Cpgb And Bush Agree: Climate Change Unproven!
- Thread starter Udo Erasmus
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
More! More! 
(Thanks for another attempted smear udo - now we're racists, cheers)
(Thanks for another attempted smear udo - now we're racists, cheers)
past caring
The Cathars were right
Udo Erasmus said:
Poor Udo, he just so wants to be liked.....
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
It's true,
If a Muslim who was a member of Respect wrote an article arguing that Climate Change wasn't real, it would be widely quoted on these boards and all kinds of jokes and attacks made.
Yet, the CPGB who seem to always being quoted on these boards to attack Respect, seem to be immune from criticism.
Why can't certain posters bring themselves to say that the CPGB article is discgraceful
If a Muslim who was a member of Respect wrote an article arguing that Climate Change wasn't real, it would be widely quoted on these boards and all kinds of jokes and attacks made.
Yet, the CPGB who seem to always being quoted on these boards to attack Respect, seem to be immune from criticism.
Why can't certain posters bring themselves to say that the CPGB article is discgraceful
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
rednblack said:and it seems udo thinks muslims in respect disagree with the arguments against climate change
I think that you will find that generally, most people of whatever religion, ethnic background or ideology, would disagree with the CPGB on this one.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Udo Erasmus said:
Again, utterly conclusive. Case closed - we are racists.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
butchersapron said:
Once, again, I haven't said anywhere that you are a racist. Will you retract this false accusation?
But go on, Butchers, just say it, just say that the CPGB are fruitcakes for saying that Climate Change isn't real
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Udo Erasmus said:
You know what? It would help if they actually had said that. Where does it say that in the passing comments on the motions put forward at the RESPECT conference? Where exactly and explicitly does say that "Climate Change isn't real"? Because i can't see it.
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/598/respect.htm
And yes, you have called us racist, and not for the first (or probably last time) by saying that we would react differently if a mulism person had made the comments. And you ask me to retract?
past caring
The Cathars were right
Udo Erasmus said:
'Cos it's you that we're dealing with, you fucking sad sack.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
butchersapron said:
Proved correct, Butchers can't actually bare to actually say that the CPGB might be wrong!
Here's what the CPGB say:
"Not only are there a lot of unrecognised scientists and experts amongst the Respect membership who are absolutely sure that the dramatic fluctuations of temperatures encountered in the past are totally different from what is happening today. They are also utterly convinced that climate change never occurs through natural processes and that its effects must always be unpalatable."
The "unrecognised scientists and experts amongst the Respect membership" are those who have looked at what the whole scientific community is saying.
The article is attacking the SWP for agreeing with the scientific consensus that climate change is a genuine problem and is being caused by human activity.
If climate change is due to "natural processes" as the CPGB argue, then it explains why they attack the SWP for advocating measures such as building insulation, investment in public transport and renewable energy.
But the CPGB article is dangerous, because it is trying to persuade people that climate change isn't a genuine problem - when in fact, the biggest catastrophe facing humanity, that needs to be tackled NOW!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Udo Erasmus said:
No, you're wrong - that doesn't say anything of the sort, and it doesn't even mention the SWP. It doesn't deny that climate change is occouring, it actually agrees that it is! Aside from that rather embarrasing misreading on your part all it does is outline the perspective from which the motion comes. Your whole thread is based on a misreading by you.
And it isn't an article - it's brief commentary and description of a motion - 4 very short paragraphs in total.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
butchersapron said:
Now you are lying.
Take this passage:
"The comrades know “that anthropogenetic global warming is an undeniable reality” (motion 13), that there is “overwhelming evidence for the existence and scale of the problem” (motion 9), that it is “one of the biggest threats facing humanity” (motion 16) and that something needs to be done “before future generations curse us” (motion 18).
The tone of the passage, "the comrades know" and the sarcasm, suggest that Tina Becker thinks that it is up for debate whether it is the biggest threat to humanity and that something needs to be done.
And the passage I just quoted earlier criticises Respect members for not recognising that climate change may be a natural phenomena and that it's effects may be quite nice.
These are the same arguments put forward by Bush.
I should note that Matt S. earlier stated that he was writing to the Weekly Worker, suggesting that he read the article in a similar vein to me - as questioning whether climate change was a genuine problem
darren redparty
a very bad man
Thats nice.
Just a 'throw away' remark. seems to me that you throw shit then can't back it up.
why don't you ask your spook pal Shayler about the spies in the swp?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Udo Erasmus said:
A racist and a liar, my i am a naughty little scamp.
So, let's see - you cannot find anything in the brief comments, no actual substantive content to back up your claim, but just the 'tone' of the comments. Now, whilst they may point out that the RESPECT membersare by and large not scientists and probably are unable to follow all the technical data as to why recent changes have taken place in a slightly cynical or scary manner, this, in itself, does not constitute a denial that climate change is/has taken place - indeed, it rests on the fact that it has, in fact, taken place.
It may well be that the CPGB's position is that climate change hasn't taken place, but you've not come close to demonstrating that it is either by posting Beckers comments or in your (mis)reading of them.
Have another try udo. After all, if the position is[ as you claim you should be able to demonstrate this easily enough shouldn't you?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think RW is going to be fuming when he sees this thread - he's got a real challenger here.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
To be honest, Butchers, the article couldn't be interpreted in any other way than I have and I have just shown that another poster on these boards who is a member of the Green Party stated that he had written to the CPGB to express his concern over Tina Becker's article
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I've just interpreted it another way, and far more convincingly than you. And it's still not an article. Here's a few tips, do your research before you start threads - that way you'll have found out that the CPGB does believe that climate change has taken place thereby underming th whole premise of your thread, don't open your posts with smear attempts and don't abuse people who disagree with you as racists and liars, learn to read what things actually say, and..nah, who'm i kidding, it'll never happen...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
And does that same tone suggest:
"But the CPGB (like George Dubya) believe that climate change is unproven and think it is disgusting that the SWP advocates various environmental measures to tackle it - such as house and building insulation, renewable energy, investment in public transport."
Because that's udo's claim. Not that the comments were sarcastic.
Note also udo's inabilty to seperate the SWP from RESPECT despite his many many lines pointing out just that difference. What does that suggest about the how deeply he believed in them...
"But the CPGB (like George Dubya) believe that climate change is unproven and think it is disgusting that the SWP advocates various environmental measures to tackle it - such as house and building insulation, renewable energy, investment in public transport."
Because that's udo's claim. Not that the comments were sarcastic.
Note also udo's inabilty to seperate the SWP from RESPECT despite his many many lines pointing out just that difference. What does that suggest about the how deeply he believed in them...
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
oh for heavens' sake! she's sending you up for being so dull, humourless and anal!Udo Erasmus said:
yet again, trotskyism's weirdest achilles heel; no sense of humour ever found in its' followers
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yep, and i've not once said that they haven't on this thread, depsite Udo's painful spluttering and labelling me as a racist and a liar for doing just that.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
nice to see these gaping fissures in WESPECK ranks though!
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
It is Socialist Resistance rather than the SWP that has actually sponsored a number of the motions to Respect conference on Climate Change. The largest component of SR, the ISG, is part of the Fourth International which passed an important statement on 'Ecology and Socialism' at its world congress in 2003. From the second substantive paragraph, this resolution clearly identifies Climate Change as a crucial phenomenon associated with the growth of capitalism, and worsened by the polices of the US government and the WTO. It also observes that there are
I think we can safely add the CPGB to those 'bourgeois forces'.
http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/article.php3?id_article=178
The CPGB are of course barking mad on this issue and many others, though I would defend their right to be in Respect and say what they think. I doubt that they are a front for the state machine, which in my experience works in much more subtle and intelligent ways.
I think we can safely add the CPGB to those 'bourgeois forces'.
http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/article.php3?id_article=178
The CPGB are of course barking mad on this issue and many others, though I would defend their right to be in Respect and say what they think. I doubt that they are a front for the state machine, which in my experience works in much more subtle and intelligent ways.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Which Fourth International?Fisher_Gate said:
While I am cynical about "Respect! The Unity Coalition (George Galloway)"/SWP's concern for green issues (yet another bandwagon to jump on/demo to take over?)...
"Not only are there a lot of unrecognised scientists and experts amongst the Respect membership who are absolutely sure that the dramatic fluctuations of temperatures encountered in the past are totally different from what is happening today. They are also utterly convinced that climate change never occurs through natural processes and that its effects must always be unpalatable."
...this is an utterly idiotic way of criticising them - or even of taking the piss.
"Not only are there a lot of unrecognised scientists and experts amongst the Respect membership who are absolutely sure that the dramatic fluctuations of temperatures encountered in the past are totally different from what is happening today. They are also utterly convinced that climate change never occurs through natural processes and that its effects must always be unpalatable."
...this is an utterly idiotic way of criticising them - or even of taking the piss.
boxinghefner
Comrade Era
'The Weekly Sectarian' is my preferred title for the rag.
They're barmy but this is hardly news. You need only attend a meeting they've covered to note the huge disparity between actual fact and reported reality. And their position on "legalising all the drugs" is mental too.
They're barmy but this is hardly news. You need only attend a meeting they've covered to note the huge disparity between actual fact and reported reality. And their position on "legalising all the drugs" is mental too.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
you're a self-proclaimed socialist and you needed to ask that?Fullyplumped said:
oh, how are the membership fallen....
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