Critical Mass Illegal! (EDIT: not any more)

[citydreams]

The Metropolitan Police have won a court battle to allow them to ban London's Critical Mass cycle ride.

Two out of three Appeal Court judges overturned a High Court ruling that the rides do not need to have prior permission from the police.

Now police will have the power to make arrests under the Public Order Act 1985 if they are not warned about the route.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6677589.stm

 

[Miss-Shelf]

where's Des Kay when you need him?

 

[zenie]

Bike ride anyone?

 

[Janh]

Bike ride anyone?

I'll see you there Friday

 

[joevsimp]

good luck all those going, i'm hoping to go in june, but definately july if its not stamped on

 

[zenie]

I'll see you there Friday

I can't make it

 

[lighterthief]

That's seriously bad news. Is that the end of the matter, legally speaking?

 

[editor]

That's seriously bad news. Is that the end of the matter, legally speaking?

Bit difficult to ban a load of cyclists who just happen to be in the same place at the same time and all riding in the same direction, I would have thought.



What a total waste of court and police time this will prove to be.

 

[lighterthief]

I don't mean is that the end of Critical Mass - I meant is there a chance the present decision can be appealed to a higher court?

I have no doubt that Critical Mass will continue, and long may it continue to do so, but I don't see why those participating should do so under threat of a getting a criminal record.

 

[Buds and Spawn]

This might just motivate me to fix my bike - been years since I went on Critical Mass

 

[citydreams]

I can't make it

There's a growing trend of cyclists with camera-helmets, so you can watch the ride at your own leisure

I've not been for a couple of months. Think I'll have to make up for the lost time with some extra enthusiasm

 

[Radar]

Fucking stupid.

Have the Met nothing better to do ?

Has there ever been any serious bother at one of their outings ??

 

[citydreams]

The full judgement is here:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2007/477.html
though there's a lot of waffle..

I therefore respectfully part company with Leveson LJ in paragraph 29 of his judgment when he suggests that there is the need for what he describes as "that necessary element of repetition" in the route. I thus cannot agree with his conclusion in paragraph 30, and with great respect to him, although he is at pains to reject the suggestion that he is elevating route into the determinative feature that is, in my judgment, precisely what he is doing.

 

[citydreams]

I don't mean is that the end of Critical Mass - I meant is there a chance the present decision can be appealed to a higher court?
.

The decision wasn't unanimous

s65: I agree that the appeal should be allowed. I would only add this on the question of statutory construction.

 

[citydreams]

where's Des Kay when you need him?

Cyclist to apply to House of Lords over ride wrangle
http://www.wimbledonguardian.co.uk/...apply_to_house_of_lords_over_ride_wrangle.php

 

[detective-boy]

The House of Lords would be the end of the legal road in the UK - their decision would be final.

There would, however, be scope to take a Human Rights argument to Strasbourg (there are several rights which are arguably engaged by the issue).

There is also significant scope, I think, to fiddle about with how the rides are organised (or not, as the case may be ... ) so as to take them outside the scope of this judgment.

There would also seem to be significant political support for the rides and so if the Public Order Act was complied with, and notice of intended routes, etc. given any excessive interference by the police would be likely to get them some political hassle and they would be pressured into facilitating the rides anyway.

 

[editor]

The thing is, the rides work just fine as they are. There's no public order problems. The police have been doing an effective job of keeping order, there's a good relationship between the police and cyclists. But the idea of an "organised" ride detailed in advance would run contrary to the whole spirit of the event.

 

[Crispy]

Well, I'd disagree with there not being any public order problems. As it is, other road users not on the same route as the mass get held up while it passes. For those people, the mass causes significant problems - and that includes public transport and pedestrians. Several times on the ride I've shouted at the people riding to stop and let pedestrians cross - and I've never seen anyone else do this. This 'fuck you' attitude puts me off critical mass a bit. I'm sure it doesn't help the public image of cyclists either.

On average, though, I support critical mass - I think it's important for cyclists to unite and show their strength. Nothing beats the feeling of owning the roads for once. But I have some reservations about the side effects of the way it currently runs.

 

[editor]

Well, I'd disagree with there not being any public order problems. As it is, other road users not on the same route as the mass get held up while it passes.

Come on! Critical Mass is just a temporary inconvenience no worse than a bus breaking down or an everyday traffic jam. It's short lived, fun, almost always peaceful and hardly a 'public order' problem in any sense of the word. You'd get more trouble in the city pubs on a Friday night.

I'd disagree that cyclists never let pedestrians cross too. Sure, some don't, but I've always let them cross and see loads of C Massers doing the same - but obviously they can't stop every time for every single ped else the ride would fall apart in minutes.

 

[fredfelt]

Well, I'd disagree with there not being any public order problems. As it is, other road users not on the same route as the mass get held up while it passes. For those people, the mass causes significant problems - and that includes public transport and pedestrians. Several times on the ride I've shouted at the people riding to stop and let pedestrians cross - and I've never seen anyone else do this. This 'fuck you' attitude puts me off critical mass a bit. I'm sure it doesn't help the public image of cyclists either.

On average, though, I support critical mass - I think it's important for cyclists to unite and show their strength. Nothing beats the feeling of owning the roads for once. But I have some reservations about the side effects of the way it currently runs.

You do have a point. CM as traffic no problem, just cyclists all heading in the same direction. CM delibatlery causing bother is another, for instance if the road has two lanes just one is needed for the ride.

But after this ruling I might just have to head down to London this Friday!

 

[detective-boy]

The thing is, the rides work just fine as they are. There's no public order problems. The police have been doing an effective job of keeping order, there's a good relationship between the police and cyclists. But the idea of an "organised" ride detailed in advance would run contrary to the whole spirit of the event.

I'm not sure the police's concerns are to do with public disorder - more an issue of road safety / obstruction and the potential problems if something does go wrong and someone gets seriously hurt or worse. They have an obligation to conduct a risk assessment of any policed event as, by policing it, they take on a duty of care to both participants and others. In order to do that effectively they need to have some information in advance.

They also have resourcing issues - they need to assign an appropriate number of officers to the event and "appropriate" varies with numbers, locations, etc. They can't justify having loads hanging around on a regular basis if they are not needed and if they have not got enough they would again be criticised if anything did go wrong.

Amongst all the officers I know who have been involved with Critical Mass rides, I have never heard any views that it should not take place, just frustration over the randomness of it and the practical problems that creates.

I agree with you that that is part of it's charm / appeal but I can also see some real issues from the policing side. I hope that an acceptable compromise can be reached because I wouldn't like to see it end.

 

[revol68]

who cares it's always been nothing more than some smug pricks showing off what better gwobal citizens they are than the poor fuckers stuck in the traffic behind them.

 

[editor]

who cares it's always been nothing more than some smug pricks showing off what better gwobal citizens they are than the poor fuckers stuck in the traffic behind them.

Whey are they all:
(a) smug and
(b) pricks, please?

Have you ever been on a Critical Mass, by the way?
If not, what are you basing your highly derogatory personal attacks on? Thanks.

 

[Crispy]

Such criticisms only have any weight if critical mass had pretensions of being a 'political' act or something. All I ever thought it was was a semi-organised way to have a bit of car-free road cycling for a change. A nice way to round the month off.

If it is supposed to be 'political' then I think it needs some thought about wha the aims are and how effective it is.

 

[Dubversion]

who cares it's always been nothing more than some smug pricks showing off what better gwobal citizens they are than the poor fuckers stuck in the traffic behind them.

you're so EDGY

<swoons>

 

[Chairman Meow]

What a load of cock. Have the cops got nothing better to do?

I'd like to do the Paris rollerskating one.

 

[revol68]

Whey are they all:
(a) smug and
(b) pricks, please?

Have you ever been on a Critical Mass, by the way?
If not, what are you basing your opinion on? Thanks.

because the people i know who organised it in belfast saw it as a chance to set an example for more sustainable travelling and show motorists the error of their ways.

again i know the people who were central to organising it in belfast as i volunteered in the youth collective they used and were also involved in, the kind of tossers who whinge on about being anti car and then put out a book about how amazing they are and how they travelled round europe by hitchhiking, overlooking the small matter of hitchiking being dependent on some other smuck driving a car. The same core people threw a hissy fit over people using frozen veggie burgers in the cafe, yes because it doesn't make more sense to freeze them the night before instead of mixing them up when everyone descends on the cafe.

And no I never went on one because I don't see the point in disrupting traffic so you can give yourself a pat on the back about what great eco warrior you are, i tend to have more sympathy for the parent just out of work and trying to get home to her kids.

 

[ska invita]

Perhaps it is not as illegal as first thought - just got this email:

Renewed Kafka-esque legal threat to cyclists

The Appeal Court, on Monday 21 May, overruled last year's High Court
decision
that the monthly Critical Mass bike rides in central London, as a
"customary"
procession, are exempt from Public Order Act requirements for advance
notification to the police. A 2-1 majority in the Appeal Court decided that
precisely because the rides had no fixed, pre-planned route they were not
"customary", and therefore the law _does_ require ... er ... the event's
route to be notified in advance. Hmmm.

Initial press reports that this means the ride itself is illegal are wide of
the mark. Participation in an un-notified procession is not of itself an
offence. The Appeal judges themselves pointed out that to convict anyone,
the police would need to prove that they were an organiser. Which will be
difficult since there aren't any. But police could impose conditions on all
participants "to prevent serious disruption" - although the court pointed
out there wasn't any.

In response, the next ride - on Friday 25 May - looks like being a big 'un.
Meet under the south end of Waterloo Bridge between 6pm and 6.30pm. (One
might point out in a non-organisational manner.)

The police certainly have been trying to hassle and agravate of late - such as booking cyclists for obstruction when they stop at red lights etc.,

 

[Dubversion]

because the people i know who organised it in belfast saw it as a chance to set an example for more sustainable travelling and show motorists the error of their ways.

again i know the people who were central to organising it in belfast as i volunteered in the youth collective they used and were also involved in, the kind of tossers who whinge on about being anti car and then put out a book about how amazing they are and how they travelled round europe by hitchhiking, overlooking the small matter of hitchiking being dependent on some other smuck driving a car. The same core people threw a hissy fit over people using frozen veggie burgers in the cafe, yes because it doesn't make more sense to freeze them the night before instead of mixing them up when everyone descends on the cafe.

And no I never went on one because I don't see the point in disrupting traffic so you can give yourself a pat on the back about what great eco warrior you are, i tend to have more sympathy for the parent just out of work and trying to get home to her kids.

so some problems with the organisers of the Belfast CM means you can therefore judge everyone involved in it everywhere else?

you're SUCH a prick

 

[Wolveryeti]

It would be very interesting to see a lawyer trying to prove how a cyclist was on their own creating a public disorder offence In fact I think I'd be tempted to take a day off work to see it.