Cricket Umpiring Question

Discussion in 'general sports' started by Spymaster, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. Spymaster

    Spymaster Cockney Wanker

    A ball is bowled by a slow bowler with the keeper standing up. Batsman charges and misses the ball but the keeper doesn’t take the ball cleanly and, instead, takes the bails off with his gloves without control of the ball. Batsman stands there, still well short of his ground, while keeper removes a glove, collects the ball in one hand and then removes a stump from the ground with ball in hand... And then appeals for the dismissal...

    Was the ball dead after the stumps were first broken (so batsman not out), was the batsman stumped, or was he run out?
     
  2. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager

    'You Are the Umpire':cool:

    I'm going with run out. Don't think the ball would be dead - the batsmen can still take a quick single if they think it's on. And he's bungled the stumping attempt. So run out I reckon.

    IANAU
     
  3. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Well it's definitely out. Ball isn't dead if the batsman is still out of his ground. I'd say stumping - it doesn't make much difference what you call it, though (bowler might not think like that).

    ETA: Reason I'd say stumping is cos batsman isn't going for a run. Breaking the stumps doesn't automatically mean dead ball at all, so I think that bit is irrelevant (aside from the fact that the keeper has to do what you describe to effect the dismissal). It's not really any different from the keeper swishing at the stumps and missing, then coming back and taking them second time around.
     
    Idaho likes this.
  4. existentialist

    existentialist Danced on by a twerking bee

    Well, clearly it all rests on whether short leg was defibrillated, per Marlborough Rules, and whether the third fielder was left-handed. There are exceptional circumstances whereby if the mid-outfield inner player was facing West, and wearing green socks, then contact with the bails is permissible, providing the keeper's surname begins with the letters R, Q, or V.
     
    Mrs Miggins, Spymaster and mauvais like this.
  5. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    If I recall correctly the keeper can't effect a run out without the ball first being touched by another fielder.
     
  6. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    No, not true. Last ball of a limited overs game is often a run to the keeper resulting in a run-out.
     
  7. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    *paging John Holder* :D
     
  8. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    So you're saying its okay for a wicket keeper (or any fielder for that matter) to just take out the stumps/bails without any ball in hand at anytime. As long as he touches the stumps again with the ball (or ball in hand), that still counts as 'OUT' if the batsman is out of his crease. That can't be true surely.
     
  9. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Once the stumps have been broken, to effect a dismissal, you need to uproot a stump with the ball in the same hand, not just touch it, as spy describes. That bit I'm 100% sure of.
     
  10. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager

    I don't quite follow. Why would you want to? I mean here it's been done while attempting to effect the stumping, but otherwise why would you?

    If someone was just pushing the stumps over for the sake of it then they'd probably get cautioned for some form of misconduct. What would be the point though?
     
  11. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    Something very similar happened to me (I'm the w/k). The batsman is out stumped. To be run out they would need to be attempting a run and the ball is not dead till the umpire deems it to be.
     
    littlebabyjesus likes this.
  12. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    So here a scenario. Batsman misses a ball, ball runs off into the distance, so he runs out of his crease and any fielder can just come along and kick over the stumps and as long as those same stumps are touched again with the ball and he's still out of his crease, that counts as out?

    What? :D
     
  13. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    A batsman can run an overthrow after a direct hit on the stumps (some say that should be changed, but it still hasn't been). In that instance, if there were no way to effect a run-out, the batman just gets a free run, no risk.
     
  14. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    If the bails are off the only way to affect a run out / stumping is to remove a stump with a hand that is holding the ball.
     
  15. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    No. :D You have to actually physically pull a stump out of the ground with ball in hand. It is never in the fielding team's interest to kick the stumps over.
     
  16. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    And what if the stumps have been completely kicked to bits already by a fielder? they can just touch one of them already on the ground with the ball??
     
  17. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager

    They'd need to put at least one back I think.
     
  18. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    All three stumps kicked out of the ground? Maybe a huge bird comes along and takes them off in its talons. Then what?
     
  19. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager

    I suspect if the fielder kicked all three stumps out of the ground the umpire would give the batsman not out on the grounds of 'fuck off you twat.'
     
    littlebabyjesus likes this.
  20. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    No but I'm saying... what happens if in the attempt to run a batsman out with a ball one of the fielders just runs haphazardly into the stumps and knocks them all flying. How then can the batsman be run out if the ball is still in play but there's no wickets in the ground to remove? Do they have to physically put one of them back in the hole, just to knock it over again, when they've got control of the ball? (assuming the batsman is still out of his crease)
     
  21. strung out

    strung out (",)

    Law 39 (Stumped)
    1. Out Stumped
    (a) The striker is out Stumped if
    (i) he is out of his ground
    and (ii) he is receiving a ball which is not a No ball
    and (iii) he is not attempting a run
    and (iv) his wicket is fairly put down by the wicket-keeper without the intervention of another member of the fielding side. Note Law 40.3 (Position of wicket-keeper).


    (b) The striker is out Stumped if all the conditions of (a) above are satisfied, even though a decision of Run out would be justified.


    2. Ball rebounding from wicket-keeper's person
    (a) If the wicket is put down by the ball, it shall be regarded as having been put down by the wicket-keeper if the ball
    (i) rebounds on to the stumps from any part of his person or equipment, other than a protective helmet
    or (ii) has been kicked or thrown on to the stumps by the wicket-keeper.


    (b) If the ball touches a helmet worn by the wicket-keeper, the ball is still in play but the striker shall not be out Stumped. He will, however, be liable to be Run out in these circumstances if there is subsequent contact between the ball and any member of the fielding side. Note, however, 3 below.


    3. Not out Stumped
    (a) If the striker is not out Stumped, he is liable to be out Run out if the conditions of Law 38 (Run out) apply, except as set out in (b) below.


    (b) The striker shall not be out Run out if he is out of his ground, not attempting a run, and his wicket is fairly put down by the wicket-keeper without the intervention of another member of the fielding side, if No ball has been called.
     
  22. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Ta, strung out. So it does matter as you can't be out stumped off a no-ball, but you can be run out. And in this instance, it's stumped.
     
  23. existentialist

    existentialist Danced on by a twerking bee

    Now I know why I never really got into cricket: I'm just too fucking stupid! :D
     
  24. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Also, batman is a dozy pillock. This bit is all too believable.
     
    Ted Striker likes this.
  25. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager

    Batsman is Chris Gayle - he's just too cool for an undignified dive back to the crease.
     
    littlebabyjesus likes this.
  26. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    They should liven cricket up a bit. Maybe introduce a multi ball round, or mystery exploding cricket ball or automatically igniting stumps in flames if someone's been in too long. Batsman gets to stay in for as long as the wood holds out.

    I'd watch that.
     
  27. strung out

    strung out (",)

    Unless this recent amendment applies:

    39.3.1 The striker will not be out Stumped if he/she has left his/her ground in order to avoid injury.
     
  28. Spymaster

    Spymaster Cockney Wanker

    I think we all agree with hat the ball’s not dead so the batsman is out, but doesn’t the stumping opportunity expire with the illegal breaking of the wicket? If that’s the case he must be run out.
     
  29. Spymaster

    Spymaster Cockney Wanker

    But isn’t charging the bowler ‘attempting a run’?
     
  30. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Law 39.1.a.iv

    Only mentions the keeper fairly putting down the wicket, which he has done here. Bails could also be blown off by the wind, for instance, which would also mean he'd have to pull the thing out.
     

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