Council of ex-Muslims of Britain

[Aldebaran]

The same way you support all other groups you feel an obligation and need to support because they are in your eyes exponent, result or symptom of human misery.

salaam.

 

[scumbalina]

The same way you support all other groups you feel an obligation and need to support because they are in your eyes exponent, result or symptom of human misery.

salaam.

Well, I'm assuming you're perfectly happy in you religious beliefs, but I'm not going to celebrate that, no. I have to say I don't really understand your point at all.

 

[dash_two]

I don't think the group are all that significant, but they could become so, if/when they start receiving death threats from Islamist nutters (not known for their grasp of understatement). We'll see how our government and judiciary respond to that, should be interesting.

 

[Aldebaran]

Well, I'm assuming you're perfectly happy in you religious beliefs, but I'm not going to celebrate that, no. I have to say I don't really understand your point at all.

The point is in your argument that groups can count on your commitment and support because you perceive the members as representation of elements of human misery inflicted on them by others.

If I am all you claim I am, hence live in a misery - which I don't even perceive as such at that - why don't you feel the same empathy for me?

Where is the difference is in being aware of misery and become part of a group sharing the awareness, and being unaware of misery and being part of a group sharing that unawareness?

salaam.

 

[King Biscuit Time]

Theres a world of difference between telling people what to believe, and telling people they can believe whatever they like.

I wouldn't tell you what to believe, but if there are people out there of any faith who have stopped believing and are scared to admit it for fear or reprisals or ostracism then I'll encourage and defend that person to the fucking hilt.

 

[Aldebaran]

if there are people out there of any faith who have stopped believing and are scared to admit it for fear or reprisals or ostracism then I'll encourage and defend that person to the fucking hilt.

Which brings us back to the question: Why is this group so special among all others?
There are groups of people all over the globe scared by something they do or say. In the present as much as in the past. Does it need the touch of religion for you to feel such a need and obligation to support?

salaam.

 

[scumbalina]

The point is in your argument that groups can count on your commitment and support because you perceive the members as representation of elements of human misery inflicted on them by others. .

Yes, and they are campaigning against it, so I support them

If I am all you claim I am, hence live in a misery .

Are you living in a misery? You sound quite happy with your beliefs to me. Just because I think your religion is bullshit and that you believe in fairy tales doesnt mean I assume you're unhappy with that. If you're happy, good for you.


I honestly am still completely lost by your point, and I'm not sure you actualy have one to be honest....

Do you have a problem with the group in question?

 

[Fruitloop]

Can't help but think that Western organisations encouraging or supporting Muslim apostasy is just going to confirm the suspicions of the people in the Muslim world who think that the West is opposed to Islam as a whole.

 

[scumbalina]

Which brings us back to the question: Why is this group so special among all others?

Because it's the group this thread is about???!!! What's your point? No-ones said this group is extra special, it's a new organisation, therefore it's obviously of interest and people will be pleased (or not) to hear of it's existance. If I start a thread about another group that might be of interest to people, would you ask the same question?

 

[King Biscuit Time]

They're not particularly 'special' (and I don't know who's implying that they are), but one thing they've done that few other similar groups have is achieve a reasonable amount of media coverage.

There are plenty of websites out there with testimonies from apostates, but you have to go looking for those. Making a public statement in the media may spur someone who's always thought their religion was a bit naff, but never thought to take positive action, or at least let others know that they've stopped believing.

Also - this group has directly spoken out against 'faith groups' and 'community leaders' which is something I also applaud.

 

[Aldebaran]

Are you living in a misery?

By your definition I must be. Which is the point.
Do you want to change your definition?

Do you have a problem with the group in question?

I don't know anything about it, so I have at this point no other comment to make then that in my view they chose a misleading name and that for some reason people on this board - hence I assume people in real UK life too - feel as if they are something very special.

salaam.

 

[scumbalina]

By your definition I must be. Which is the point.
Do you want to change your definition?

If you can show me where I said religion causes all followers of that religion to live in misery, then yes.

hence I assume people in real UK life too .

Really? I don't think U75 is representative of the UK as a whole

feel as if they are something very special..

A few posts from a couple of different people saying that it sounds pretty cool? I think people think it's more special when someone in nobbin and sobbin gets an ingrown toenail, I wouldn't worry.

 

[Aldebaran]

There are plenty of websites out there with testimonies from apostates, but you have to go looking for those. Making a public statement in the media may spur someone who's always thought their religion was a bit naff, but never thought to take positive action, or at least let others know that they've stopped believing.

To allow any of your decisions to be made by others or at the instigation of others is making any argument by which you underscore the decision completely invalid.
To assume that if you stop believing in God you have an obligation to "make that public" is exposition of sensation-driven elements of your character, and a type of self-esteem that has no other foundation than narcicism.

If tomorrow for some reason I would become convinced God does not exist, why would I put that in the media if not for some dubious personal gain? (whatever that gain may be.)

Also - this group has directly spoken out against 'faith groups' and 'community leaders' which is something I also applaud.

I speak out against many "groups" or individuals I don't agreee with (I don't know which ones you refer to, of course) but I don't see any need to make that into a media circus.

salaam.

 

[revol68]

Can't help but think that Western organisations encouraging or supporting Muslim apostasy is just going to confirm the suspicions of the people in the Muslim world who think that the West is opposed to Islam as a whole.

yeah and maybe we should stop supporting socialists, communists, feminists and such in the muslim world too?

islam can go fuck itself and the appeasement of it by western secularists and some socialists (SWP!!) reeks of patronising racism, where we don't hold brown people up to the same standards as us sophisticated westerners.

 

[TAE]

Surely these aims cover all religions?

Or even all belief-systems / ideologies !

 

[chilango]

I have heard that people who choose to leave the Muslim faith - apostates can (and do) in some places face the death penalty?

Is this true?

AFAIK, no other religion punishes apostates in this way?

If so, then "ex-Muslims" are special, and do need particular support and organisation.

Also, I`m pretty sure there are similar organisations in the US for ex-Christians...if anywone could provide a link to them that would be cool.




Personally, I don't care if people believe or not.

 

[mk12]

CiF article about it

Pretty interesting group. Definately one to keep an eye out for in the future IMO.

Good stuff!

 

[yield]

Thanks, In Bloom. Excellent link.

 

[Jean-Luc]

Also, I`m pretty sure there are similar organisations in the US for ex-Christians...if anywone could provide a link to them that would be cool.

Try http://www.exchristian.net/.

 

[Jean-Luc]

There must be one for ex-Jews too, but I doubt they get up to the antics of some socialist and anarchist ex-Jews of a hundred years ago. W. J. Fishman in his "East End Jewish Radicals 1875-1914" records the following regular event:

But young anti-religious militants were to blame for one annual fracas. It was occasioned by the Anarchist balls, deliberately held (against Rocker's wishes) on Yom Kippur, the most solemn of Jewish festivals, which even marginal Jews respect. J.L. Fine was a regular observer of the tragi-comedy of young politicals who, flaunting their contempt for tradition, marched in column to the Spitalfields Great Synagogue (Machzikei Ha Dath) in Brick Lane, smoking or brandishing ham sandwiches as gestures of defiance and rejection of their creed. The service over, angry worshippers, sometimes in full regalia, swept out and attacked the scoffers with any weapon they could seize, while the local people gazed dumbfounded at the antics of the crazy foreigners.

They wouldn't want to try this today, if only because the synagogue in Brick Lane is now a mosque.

 

[King Biscuit Time]

To assume that if you stop believing in God you have an obligation to "make that public" is exposition of sensation-driven elements of your character, and a type of self-esteem that has no other foundation than narcicism.

So when the pope speaks on behalf of the world's supposed 1bn Catholics, or some tiresome 'community leader' in this country starts spouting rubbish on telly, supposedly speaking on behalf of certain faith groups in the community, you don;t think it's right for people who've decided to abandon their faith to publicly state that they don't believe any more, and that these people don't speak for them.

 

[Darios]

I'm glad to find out about this group. Thank you for posting.

Perhaps this can assist in easing the cognitive dissonance I experience in living in Blairite, Politically-Correct, Serial Monoculture masquerading as 'Multiculture', Promoter of Democracy at home through restricting liberty - in particular liberty of expression, destroyer of liberty and life in at least two middle east nations, multiple personality disorder modern Britain.

 

[JHE]

The National Secular Society's view on the Council of Ex-Muslims: http://www.secularism.org.uk/nsssupportsthelaunchoftheex-musl.html



Another excellent organisation, Apostates of Islam: http://www.apostatesofislam.com/

 

[Prince Rhyus]

You may be interested in this chappie who doesn't like organised religion one bit:

http://www.patcondell.net/

His youtube videos make for interesting viewing.

 

[Jonti]

He doesn't like *any* religions one bit. From

The real phobia lies with Islam itself, and with all religions, with their pathological fear of reason, which they know can evaporate all their delusions in an instant because reason, to religion, is like sunlight to a vampire. That's where the real fear is, and that's where the real hate is.

Sorry to be pedantic, but talk of "organised religion" is often a cover for cult apologists; not meaning to say or imply that that was your intent in any way. I'm just a tad hypervigilant around the issue, is all