Couple 'exposed to unknown substance' in Wiltshire town of Amesbury...

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by cupid_stunt, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    This, i suspect, had more to do with Russian/Regime chemical attacks on civilians in Syria than Salisbury:

    Dutch expelled Russians over alleged novichok laboratory hacking plot

     
  2. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    As a guess I'd say the government now know exactly who they are but obviously revealing much more could compromise sources.
     
  3. Wilf

    Wilf Meeting few of his KPIs

    And the RT interview with them would have been full of detail about their innocent jobs and lives etc.
     
  4. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    That's what I mean. UK authorities say they did it. They (and Putin) say they didn't. What has been achieved?
     
  5. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    The basis for an international coalition to identify specific Russian targets for potential economic responses and the concomitant isolation of Russia. The poisoning and who did it are mere sideshows now.
     
  6. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

    You mean like:

    Bearing in mind Skripal’s house was in the opposite direction from the railway station to Salisbury Cathedral, and no CCTV footage has shown them near Salisbury Cathedral.

    As if Novichok doesn't randomly turn-up in London hotels all the time.

    And, it's not like the Russians don't have a long history of carrying out these sorts of hits.
     
    moochedit and Jeremiah18.17 like this.
  7. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Has pilger gone quiet too? Oh yes, he has.
     
    Jeremiah18.17 likes this.
  8. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    Has this evidence been made public?

    Because general speaking I'd be dubious about the idea that we should assign guilt simply on the basis of an assertion by the authorities that they have some circumstantial evidence that supports a claim of guilt but they're not prepared to make it public.

    I doubt there will be any attempt to extradite these two, but can you imagine any state agreeing to hand over two of its citizens on that basis? No wonder Putin is able to take the piss.
     
    Dogsauce likes this.
  9. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    It's in all the fucking papers and news stories - how do you think people are talking about it? The pictures of them by skripals house in the other direction from the cathedral etc. Or you mean the lab work on the room they stayed in where traces of the chemical were found and the chain of evidence proving that's where it came from? I think you needed to have read a bit more about what has been released before starting down this path.
     
  10. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

    Since when have the authorities put all their evidence, in detail, to the public, before putting it before a court?

    The evidence has been put before the CPS, the EU, NATO, and the UN, hence European arrest warrants have been issued, this has been widely reported.

    Of course there will be no attempt to extradite them, Russia doesn't give up their own, this has also been widely reported.

    Fucking hell, what planet are you living on?
     
    fakeplasticgirl likes this.
  11. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    OK, I clearly haven't read widely enough on this to get the full picture about what evidence has been presented to various other bodies.

    Apologies for pointless comments...
     
    HoratioCuthbert and cupid_stunt like this.
  12. Jon-of-arc

    Jon-of-arc Fully self-actualised

    Is it their fault the poison didn't work? Does it particularly matter? To Russia, that is. Message sent, pretty clear who it was from.

    Seems pretty clear to me that this whole thing was planned at a high level, with input from a broad range of specialists (at the least 2 hitmen, someone to provide the chemical, someone to design a chemical container that looks like perfume and securely holds the compound, someone to help with the dodgy passports and visa applications, someone to coordinate and authorise all this).

    With this level of planning, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the identification of the agents was almost certainly anticipated. They cannot be blamed for the chemical not working. Russia probably doesn't care about a couple of dead civilians. If the possibility of a less than perfect outcome would essentially mean it had become a suicide mission, who on earth would ever volunteer? Backslaps and treble vodkas all round seems more realistic to me.
     
    Spymaster likes this.
  13. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

    You are assuming they volunteered, I am not convinced that's how these sort of operations tend to be arranged.
     
    CRI likes this.
  14. existentialist

    existentialist Danced on by a twerking bee

    I suspect it's more "volunteering" than volunteering.
     
  15. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

    As in obeying orders.
     
  16. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    Yes and after this roaring success they might find themselves volunteering to help the rebels on the front line in Eastern Ukraine.
     
    cupid_stunt likes this.
  17. Jon-of-arc

    Jon-of-arc Fully self-actualised

    I'm gonna go out on another limb and guess that the GRU has the same problems recruiting willing, able patriotic sorts as MI6 or the CIA do, ie no problems whatsoever.
     
  18. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

  19. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    Years ago, I lived in the same building as Craig and his wife. I even fed their cats once or twice when they were away.

    I never really got to know him that well but we shared some brief chat, and he seemed like a nice enough guy. We never really got to chatting about conspiracies but he was pretty involved with human rights issues from what I recall.
     
  20. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    Litvinenko was killed 12 years ago in London and the UK named the two men they were pretty sure killed him, some of the basis for accusation coming from CCTV evidence.

    One of these men, Andrey Lugovoy, later became a Russian MP, currently deputy of the state Duma (lower house) in fact. I reckon these guys are safe and will be rewarded suitably.
     
    Bahnhof Strasse and Jon-of-arc like this.
  21. Poi E

    Poi E Pessimism: a valuable protection against quackery.

    Good thing the British state can be seized of this and has no other pressing concerns.
     
  22. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    Really? What should have been a straight forward hit which would have barely made the news has turned into a shit show for the Russian government. The interview has just compounded the problem. I feel fairly confident we're unlikely to see the two cloister lovers enter politics any time soon.
     
  23. Duncan2

    Duncan2 Well-Known Member

    the thing about the interview which is a bit surprising is that the two men talk over one another and give every impression of having failed to get their story straight in advance.Guess this is why Murray is urging folks to watch it.If it was them there seems to have been a stunning lack of planning all round.
     
  24. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Eh?
     
  25. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    The loon fightback starts.
     
    fakeplasticgirl likes this.
  26. existentialist

    existentialist Danced on by a twerking bee

    It's not really a shit show for the Russian government, though.

    They have sent a message about dissidents - "we'll get you" - and also shown that they can, apparently without trying particularly hard to be secret about it, operate on foreign territory, even in one of the most surveilled countries in the world.

    And then they've basically made like Muttley, by barely bothering to present a credible alternative argument as to what the people the UK has accused of carrying out the "hit" were doing. In a kind of "hyuk hyuk hyuk, oh, yeah, we were just wandering around taking in the sights *snigger*" way. They don't give a fuck if we think (or know) that they did it.

    This is going to play well domestically, and makes the UK look like the Keystone Kops (at least from a Russian point of view). It's wins all round as far as Putin is concerned.

    A deniable, professional hit whereby Skripal was quietly killed without any collateral damage or the finger of suspicion pointing at Russia would have been next-to-useless to them - the whole point was to send a message that they can do what they want, and don't give a fuck about anyone's opinion on the matter.
     
  27. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    Yeah, the blokes not dead. A fairly simple operation which got fucked up.

    Sure, they're playing to the domestic audience but this has not gone as planned by any means. In an ideal world you don't want your assassins fronting a new travel show. This should be very obvious.
     
    cupid_stunt and Duncan2 like this.
  28. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    They're shit. We're spinning it as they're great.
     
  29. skyscraper101

    skyscraper101 0891 50 50 50

    They’re shit at interviews anyway.

    GRU my arse.
     
  30. not-bono-ever

    not-bono-ever Not what they want but what is good for them

    the death of the target would have been a bonus - this is not an just an assasination - its a show of reach - theses two are patsys
     
    existentialist likes this.

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