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Critical Mass Illegal! (EDIT: not any more)

tippee said:
Exactly. The problem is cyclists are the most 'holier than thou' of all road users.

Why don't you all just take your bikes on a train to a station in the sticks and go for a ride in the countryside? Because you prefer to piss people off who are working / going home/ in need of an ambulance etc.

Critical mass = selfish, holier than thou twits.
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Car driving is polluting. Car driving causes more congestion. Cars kill people.

Bicycles don't.

Nothing will shake my belief that most people drive cars because they're lazy and selfish and don't really care about the rest of the world. Therefore anything that will incentivise them to think about using their cars less is a good thing.

Unless you're disabled, or really old, or your job depends on it, you don't need to be driving a car in central London. End of.
 
Well now, I've been on Critical Mass becuase I thought it was a reasonable way to promote cycling, raise awareness of environmental issues, have some fun. It was fine.

I've also sat in a van full of funiture, on my way North and having arranged to meet someone at a services in the Midlands, in a queue the legnth of Park Lane on a Friday evening and mused (1) how many people in that queue were being alienated from cyclists and from environmental issues and (2) how much pollution was being spewed out by gridlocked traffic.

Asking for pre-notice of the route seems perfectly reasonable to me, to keep traffic disruption to senisble bounds and (2) to provide for emergencies, either amongst the cyclists or others needing emergency services.
 
pooka said:
(1) how many people in that queue were being alienated from cyclists and from environmental issues and
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If you stop caring about environmental issues just because you got held up on your way home you're clearly a cunt. I don't think people are that cunty.
pooka said:
(2) how much pollution was being spewed out by gridlocked traffic.
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People should turn their engines off then shouldn't they.

pooka said:
Asking for pre-notice of the route seems perfectly reasonable to me, to keep traffic disruption to senisble bounds and (2) to provide for emergencies, either amongst the cyclists or others needing emergency services.
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Except it would be the death of the event, because anyone applying for permission could be told 'no', it would legitimise it as a demonstration and the police might ask for costs etc.

I kind of sympathise with your point about emergency services, but how is this different to congestion in the rush hour (perhaps people doing the school run should leave their cars at home just in case an ambulance has to get through quickly...)

I also suspect the level of disruption to emergency services is overstated. I'd like to see a comment from someone in an ambulance service before I fully buy that line.
 
I don't think people 'stop caring about environmental issues because they are held up on the way home'. But people who might be open to persuasion are not warmed to the cause by the apparent selfish behaviour of its exponents.

Switching your engine on and off in traffic that is inching slowly forward is probably even more polluting.

I think, having seen the event from both sides, that when whizzing along on your bike, you're not concious of just how widespread traffic disruption can be in a city centre. The knock-on can spread a considerable distance.

If the police say 'no', then that would surely be challengeable in court, would it not?
 
pooka said:
I don't think people 'stop caring about environmental issues because they are held up on the way home'. But people who might be open to persuasion are not warmed to the cause by the apparent selfish behaviour of its exponents.
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I suspect it doesn't have much of an impact either way. But I certainly think more people will think "Oh driving my car on this friday is a pain, let's not bother", than will think "God what wankers, I'm going to invest in some coal-fired power stations in China" IYSWIM.

Environmentally harmful behaviour is indulged in because of its convenience, not to make a point. If you erode that convenience it's a fair bet that you'll reduce the behaviour.

pooka said:
I think, having seen the event from both sides, that when whizzing along on your bike, you're not concious of just how widespread traffic disruption can be in a city centre. The knock-on can spread a considerable distance.
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I don't doubt it can. (but that's kind of the point ;) ) I'd still like to hear an ambulance drivers' point of view.

pooka said:
If the police say 'no', then that would surely be challengeable in court, would it not?
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Having to go to court to get permission to go on critical mass? Lunacy.
 
editor said:
Come on! Critical Mass is just a temporary inconvenience no worse than a bus breaking down or an everyday traffic jam. It's short lived, fun, almost always peaceful and hardly a 'public order' problem in any sense of the word. You'd get more trouble in the city pubs on a Friday night.
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if this was a regular car rally through london i'll bet you'd be spitting feathers...there'd be no such thing as just a bit of incovenience then...

editor said:
I'd disagree that cyclists never let pedestrians cross too. Sure, some don't, but I've always let them cross and see loads of C Massers doing the same - but obviously they can't stop every time for every single ped else the ride would fall apart in minutes.
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i wonder fi Detective Boy could advise you of what would happen to a driver who attempted to use this excuse in court to justify jumping a pedestrain crossing...

why doesn't the highway code apply to cyclists... or rather why do you think it doesn't...
 
well I only go when the feds threathen it and I must say now that i am rolling round pon me recycled bike I might make a regualr monthly thing. . .. it was a well good buzz the other night and biggup hiccup to urbaney cycly crew

ring a da ling ding:p
 
What do people think will happen if CM is permanently made illegal. Its been going on too long for it to suddenly stop and I can't see the coppers nicking a few hundred people on bikes, too much hassle.

In the winter the CM's are much smaller so the coppers could hand out a few warnings/on the spot fines which would deter a lot of people. If the police want to stop CM I reckon it will take them a while but they will probably suceed. I am a regular on CM but if I started getting fines/cautions I would have to think twice.
 
pooka said:
If the police say 'no', then that would surely be challengeable in court, would it not?
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It would be interesting to see a list of all the demos that have been banned by the police when application has been made ... cos there are hardly any.

Amendments to routes, some restrictions, seeking to allow the demonstration to achieve it's aims whilst minimising risk / danger / disruption to normal buisiness, etc., yes. Bans, no. The police are there to facilitate the lawful business and activity of any and every person, providing some balance / compromise where they conflict. That is what they do.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
i wonder fi Detective Boy could advise you of what would happen to a driver who attempted to use this excuse in court to justify jumping a pedestrain crossing...
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The nearest example would the custom car cruise - used to be down the Kings Road once a month - policed out of that, now based round Battersea Bridge and again robustly policed with vehicle examinations, videoing of evidence and whatever where offences are committed.
 
lenny101 said:
In the winter the CM's are much smaller so the coppers could hand out a few warnings/on the spot fines which would deter a lot of people. If the police want to stop CM I reckon it will take them a while but they will probably suceed. I am a regular on CM but if I started getting fines/cautions I would have to think twice.
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I'm not entirely sure what they'll be able to fine people for if all they're doing is progressing along a road in a legal fashion.

If the police clamped down you might just end up with the same amount of cyclists causing even more disruption by cycling slowly (so they all stay together) or stopping at every traffic light causing huge backlogs.

Can I just add - apropos of nothing - that some fucking total cunt in a 4x4 nearly carved me up in Plymouth yesterday, revving right up behind me and trying to stop me making a fully indicated turning before his oh-so important car had gone past and raced through red lights The aggressive meathead twat hurled some abuse at me, I hurled some abuse back and then apologised to a family waiting by the pedestrian crossing. I didn't expect much support, but we had a nice little moan together about ignorant, dangerous drivers for a bit. :)
 
editor said:
I'm not entirely sure what they'll be able to fine people for if all they're doing is progressing along a road in a legal fashion.

If the police clamped down you might just end up with the same amount of cyclists causing even more disruption by cycling slowly (so they all stay together) or stopping at every traffic light causing huge backlogs.

Can I just add - apropos of nothing - that some fucking total cunt in a 4x4 nearly carved me up in Plymouth yesterday, revving right up behind me and trying to stop me making a fully indicated turning before his oh-so important car had gone past and raced through red lights The aggressive meathead twat hurled some abuse at me, I hurled some abuse back and then apologised to a family waiting by the pedestrian crossing. I didn't expect much support, but we had a nice little moan together about ignorant, dangerous drivers for a bit. :)
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d-lock windscreen sorry mate if came off ...
 
editor said:
I'm not entirely sure what they'll be able to fine people for if all they're doing is progressing along a road in a legal fashion.
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The theory behind that is fine. I have to say though that the Critical Mass I went on was quite bad for cyclists flying over zebra crossings when pedestrians were trying to cross and only served to really piss them off. A few of us stopped to let people over and they were really appreciative and said thanks for being polite. But some people still kept whizzing through :( :mad:

That said I'm not in favour of the ban, but I think the people on Critical Mass do have to police themselves a bit better and make sure that other cyclists do behave.
 
nipsla said:
The theory behind that is fine. I have to say though that the Critical Mass I went on was quite bad for cyclists flying over zebra crossings when pedestrians were trying to cross and only served to really piss them off. A few of us stopped to let people over and they were really appreciative and said thanks for being polite. But some people still kept whizzing through :( :mad:

That said I'm not in favour of the ban, but I think the people on Critical Mass do have to police themselves a bit better and make sure that other cyclists do behave.
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Pretty much my thoughts on the matter.
 
nipsla said:
The theory behind that is fine. I have to say though that the Critical Mass I went on was quite bad for cyclists flying over zebra crossings when pedestrians were trying to cross and only served to really piss them off. A few of us stopped to let people over and they were really appreciative and said thanks for being polite. But some people still kept whizzing through :( :mad:

That said I'm not in favour of the ban, but I think the people on Critical Mass do have to police themselves a bit better and make sure that other cyclists do behave.
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I saw it come through Old Street last week... thought it looked pretty cool.

Noticed loads of police riders... so they don't try to stop people going through crossings then?
 
The police treat the Mass as a single 'vehicle' - so when the first rider goes through a green light, the rest of the mass is allowed to follow - the police actually hold back the other roads of traffic as the lights cycle redgreenredgreen until the mass has passed.
 
Went on my first one tonight, and I have to say, I was... underwhelmed. I'm glad it's there, I'm glad its legal, but I won't be rushing back. Seemed to be a lot of cycling slowly down (mostly) empty streets, which kinda defeats the object to me.
 
Um, empty streets?! The Strand, Trafalgar Sq (twice), Whitehall, laps of Parliament Sq, Victoria St, New Scotland Yard, Picadilly, New Charing Cross Road, Oxford St....crikey, you like it busy then :D Think the rain and cold might have a few off.
 
Paulie Tandoori said:
Um, empty streets?! The Strand, Trafalgar Sq (twice), Whitehall, laps of Parliament Sq, Victoria St, New Scotland Yard, Picadilly, New Charing Cross Road, Oxford St....crikey, you like it busy then :D Think the rain and cold might have a few off.
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Whitehall was empty, Parliament Square was quiet, as was Victoria Street, St James' Park, The Mall, Pall Mall, New Bond Street... after that I bugged out & went home. Guess I do like cycling in traffic - that feeling of being a little minnow swimming amongst sharks. Fuck it, if I had my way there'd be more cars on the road to make it more entertaining & make me feel more sanctimonious. Next time time I'll bring the Hummer;)
 
brixtonvilla said:
Went on my first one tonight, and I have to say, I was... underwhelmed. I'm glad it's there, I'm glad its legal, but I won't be rushing back. Seemed to be a lot of cycling slowly down (mostly) empty streets, which kinda defeats the object to me.
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What?!? :D

Well I thought last night was a fab 'un - brilliant atmosphere (SO glad I bought the mulled wine!), and apart from that little altercation with the wanker in the merc, very postitive and supported by the public.

I got chatting with loads of people this time, there are some lovely people involved. :cool: I don't think I'll be going to the next one (it's on Boxing day!) but am definitely gonna be a regular in 2009.
 
best bits for me, road rage playing when some dude in 4x4 went postal on parliament sq (not sure if that's the wanker in the merc or not, cos there were a few), as well as Smiley Culture's Police Officer playing outside New Scotland Yard ('Police office nah give me producer' :D)

good turn out considering rotten weather, very nice atmosphere altho the mass was a bit uncohesive cos of so much traffic about (don't know what streets brixtonvilla was on tbh ;)) and slightly annoyed at the levels/frequency of not stopping for peds @zebras. but an enjoyable and enervating night i thought.

some blurry pics
 
han said:
there are some lovely people involved. :cool: I don't think I'll be going to the next one (it's on Boxing day!) but am definitely gonna be a regular in 2009.
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At least one more CM ride before xmas.. South London critical mass bike ride is the 1st friday of every month:
Peckham library 6:30pm for a 7pm start
 
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