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Council housing : you only get the investment if you vote to privatise your estate

William of Walworth

Festographer
R.I.P.
Well, I've been a tenant of the relatively OK** Southwark Council for a long time now, but if there's one issue that REALLY agitates me at the moment, enough even to come into P and P and start a thread about it, enough -- EVEN! MAYBE! -- to get off my arse and start being active again, it's current Government policy on investment in/refurbishment of estates.

**As landlords they're acceptable, anyway

To put it simply : if you're a tenant and want to stay with the Council and you want investment in your estate, tough shit.

Here is a link to a pretty good article in a certain mainstream newspaper today ;) :D by Austin Mitchell --- not bad at all at summing up the basic facts and politics.

Sold for the sake of it : this government's knee-jerk drive to privatise public housing reveals a contempt for choice

(In other words - tenants who choose to stay with the Council rather than have their housing 'devolved' have in effect no choice if they want any hope of getting their estate fixed).

Not sure what AM's general record is since Blair, but on housing at least, I think that article is pretty much spot on (at least as far as it goes).

He sticks a good sideswipe boot into Polly Toynbee's utterly crap article of a few Fridays ago, too -- she was supporting the transfer of housing to Arms Length Management Organisations. She made several crass mistakes of fact as well as wittering offensively about rows of identical monochrome doors on drab estates -- usual cliches. May get back to that aspect later.

I wanted to start a bit of a discussion on this as there must be some Urban 75ers who are lucky enough (like me) to be councilly housed .... or have (informed) views for various reasons -- maybe you're a housing worker?? Or have friends, or oldie relatives, or whoever, in council hosuing??

I have lots to say on all sorts of aspects of this, including several recent successful anti-privatisation campaigns by tenants that Mitchell referred to, that in many places WORKED at fightng off privatisation, for the moment at least. Some of those campaigns the Defend Council Housing organisation** was involved in, others not. There was a fairly recent campaign on a neighbouring estate to mine, the Aylesbury. It was an odd one that. My own (small) estate is for technical reasons counted as 'Fringe Aylesbury' but I didn't have a vote because we were never going to be privatised -- even though if the tenants on the main Aylesbury had voted for an ALMO and the money had been released to invest, we'd have benefitted .... but despite that I was RIGHT BEHIND the 'No' campaign and helped out peripherally .... the vote was massively against.

Result : lots of money available to invest in a huge, crumbling estate. But it won't be released, as punishment for voting against!

**And I couldn't give more than the smallest of trivial shits about whether or not DCH is 'Trot', or whether IWCA, or other people, :confused: waved the biggest willies about it -- I have no idea about the sectarian stuff and don't want to

Anyway, there's your topic, the first thread I've started on this part of the forums for bloody ages.

Views please!!





:confused:
 
Some related (if Southwark-specific) discussion in this thread about the Elephant and Castle redevelopment -- which will affect many tenants on the nearby Heygate Eastate (also not far from me).

See excellent posts by past caring and guinnessdrinker, and my own post no. 37.

<edit to add> : Amazingly, this ancient thread about the Elephant and Castle redevelopment also still exists on the London forum -- some relevant stuff on council hosuing also contained there ....

Both threads now bumped, over on London, and links to this here thread posted in them. To attract civilians ;)
 
The investment you get afterwards is crap anyway... They've bricked up my mams house in leeds but the work is so fucking shoddy they have had to re-do the whole roof and replace 4 windows they had only just put in!

In the old days when even the maintainence people were council I can never remember having trouble over repairs let alone when its all supposed to be new stuff.

FFF
 
Back later, keep em coming!

Could a passing mod correct the embarassingly undeliberate spelling mistake in the title, please??

Writes out 50 times : PRIVATISATION :mad:
 
Hopefully will be the sort of thread P&P needs. Easiest way to subscribe is by posting, hence this useless one.

But I'm interested... nothing contructive to add (nearly wrote 'yet' but realise it's unlikely to be so later - only lived in council housing for 2 years of my life - in Camden - seemed ok, never put in this position).
 
I have both worked in housing and have been a council tenant since 1977. I have witnessed the decline in social housing throughout this period, with both Conservative and Labour governments using tenants and their homes as political footballs. Austin Mitchell aknowledges the Labour Governments contribution:

'Horrifying stories of dirty tricks were given in evidence last week to the Council Housing Group of MPs. The whole process demonstrates contempt for local democracy and the real choices which are supposed to be central to Labour.'

The housing stock where I reside is now in ALMO hands, after the local council made it clear to tenants in their 'glossy brochures', that there would be no money for repairs, or to bring the stock up to their 'target' of a 'minimum european standard', if tenants decided to vote against this proposal.

The tenant participation that took place before the vote was laughable. It was all nicely stage managed and strictly controlled. Although, at one meeting I had one of the housing chiefs (who of course is not a council tenant) rattled at one point, calling for a 'representative' of one of the trade unions to help him out. No one came to his rescue. As far as I could see, there was not one single union rep at the meeting.

Whilst this excuse for democractic participation continues, the Conservatives, in a coalition with the Liberal Democrats and the Green Party, now have control of an uncertain future for both tenants and those waiting desperately for an affordable, decent home.
 
the very same just happened in hackney, they had a "test of opinion" on basically 4 options;

The status quo - with the proviso that this would mean no new investment
pfi - well that sure has worked on the tube and with the nhs
stock transfer
and the promised land of almo

fairly low turnout, and around 70% voted for the almo, imho, a higher turnout would have got a different result, defend council housing were involved in the fight against it, as were hackney independent (off shoot from iwca)

the council wanted almo from the start, the government is promising all sorts of additional funding if councils take the almo route

it's all about decent homes, the government wants all council housing to reach a decent homes standard by 2010 (i think) which basically decent windows and roofs at it's basic level, and more knobs,etc if there is more funding

interestingly camden tenants did vote no to the almo, and the council is basically telling whitehall that they need the extra funding anyway...a standoff at the mo, i'm sure there will be some interesting court cases in the future on the topic of funding . and what the government does (if it's still there in 2010) if camden do not reach the decent homes standard (which it will have to self fund the way things stand at the mo)

a few london authorities have already gone to almo, iirc, Islington, Westminster, Barnet are all now Almos, i don't know if any tenant vote was held (i very much doubt it in the case of westminster)

there was some opposition to the almo from councillors - interestingly it was mainly from the handful of tory councillors (who may have just been scoring points)

i think lethargy has a huge role in the success or failure of an anti-almo campaign, the low turnout in hackney is proof in point, i spoke to many residents at the time (sort of involved ;) ) and the majority of them were against it - leaseholders especially as they were worried about huge service charge hikes to pay for the decent homes works - leaseholders make up a sizeable chunk of local authority residents (don't get me started on right to buy :mad: ) an unholy alliance of tenants and leaseholders might have an impact, one problem with that is a lot of leaseholders don't live in their properties, their sub let as as long as their rent comes in, they probably aren't arsed who manages the estates :(
 
Excellent article by Austin

This is about more than Clapham Park. It is about all tenants who find themselves in the frontline of a war that a Labour government should not be fighting. As house prices escalate, we need more public rented housing, not less.

I'd absolutely love to be able to get in council housing or a housing association but as a single man its pretty impossible. I'm priced out of the London market anyway, but Im not bothered about owning a house, only in having some security :(
 
William of Walworth said:
Cheers flims and MC5

Hope Kaka Tim and other left-sensibilists ;) see this thread ....

More tomorrow or soon ...

Sorry William but you're 15 years behind. This battle has been fought and they won.

How did a whole decade pass you by?

:(
 
Plenty still to learn from other posters like marty though (I missed your excellent post just before, for some reason)

Looking forward to this one. But it's late now ...
 
William of Walworth said:
Do expand .....


I know more about this than you think ....

There's not a lot to expand on now. That's my point.

The battle for council housing was fought a decade ago and it was lost. Housing officers are just carrying out the privatisation of social housing now.
 
(W of W posting)

The current details are worth discussing now** though, surely?

W of W

(**well later, but you know what I mean ... :p )
 
sacx said:
There's not a lot to expand on now. That's my point.

The battle for council housing was fought a decade ago and it was lost. Housing officers are just carrying out the privatisation of social housing now.

it's not the housing officers who carry out the privatisation, it's the council that decides, housing officers don't have much of a choice
 
marty21 said:
it's not the housing officers who carry out the privatisation, it's the council that decides, housing officers don't have much of a choice

Everyone has choices. If they're still taking the cash and privatising what's left of the social housing stock then they get no sympathy from me.
 
sacx said:
Everyone has choices. If they're still taking the cash and privatising what's left of the social housing stock then they get no sympathy from me.

they can't just give up their jobs? is that what you want?
 
marty21 said:
it's not the housing officers who carry out the privatisation, it's the council that decides, housing officers don't have much of a choice


Yes --- this is true !

My Council has just done a "Housing Stock Options Review" & 94% of tenants voted for the Council to retain both ownership & management of the Council`s Housing stock.

However, this is, no doubt, due to a political committment, dating back 10 years, to a policy of investment in public housing.

I`m off tomorrow to collect an award for work on homelessness :o

& ANYONE who says that such feats are not possible LACKS THE POLITICAL WILL to do anything about it IMHO ! (Actually, my opinion ain`t so humble) ;)
 
sacx said:
Everyone has choices. If they're still taking the cash and privatising what's left of the social housing stock then they get no sympathy from me.

i'd echo marty21's comments - individual housing officers have no effect over policy. only collective action can make a difference - both amongst tenants, and amongst h.a. & council housing workers.

under my h.a. the same problems recur all the time, but the way the complaints procedure works means every tenant has to go through the hoops every time things fuck up, no matter how many other tenants the same thing affects. there's a tame tenant's forum, but naturally it's paid for and under the aegis of the h.a. - and starting tenant's organisations across the whole h.a. from scratch would be a mammoth task. and then - what about tenants of other h.a.'s? and council tenants?

it's a perfect situation for the privatisers - an atomised, low income 'customer base'.

h.a. and council tenants need to share information, experience and the struggle to preserve social housing, because whoever our landlord is, we face the same problems: poorer services, rent rises and the breaking up of our communities.
 
I think sacx might be confusing Housing Officers and Council Officers. The latter, unelected, paid (highly) and supposedly acting only in advisory role do have an inordinate amount of power/influence when it comes to policy decisions.
 
Belushi said:
I'd absolutely love to be able to get in council housing or a housing association but as a single man its pretty impossible. I'm priced out of the London market anyway, but Im not bothered about owning a house, only in having some security :(

in my experience, it's about game-playing, sadly.

as a single man, i managed to get a housing association flat by playing the points game - but if you don't know how to, you're fucked. in bristol there is the stock there, empties all over the shop, but they're being left to rot until they can be sold on to private landlords, so more shoddily built new jerusalem estates can be knocked up on the periphery of the city. meanwhile the inner centre stock is quietly disappearing into the private sector with nary a peep, because after all, it's all about 'development', 'improvements', 'raising the standards', 'encouraging growth', 'generating an exciting urban environment' and all the other weasel words for gentrification :mad:
 
Not completely relevant, but a related story about what can happen when the privatisations begin.


Tenant dies after house turned into a building site
A SEVENTY-year-old man died weeks after workmen turned his Sheffield council house into a "building site" and left him in "freezing conditions", his grieving family claim.

Pensioner Bill Kirk died of pneumonia four weeks after a private contractor employed by Sheffield Homes was brought in to modernise his council house.
Now his daughter has called on Sheffield Council to review the way its properties are modernised following the death of her father.
Daughter Julie Metham, aged 47, claims Bill, who only had one lung, was left in "freezing conditions" on a "building site".

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=971624
 
treelover said:
'Hope Kaka Tim and other left-sensibilists see this thread ...'

er, new one on me, that one

Good post just before, mr treelover ...

'Left sensibilists' -- just made it up :D but it meant something to me ;)

There are a few insensibilists around after all ;)

Fozzie -- will read that link soon ...
 
I think anybody (from Ms Toynbee up to the panjandrums of the Civil Service) who hold up Clapham Park as an exemplar of the social good ALMOs and the like can do tend to forget that Clapham Park is pretty much a special case. It had none of the late 1980s and early 1990s modernisation (new windows, central heating etc) that other estates in the area received (possibly due to C.P. being the "sink estate" for that part of Lambeth for most of the last two decades of the 20th century). It had severe problems with properties being squatted by dealers and users, and many of the blocks displayed the worst excesses of 1940s and 50s "Utopian" modern municipal housing design (flat roofs, flush guttering, metal window frames etc) leading to environmental problems.
Clapham Park needed something radical to happen. Now, with "decant, demolish, rebuild" that's happening. Because the system has worked for one estate doesn't mean that EVERY estate has to go down the ALMO route.
 
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