Court Rules School Can Use Electric Shock as Punishment For Special Needs Students

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by MadeInBedlam, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

  2. Horrific but also, America :(
  3. chilango

    chilango Neither Westminster nor Brussels....

  4. AnnO'Neemus

    AnnO'Neemus Is so vanilla

    Autistic activists have been trying to raise awareness and complain about what goes on at the Judge Rotenberg Center for years.

    I'm aware that electroshock 'therapy' is sometimes used on adults, but they generally consent to their treatment (and I understand it's usually a last resort after other options have been tried).

    If they were doing this in an adult facility to adults who hadn't consented, or perhaps weren't able to give informed consent, there would be an outcry. But because it happens to vulnerable children, that's somehow okay. No. No, it's not.
  5. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

    I remember the JRC coming up in discussions 10-15 years ago in activist groups.

    It’s not a fashionable cause, it’ll take a lot of work to win on.
    AnnO'Neemus likes this.
  6. Lupa

    Lupa It's all about the butter

    How on earth did a judge decide that this is acceptable?

    It is appalling :mad:
    crossthebreeze and MadeInBedlam like this.
  7. Jeff Robinson

    Jeff Robinson Well-Known Member

    Even more disturbingly, how can the parents support it?
  8. dessiato

    dessiato Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono

    There's been a time or two I've thought it might be a good idea...but never ever seriously.
    likesfish likes this.
  9. NoXion

    NoXion Keep an eye out for diamonds

    How is this any different from just hitting them?
  10. Jeff Robinson

    Jeff Robinson Well-Known Member

    Hitting kids and administering shocks are both seriously wrong but I think there are some features about the latter that are particularly disturbing:

    1. Pain severity: According to the UN special rapporteur on torture the application of electricity to the body causes extreme pain and often has long term psychological effects. Whereas hitting children can amount to inhuman treatment, electric shocks can cross the threshold into torture.

    2. Constant threat: as described above the children are made to carry the devises around with them all day. They have the constant threat of electrocution. It must be very scary.

    3. Discrimination: this method of punishment is only used against autistic children. Using methods of punishment that are associated with controlling farm animals (I think it’s wrong in that context too) against an already socially marginalised group are likely to reinforce their subordinate social position.
  11. NoXion

    NoXion Keep an eye out for diamonds

    OK, so it's different in that it's actually worse. Fucking hell.
    mojo pixy and crossthebreeze like this.
  12. Chilli.s

    Chilli.s changed the little words

    Im sure you can train most things with pain, the big difference is that teaching a human isnt the same as training an animal. What other things are these poor people learning apart from the trained response?
    mojo pixy and NoXion like this.
  13. NoXion

    NoXion Keep an eye out for diamonds

    Even with animals, some species can only be trained usefully with positive reinforcement, and not negative. Like cats.
    Chilli.s and crossthebreeze like this.
  14. crossthebreeze

    crossthebreeze Well-Known Member

    Just barbaric and horrific.
    I don't think you pain works for training anything to do anything complex - touch the fire and get burnt, try to climb that fence and get a shock works, but anything more difficult to grasp and you just cause fear, confusion, and further behavioural problems. Positive reinforcement works more effectively with almost all animals.
    This obviously isn't being used only in situations of real risk of harm through the students behaviour, or even in the formalised way that corporal punishment used to be administered in schools.
    Those kids must be in constant terror and confusion, especially if they already have problems understanding social conventions.
    Chilli.s, MadeInBedlam and NoXion like this.
  15. Edie

    Edie Well-Known Member

    Just wtf is wrong with America
    mojo pixy, dessiato and likesfish like this.
  16. AnnO'Neemus

    AnnO'Neemus Is so vanilla

    Because instead of promoting tolerance and acceptance of children and adults on the spectrum, there are charities and institutions and individuals who profit and make money off of promoting fear and shame and intolerance of neurodiversity.

    It's in the interests of some to catastrophise a diagnosis and push the idea of a 'cure' to desperate parents who want to release and rescue the 'locked-in' child they hoped for before birth from the autistic shell they've have to try to come to terms with since they were given their child's diagnosis.

    Some of the propaganda around autism is that it's like a disease that has kidnapped the child, and the parents feel that their 'real' child is inside the autistic child, waiting/wanting to be 'cured'/rescued.
  17. Raheem

    Raheem Well-Known Member

    So you can hit kids as much as you like without it crossing that threshold???
  18. Mrs Miggins

    Mrs Miggins There's been a slight cheese accident

    I am beyond horrified that this is happening. Literally lost for words.
  19. Jeff Robinson

    Jeff Robinson Well-Known Member

    No. But in the vast majority of cases smacking wouldn’t meet the severity required to be legally regarded as torture.
  20. Bryan_l

    Bryan_l New Member

  21. Harry Smiles

    Harry Smiles Well-Known Member

  22. bemused

    bemused Well-Known Member

    I can't imagine how morally vacuous you'd have to become to take a job delivering electrical shocks to disabled children.
    MadeInBedlam likes this.
  23. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad heckling from the back!

    'eckin 'ell - Could only be in 'murica.

    I'ld like it if that judge was hooked up to one of those units for a few days ...
  24. BristolEcho

    BristolEcho Well-Known Member

    Yep. It's also why the autism is caused by Vaccines argument really annoys me. So many people that I have got into debates with around this have an inherently negative view of Autism.

    Thankfully outside of that particular group of people the view generally here is much more positive.

    On the subject itself this is pretty sick. We have a long way to go here in the way we support people with disabilities and mental health needs, but we are miles ahead of some places.
  25. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

    Well in this country we lock up and restrain autistic and learning doasabled people as make them take anti-psychotics (not because they have psychosis, but to ‘manage their behaviour’)
    crossthebreeze likes this.
  26. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

  27. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

  28. BristolEcho

    BristolEcho Well-Known Member

    Yeah true this is still happening. There's definitely over medicating going on too and STOMP have been trying to challenge this. As I said we still have a long way to go.
    crossthebreeze and MadeInBedlam like this.
  29. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

  30. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

    3 labour MPs bothered to turn up to the transforming care debate.

    campanula and Ralph Llama like this.

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