Critical Mass - what's the point?

[newme]

Are politicians in any way affected by Critical Mass? Is policy informed by it? One could argue that by antagonising other road users, politicians would be made more aware of the 'mob cyclist menace' IYSWIM.

No I think if anything its just given a clear target** to aim at instead of just 'bloody cyclists running redlights' or whatever.

As thats basically the only attitude Ive seen towards it, personally doesnt affect me one way or the other. Does seem overly antagonistic for no clear reward however.




edit
** for criticism.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Ironically, with a few word tweaks here and there, the spirit of this message is exactly how I feel as a walker in the woods when considering the mountain bikers that see it all as their playground.

Isn't it just. Especially around Abinger & Holmbury St. Mary, there's fucking hundreds of them bombing about and they don't slow down when they see my dog or daughter

 

[editor]

So, best the cyclists give up and keep quiet for fear of upsetting a few drivers for a few minutes once a month, then. Or even have a bit of harmless fun.

It's funny how car drivers don't seem to get half so worked up when the congestion is caused by other cars isn't it?

 

[mauvais]

I ride everywhere, don't have a car, and I fully agree with the OP.

CM is, in its political sense, the polar opposite of what I want, which is to be treated as if I were driving a small and slightly slow car. I just want to be able to continue to ride safely and get the same respect back in return. For the most part I get exactly that, and I appreciate it.

CM, segregated cycle lanes, half the other schemes people come out with - personally I don't want any of that. I ride on the road, fast, and mixed with the traffic. For me this stuff just polarises attitudes into 'them & us', and that's more dangerous than anything to me.

 

[mauvais]

Isn't it just. Especially around Abinger & Holmbury St. Mary, there's fucking hundreds of them bombing about and they don't slow down when they see my dog or daughter

This might be true in some cases, but it's just more polarisation tbh. Almost all of the MTB lot I've met on the trail have been friendly & courteous, as have the walkers and horse riders I encounter, and I show the same respect back - it's not hard. Then it winds me up when I get lumped in either with a false stereotype or the minority who do misbehave. I read in Singletrack this week that this seems to be a British thing - hikers & bikers mix a lot better abroad, in this case Slovenia. It's a shame it can't always be like that here.

 

[kabbes]

Isn't it just. Especially around Abinger & Holmbury St. Mary, there's fucking hundreds of them bombing about and they don't slow down when they see my dog or daughter

Precisely the area I was thinking of, actually. That's exactly where we walk our dog too.

Off-topic, but it is possible I've even seen you around the place.

 

[editor]

I ride on the road, fast, and mixed with the traffic. For me this stuff just polarises attitudes into 'them & us', and that's more dangerous than anything to me.

So what about other cyclists who don't have your levels of confidence and fitness?

 

[Lanky_bike]

Isn't it just. Especially around Abinger & Holmbury St. Mary, there's fucking hundreds of them bombing about and they don't slow down when they see my dog or daughter

Get in touch with [email protected] - The Hurtwood has put a lot of effort into developing and managing mountain bike trails, but not at the expense of keeping other users out of their estate. They may give you some information on which trails are bikes-only and which are mixed use. You'll also be glad to hear they're stopping the development of any new trails, and they've de-commissioned a couple.

Southerners with mountain bikes always seemed funny to me, but apparently they've built a hill or something...

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

This might be true in some cases, but it's just more polarisation tbh. Almost all of the MTB lot I've met on the trail have been friendly & courteous, as have the walkers and horse riders I encounter, and I show the same respect back - it's not hard. Then it winds me up when I get lumped in either with a false stereotype or the minority who do misbehave. I read in Singletrack this week that this seems to be a British thing - hikers & bikers mix a lot better abroad, in this case Slovenia. It's a shame it can't always be like that here.

I cycle a lot on the Thames tow-path where there are signs everywhere stating that pedestrians have the right of way. I have a bell and when coming up to walkers I sound it. If they have children or dogs with them I slow down almost to a halt, as both dogs and kids have a habit of just jumping out in front of you.

However the number of cyclists who don't have the sense/manners to do this is shocking.

I also cycle in the Surrey Hills , where despite the lack of signs, common decency says to behave in the way I do on the tow-path. Again the number of other cyclists who just bomb around with no thought of others is shocking.

As a long time cyclist and walker on both tow-path and Surrey Hills I can say with some certantity that considerate cyclists are very much in the minority.

They don't set out to be wankers, they just don't think of others. Which seems to be an increasing problem with people in this country, in all areas of life, not just transport.

 

[kabbes]

Get in touch with [email protected] - The Hurtwood has put a lot of effort into developing and managing mountain bike trails, but not at the expense of keeping other users out of their estate. They may give you some information on which trails are bikes-only and which are mixed use. You'll also be glad to hear they're stopping the development of any new trails, and they've de-commissioned a couple.

Southerners with mountain bikes always seemed funny to me, but apparently they've built a hill or something...

It's no good. I'm a "Friend of the Hurt Wood" and know it very well indeed. The problem is that the bikers just ignore the bike tracks, preferring instead to play slalom between the trees and ending by hitting the footpath at the bottom of a hill at 20mph.

Incidentally, Leith Hill is the highest point in the South-East and Holmbury Hill is the second. That may sound like the tallest dwarf competition, but it still feels pretty steep when you are walking up it!

 

[Lanky_bike]

So what about other cyclists who don't have your levels of confidence and fitness?

Perhaps they could ride slowly through city centres once a month blowing whistles...that'd sort it all out.

 

[mauvais]

The only thing that really strikes me as a good idea is better education, for all road users. Drivers that haven't got a clue what riding is like or know what a sensible gap is, cyclists that don't know any of the Highway Code or realise that they look like ninjas.

A lot of this should apply to MTB too.

I already get grief from drivers for not using cycle paths - once I got chased around for miles and ended up ringing 999 after a dispute over exactly that - so I'm really not in favour of segregation. If anything, that would finally tempt me to get a car.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Off-topic, but it is possible I've even seen you around the place.

It's quite possible, I'll be the one with a black&white dog chasing everything with a view to humping it (the dog's female BTW), a daughter collecting every single fucking leaf, flower, nut, pine cone etc. for some mysterious future 'nature picture' and a look on my face that says I want to get to the pub in Holmbury for Sunday lunch and a few pints

 

[Lanky_bike]

It's no good. I'm a "Friend of the Hurt Wood" and know it very well indeed. The problem is that the bikers just ignore the bike tracks, preferring instead to play slalom between the trees and ending by hitting the footpath at the bottom of a hill at 20mph.

A shame - "Sorry, we're not all like that" isn't much to offer. Lack of consideration just seems to be one of humanity's most unattractive yet common traits

Perhaps you could walk slowly through the woods once a month, blowing whi...

Never mind.

 

[kabbes]

It's quite possible, I'll be the one with a black&white dog chasing everything with a view to humping it (the dog's female BTW), a daughter collecting every single fucking leaf, flower, nut, pine cone etc. for some mysterious future 'nature picture' and a look on my face that says I want to get to the pub in Holmbury for Sunday lunch and a few pints

The Royal Oak or the Kings Head? Actually, you should try The Parrot in Forest Green, because it beats the lot of them. They own their own farm!

We're the ones with the lanky collie dog that desperately wants to make friends with every dog in the whole woods. We'll be wearing a whistle that we will probably be attempting to blow in a futile attempt to get the dog to come back to us. You will know me, for I will be wearing unfashionable clothing.

 

[newme]

It's funny how car drivers don't seem to get half so worked up when the congestion is caused by other cars isn't it?

lol they do, pretty much everyone on the roads, in or on any kind of transport or not, seems to have some issue with one or other of the other users. Car users are no different, road rage isnt just against cyclists, infact its generally at other cars iirc.

As far as critical mass is concerned, the difference between that and virtually any other form of congestion on the roads is.. critical mass is deliberate. If the exact same problem was caused by a number of slow moving cars blocking the entire road and making it far beyond obvious that causing delays was actually the idea of it. Then people would be just as angry.

The vast majority couldnt give a shit whose causing the problem, they just want it minimised as much as possible and not in there face deliberately stopping them from getting home and enjoying the weekend. That just breeds resentment.

 

[editor]

Lack of consideration just seems to be one of humanity's most unattractive yet common traits

Indeed. And some cyclists witness that first hand on the roads every day.

Some get killed too.

 

[editor]

As far as critical mass is concerned, the difference between that and virtually any other form of congestion on the roads is.. critical mass is deliberate.

I'd say that fit and healthy single occupant drivers poodling along for a mile to the shops and back are wilfully and selfishly contributing to congestion too, with the added bonus of extra pollution and noise for everyone else.

 

[fredfelt]

A shame - "Sorry, we're not all like that" isn't much to offer. Lack of consideration just seems to be one of humanity's most unattractive yet common traits

Perhaps you could walk slowly through the woods once a month, blowing whi...

Never mind.

Interesting comparison though. For pleasure people go out walking together. For pleasure people also go out cycling together.

I'm in agreement with you though, in terms of getting a better lot for the cyclist I don't think CM helps. But it doesn't need to either.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The Royal Oak or the Kings Head? Actually, you should try The Parrot in Forest Green, because it beats the lot of them. They own their own farm!

We're the ones with the lanky collie dog that desperately wants to make friends with every dog in the whole woods. We'll be wearing a whistle that we will probably be attempting to blow in a futile attempt to get the dog to come back to us. You will know me, for I will be wearing unfashionable clothing.

Kings Head (if that's the one on the green, next to the church), with the anti-Alistair Darling posters and bouncy castle in the back garden for the brat.

Will give the Parrot a go though, thanks for the tip.

 

[kabbes]

Kings Head (if that's the one on the green, next to the church), with the anti-Alistair Darling posters and bouncy castle in the back garden for the brat.

Will give the Parrot a go though, thanks for the tip.

No, that's the Royal Oak! We live about a mile from there.

The Parrot won "fifth best pub in Britain for food" earlier this year, if that is any incentive. it has a farm shop inside it too. And it doesn't have a cheese board, it has a cheese book. Mmmmmm, cheese.

 

[Crispy]

Indeed. And some cyclists witness that first hand on the roads every day.

Indeed, but showing a lack of consideration in return is, IMO, not a good way of remedying that situation.

 

[newme]

I'd say that fit and healthy single occupant drivers poodling along for a mile to the shops and back are wilfully and selfishly contributing to congestion too, with the added bonus of extra pollution and noise for everyone else.

Maybe selfishly contributing to it, but I find wilfully slightly pushing it. Most just arent that bothered or dont think, its not deliberate its almost a non-issue. critical mass however is deliberate and all the people stuck in the queue trying to get back home are somewhat less sympathetic than they would be to the other drivers on the road trying to acheive the same goal, rather than it being completely at odds with their own.

Not to mention that I fail to believe every car on the road is a single occupant driving one mile to the shops.

 

[newme]

Indeed, but showing a lack of consideration in return is, IMO, not a good way of remedying that situation.

Even more so, the random acts can at least be attributed to 'that twat in the bmw' or whatever, however this is an actual organised event specifically designed to cause disruption.

Oddly enough that provokes more outrage.

 

[fredfelt]

The vast majority couldnt give a shit whose causing the problem, they just want it minimised as much as possible and not in there face deliberately stopping them from getting home and enjoying the weekend. That just breeds resentment.

You are right, the vast majority do not give a shit what is causing the problem. They forget that when they drive into the city they are part of the problem.

 

[newme]

You are right, the vast majority do not give a shit what is causing the problem. They forget that when they drive into the city they are part of the problem.

Well tbh if you actually live in London, I dont see a large point in getting a car for general use, Im sure there are a plethora of exceptions to this. If your visiting then what else are you gonna do, trains are an expensive inconvenient disaster area, planes are patchy about managing to get what you want where you want for a decent price without getting screwed on taxes and hardly the best environment wise if your just going across the country. Far easier and safer, especially with luggage or kids to take the car, deal with the stupid congestion tax and not get stranded waiting for public transport.

 

[Lanky_bike]

I'd say that fit and healthy single occupant drivers poodling along for a mile to the shops and back are wilfully and selfishly contributing to congestion too, with the added bonus of extra pollution and noise for everyone else.

Yeah, but they don't adopt a sanctimonious holier-than-thou attitude and believe they're achieving anything beyond buying a pint of milk.

Also (now I think about it) CM worsens the pollution of the cars caught behind it by forcing them to crawl along in the least efficient fashion. Yes, the cars being there is a bad thing, but CM succeeds in making it worse. Top skills.

 

[editor]

Indeed, but showing a lack of consideration in return is, IMO, not a good way of remedying that situation.

But it's not a display of a 'lack of consideration.' It's a regular event that briefly puts cyclists first.

For most car drivers who just happen to be in the area, it's a minor inconvenience that passes in minutes.

I can't believe that you of all people should be against cyclists making such a peaceful and brief protest - motorists dish out congestion, pollution and inconvenience every day, so I can't see what's to get worked up about when it's just a bunch of cyclists having a bit of slightly anarchic fun.

Not to mention that I fail to believe every car on the road is a single occupant driving one mile to the shops.

Did I make that claim? The majority of cars on the road are, however, single occupant, and a large percentage of journeys are two miles or less.

 

[editor]

Yeah, but they don't adopt a sanctimonious holier-than-thou attitude and believe they're achieving anything beyond buying a pint of milk.

And now you've engaged Daily Mail mode again.

Also (now I think about it) CM worsens the pollution of the cars caught behind it by forcing them to crawl along in the least efficient fashion.

If you're that worried about pollution, start lobbying to vastly reduce the millions of cars that are clogging up the roads 24/7. By comparison, a handful of cyclists on CM only cause a truly microscopic increase, if any.

 

[fredfelt]

Well tbh if you actually live in London, I dont see a large point in getting a car for general use, Im sure there are a plethora of exceptions to this. If your visiting then what else are you gonna do, trains are an expensive inconvenient disaster area, planes are patchy about managing to get what you want where you want for a decent price without getting screwed on taxes and hardly the best environment wise if your just going across the country. Far easier and safer, especially with luggage or kids to take the car, deal with the stupid congestion tax and not get stranded waiting for public transport.

That's fine. Use the road how you see fit.

On occasion I'll use the road to get around, chat to friends, listen to music etc. I'll just do it on my bike. I might do it with some friends at the same time.