Criticisms of John Pilger?
- Thread starter tbaldwin
- Start date
fela fan said:
Yes i know Politicians,Journalists,people who go on Bulletin boards we are all human and all get things wrong....
But the thing is that some people seem to want people too look up too fairly uncritically.
And Pilger does seem a bit up his own arse at times..
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Why is it that anyone who has the nerve to actually tell it like it is instead of mincing their words and pussyfooting around the issue get labelled 'hysterical'?tbaldwin said:
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
I think Pilger does a far better job than many.
tbaldwin said:
It would have stopped british involvement in the massacre in iraq, the thing everybody had the temerity to call a war. It was a blatant butchering of the civilian population.
It would lead to a new generation of journalists less susceptible to self-censorship, and more prone to getting their hands dirty and going out to find the news instead of gathering it in bars.
tbaldwin said:
Well, i have another post for the man's defence!
His edited book called 'tell no lies' where he presents his collection of favourite journalists with their own articles, from all around the world. One in particular sticks in my memory, an article by eduardo galiano (sp could be dodgy) who starts out by saying we live in an upside down world where lies and truth have been changed around...
My point is that pilger also has an excellent eye for other top class journos.
Here, a link to some reviews of the book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tell-No-Lies-Investigative-Journalism/dp/0224062883
[ps, i do like pilger's term 'official guardians of the truth' that he often uses.]
tbaldwin said:
One comment I remember [I'm sure you could find others]
http://www.lewrockwell.com/pilger/pilger14.html
ska invita
back on the other side
He rants to the converted - sometimes you its good to have a dose of that though
niksativa said:
I think less so than say a chomsky. I think he does as good a job as anyone at reaching out to the not 'converted'. I know in the past, reaction to his documentary films by the general public has been overwhelming.
But print media is more longlasting in its efforts at overturning injustices in the world, and that is indeed the whole problem for journos and writers: how to reach the unconverted and those that simply don't know who the real criminals in this world are.
Can you think of anyone that does a better job than pilger?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
The Guardian? A bit too middle class for you - isn't it?
Idris2002 said:
Surely that's, the Mike Tyson of investigative left wing journos?? Muhammed Ali earned every penny from his fights, but then had to return to the ring because of the fact he was broke. (Look into Don King's involvement on the matter)
Since his contraction of Parkinson's, he has sold books, made speeches, supported charities and more.
No bad words against the Legend please.
fela fan said:
Fela i think Polly Toynbee isnt too bad she seems to have a much more balanced and credible world view than Pilgers which really seems to be about playing to the gallery of middle class failures and public school trots that make up the liberal left...
See that isn't really an argument - that's just an invokation of a series of caricatures that have been created by American conservatives to avoid talking about actual issues. I find it quite depressing when people from the UK get sucked into using these cliches.
Here's a rule of thumb. Whenever you find yourself using the words "liberal left", you've probably got a really weak argument - and are therefore probably wrong.
Out of curiosity, does Polly Toynbee do anything other than opinion journalism?... ie: actually go to war zones and fucked up dangerous places - to report on things that would otherwise be covered up?... like (for example) John Pilger does?
Here's a rule of thumb. Whenever you find yourself using the words "liberal left", you've probably got a really weak argument - and are therefore probably wrong.
Out of curiosity, does Polly Toynbee do anything other than opinion journalism?... ie: actually go to war zones and fucked up dangerous places - to report on things that would otherwise be covered up?... like (for example) John Pilger does?
tbaldwin said:
Mate i've not read her for quite a while, but i recall nothing good about her then. I can't remember what it was she wrote, but the last time i read something i had to pick my eyes up off the newsprint and shove back into their sockets. Unbearable it was.
Even so, i can't see how you put pilger's gallery in this light. I don't think pilger sees a gallery as such. He has always been about going somewhere and reporting about it as he sees it through his eyes. I think he's one of the few journos who concentrates on speaking about what he sees, rather than speaking what he thinks people want to hear.
Whereas so many of british journos are like a toynbee: they never go anywhere and give us little more than their opinions. And they certainly do write with their audience in mind.
I may be biased, i read a book by pilger years back and it was him who opened my eyes up to what goes on in the world. But in any case, i see him as a reporter with two qualities that are unbeatable: honesty and a seeker of justice.
I'm afraid you're going to have to do a bit better with any challengers to the man!
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
I thought you were some sort of soi-disant (that means "self-styled btw, because I know how much you hate education and learning, so you will have no knowledge of that French word) defender of the working class. It seems to me that you've been talking shite regarding your proletarian 'credentials'.
Shouldn't you be reading The Star or The Sun? Good, solid w/c newspapers those.
nick1181 said:
Polly Toynbee is far too Liberal for me to share much of her politics but to give her credit she does at least go beyond the cosy stand of the comfortably dumb middle class left. She has a far more balanced view of New Labours successes and failures....And no she isnt a War Journalist,so what?
nino_savatte said:I thought you were some sort of soi-disant (that means "self-styled btw, because I know how much you hate education and learning, so you will have no knowledge of that French word) defender of the working class. It seems to me that you've been talking shite regarding your proletarian 'credentials'.
Shouldn't you be reading The Star or The Sun? Good, solid w/c newspapers those.
I dont hate education....I dislike educational privellege. even a Tory twat like you should understand there is a difference.
tbaldwin said:
If she isn't actually going out and reporting facts, then she's much more likely to be playing to a gallery (as you put it) than someone who is.
But anyway - there you go going on about "liberals" and "the left" again - you can't address actual issues so you have to fall back on attacking vague caricatures.
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