole point of Crossrail was to link everything up?

 

[Mr T]

I think we urgently need to be looking at developing TfL-style bodies around other areas of population to achieve the same in terms of public transport usage that TfL has in London.

I agree - there is a Transport Bill at an early stage in parliament at the moment, and I know that PTEG are lobbying heavily for the power to regulate bus services the way TfL can. I think blair answered a question about it in PMQs last week to the effect of "its a good idea but we're not going to turn the clock back", but its probably worth writing to your MP if you live in a metropolitan area to pressure them to back it.


As for the West London Tram, I was told on my TfL induction that route 207/607 currently carries more passengers each year than the entire Manchester Metrolink system (which carried 18m in 2004). With such heavy patronage a tram system with higher capacity and more reliable journey times should be a no-brainer...

 

[se5]

Boris cancels Cross River Tram

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7712002.stm

So it looks like congestion will not be eased in Brixton and the wider South London area - no great surpirse I guess

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7712002.stm

So it looks like congestion will not be eased in Brixton and the wider South London area - no great surpirse I guess

Was the CLT actually likely to cut car traffic though? Most people going from Brixton to the centre are already likely to be on PT surely?

 

[Dan U]

i'd rather he scrapped the routemaster idea and put the money towards some of these other projects like the tram extension tbh.

 

[Nanker Phelge]

i'd rather he scrapped the routemaster idea and put the money towards some of these other projects like the tram extension tbh.

That Boris loves a Routemaster and A Stella Artois!

 

[Zachor]

That Boris loves a Routemaster and A Stella Artois!

Boris - the only Tory I would consider shagging.

 

[PacificOcean]

Good.

A waste of money on areas already served very well by public transport.

Even though I would rather eat hot lava than ever vote for a Tory, I am glad Boris is paying attention to us in the far flung corners of Zones 4 to 6.

 

[se5]

But it would be a start - I know from speaking to my GLA member (and Chair of the GLA Transport Committee) Valerie Shawcross that it was hoped that this would offer act as the foundation for a new service with plans long term to link up with the Croydon tram and outwards to serve places which are currently poorly served by transport in inner and outer London.

Also TfL projections show that the levels of traffic on the current public transport routes are going to increase greatly so the tram would have relieved the pressure on teh tube/buses etc

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Good, anything that inhibits the possibility of the bog dwellers dwelling south of the river from crossing and cluttering up the north is a good thing in my view.

 

[PacificOcean]

But it would be a start - I know from speaking to my GLA member (and Chair of the GLA Transport Committee) Valerie Shawcross that it was hoped that this would offer act as the foundation for a new service with plans long term to link up with the Croydon tram and outwards to serve places which are currently poorly served by transport in inner and outer London.

Also TfL projections show that the levels of traffic on the current public transport routes are going to increase greatly so the tram would have relieved the pressure on teh tube/buses etc

No one ever explained exactly how they were going to fit a tram through very busy single lane roads from Brixton to Central London and then through the West End itself.

The Croydon and Manchester trams worked as they went over old railway lines.

 

[se5]

No one ever explained exactly how they were going to fit a tram through very busy single lane roads from Brixton to Central London and then through the West End itself.

The Croydon and Manchester trams worked as they went over old railway lines.

We managed it in the past - up until about 1955 there was an extensive tram system across all London : it just requires reallocation of road space from private cars to trams or so that trams have priority. Other capital cities seem to manage it so why cant London?

 

[1927]

We managed it in the past - up until about 1955 there was an extensive tram system across all London : it just requires reallocation of road space from private cars to trams or so that trams have priority. Other capital cities seem to manage it so why cant London?

July 1952 actually, have some tickets somewhere that my gran gave me fromk the last week.

 

[Callie]

We managed it in the past - up until about 1955 there was an extensive tram system across all London :

I doubt there was anywhere near as much road traffic back then though.

it just requires reallocation of road space from private cars to trams or so that trams have priority. Other capital cities seem to manage it so why cant London?

is there any evidence that the presence of trams reduce car use?

 

[HackneyE9]

is there any evidence that the presence of trams reduce car use?

Yes. Google it yourself, you troll.

 

[PacificOcean]

Yes. Google it yourself, you troll.

I doubt that a tram would affect car use on this route.

There is already a tube connection and if that isn't enough to get someone out of their car, I can't see an even slower tram doing it.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

I doubt that a tram would affect car use on this route.

There is already a tube connection and if that isn't enough to get someone out of their car, I can't see an even slower tram doing it.

I agree with Pacific Ocean. Trams are a good idea in cities with no tube (manchester, nottingham) or in tubeless areas of London.

This was effectively duplication....

 

[Gramsci]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7712002.stm

So it looks like congestion will not be eased in Brixton and the wider South London area - no great surpirse I guess

He will have to concentrate on the Olympics transport links so South London will suffer.Is this his fault or a legacy or Kens and the Governments?

The Labour lot were whining about the end of the "Thames Gateway" but Greens and local people opposed it.

Just because something was started by Ken doesnt mean its relveant or good.

It would be good if B stopped the City squares schemes so Brixton doesnt have to get that stupid "Central Square" outside the Ritzy.

 

[Callie]

Yes. Google it yourself, you troll.

lol

i live in croydon, there are trams, i havent seen any evidence of reduced traffic.
hence asking if there was any evidence.

I believe the people who are using trams in croydon are people who would already be using public transport or trains not cars so how can you justify taking car road space away for trams if car drivers aren't going to use them.

 

[Isambard]

The resources saved aren't going to be rellocated to the outer zones, don't you beleive it. The West London tram that would have given a rail based system to the Uxbridge Road is already cancelled.

And even if it had duplicated the Charing Cross branch of the Northern Line to an extent, it would have increased capacity and therefore offered commuters from further out some benefit.

There are loads of designs of tram routes that can either be seperate from road traffic or mixed with it on the same space and vary between the two.

 

[lang rabbie]

It would be good if B stopped the City squares schemes so Brixton doesnt have to get that stupid "Central Square" outside the Ritzy.

No such luck - that project (which appears to deliver the "public transport benefits" of actually delaying every bus route to Brixton Hill, Streatham, Tulse Hill and Norwood) continues to have a charmed life.

Public realm improvements

TfL is committed to improving the quality of life, including the health and
wellbeing of Londoners. A number of specific station access and town centre
schemes are being implemented in this Plan to enhance London’s public
realm, including completion of the improvements to Brixton Central Square,
Gants Hill station environs, Tottenham Hale and supporting the innovative
Exhibition Road proposals in South Kensington.

TfL Business Plan 2009-10 to 2017-18

 

[HackneyE9]

lol

i live in croydon, there are trams, i havent seen any evidence of reduced traffic.
hence asking if there was any evidence.

I believe the people who are using trams in croydon are people who would already be using public transport or trains not cars so how can you justify taking car road space away for trams if car drivers aren't going to use them.

Cancel the transport policy - we'll just go with Callie's instinct, beliefs and gut feelings