Could community canteens help beat the capitalist system

[zenie]

You're talking out your arse and we all know it!

you could have just said 'apologies' but instead you carried on.

I bet your Mum's proud she raised such an arrogant tosser - how TP put up with you I never know.

Oh I forgot abuser and abusee right...

 

[citydreams]

it doesn't cahnge the fact that billions is spent every month on advertising aimed at alienating your from yourself

Say what? Advertisers are aiming at a person's desires, their dreams and aspirations. Your pseudo-marxist dribble about it being some sort of conspiracy to alienate the individual from the collective is codswallop. I want to be the best I can be because that's the kind of person I am. My character/nature isn't altered by capitalism, only my political will.

Awaits a coherent debate with interest... that is, if you're able to do so without being condescending.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Say what? Advertisers are aiming at a person's desires, their dreams and aspirations. Your pseudo-marxist dribble about it being some sort of conspiracy to alienate the individual from the collective is codswallop. I want to be the best I can be because that's the kind of person I am. My character/nature isn't altered by capitalism, only my political will.

right ...

you're not at all influence by advetising...

really....

straw poll

the real thing. what's the product?

just do it. what's the product?

the best a man can get. what's the product?

Im loving it. what's the product?

3 stripes. what's the product?

........


guarentteed that each one of those brought a product and brand into your head. instantly.

come off it if advertising didn't work and didn't influnece you and everyone else why would they spend the money.

Brand placement and advertising works on every single person on the planet. It turns things into commodities and then prasies commodity fetishism from lablled brands to ways of living.

It cocerces, cons, tricks, lies and manipulates each and every person.

If you claim that this has no influence on you at all then i'm sorry to say that the last vestiges of credibility have left you...

Awaits a coherent debate with interest... that is, if you're able to do so without being condescending.

that all depends dear can you make a point with out resorting to DB levels of tantrums twisting and lying about the other persons actual words selective misquoting and the general pomposicty of you know best... some how i doubt it... love...

 

[citydreams]

right ...

you're not at all influence by advetising...

Of course I'm influenced by advertising. Where did I say I wasn't? However, I'm influenced only as far as I want to be. If you think you're being alienated by a "best the man can get" jingle I really do worry for you.

Brand placement and advertising works on every single person on the planet. It turns things into commodities and then prasies commodity fetishism from lablled brands to ways of living.

Er yes, that's called marketing. Unfair on children, but as adults we're supposed to be able to know the difference between right and wrong. Oh wait, I think I'm on to something..

 

[Firky]

You're a thick twat, lets see you squirm out of this one. Not that I can be arsed to read your reply

ED's are certainly more common than they were say a 100 years ago for reasons you pointed out but they're certainly weren't a side effecgt of capitalism

This depreciation of the body was not confined to male recluses, but seems to have been adopted by wealthy Roman ladies. For example, St. Jerome became the spiritual leader of a group of high born Roman women, one of whom actually starved herself to death in 383 A.D., thereby becoming the first recorded death from anorexia and also forcing St. Jerome to flee for his life to Bethlehem (Ranke-Heinemann, l900.)

http://www.cyberpsych.org/pdg/pdghist.htm

 

[citydreams]

You and your bloody facts! That's the last we'll see of Garf on this thread

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Of course I'm influenced by advertising. Where did I say I wasn't? However, I'm influenced only as far as I want to be. If you think you're being alienated by a "best the man can get" jingle I really do worry for you.

My character/nature isn't altered by capitalism, only my political will.

erm here you said clearly that your character isn't altered by capitalism and yet you have already conceeded that you are influenced by capitalism... which is it you are or you aren't iinfluenced by capitalism now?

do try a consistant line here it'll hold sway of the remainder of your POV such as it is... the best you can be

Er yes, that's called marketing. Unfair on children, but as adults we're supposed to be able to know the difference between right and wrong. Oh wait, I think I'm on to something..

right so....

no one ever buys products on the basis of advertsing aimed at adults you heard it heard first on urban hippyrims says so adults not influnece by advertisng billion dollar industry falls on it's knees as marketing campagin mangers leap out of multi story buildings...

could you try just for once living in something approximating the real world...

why are there advertisements if adults aren't influenced by them. why would there be papers like the daily mail or the sun or hell any of them if there wasn't some chime of concordance in the mentality of of the populace... and that that entails....

are you even vaugely connected to reality, maybe your veganism has affected your ability to percive the world around you, prolly a lack of vitimin b 5 i'd venture...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You're a thick twat, lets see you squirm out of this one. Not that I can be arsed to read your reply

ED's are certainly more common than they were say a 100 years ago for reasons you pointed out but they're certainly weren't a side effecgt of capitalism



http://www.cyberpsych.org/pdg/pdghist.htm

source please as in sourcre for where i have said that ED's were a sole product of capitalism?

moreover could you maybe explain to me what type of system it might actually be if there are rich people in it? that wouldn't be a capitalist system would it? oh fuck me yes it is...

thick twat... but seemingly clever than the man who doesn't recognise an ealier form of capitalist culture...

care to try again, maybe you could also try making comments about how you fuck tp as well into the bargin to really add credence to anything you type on here... you sad, silly, little fantasist... come on you have been having the pointless and pathectic pops for over 3 months now care to actually come out and say something which might engauge me...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You and your bloody facts! That's the last we'll see of Garf on this thread

awr did i dissapoint you...

perhaps you might look closer at who you are laying down with, in this instance, hell im ost instances you get into bed with precisely the people who are going to show your argument up to be the utter stupidity it really is.... so i'll have some sources from you too please...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You're talking out your arse and we all know it!

cealry you are once again out of your dept in the discussion dear....

you could have just said 'apologies' but instead you carried on.

apologies fro you taking offence at something which i hold as an opinion, no fuck you, why should ia pologise to anyone for my opinions love? do you apologise for being so unmigtigatingly thick permenantly? no of course not why should you???

I bet your Mum's proud she raised such an arrogant tosser - how TP put up with you I never know.

You assume many things... poor you ...

Oh I forgot abuser and abusee right...

now this you'd better have proof for as in real cast iron proof....

so let's see it...

It's one thing that the flacid young halsted tries continuioously to lie about me beating up teeps and being violent towards her or would then tell a consdierable number of people that he's fucked her, that's he maladjusted and demented commentary on life... but when his delusional state si repeated verbatum by you or anyone then they better be fucking ready with their evidence. so post it up please....

 

[editor]

*steps cautiously in

Could people please cut out the off-topic personal stuff.

*shuffles out quickly

 

[citydreams]

awr did i dissapoint you.....

No, I'm ever the optimist

source please as in sourcre for where i have said that ED's were a sole product of capitalism?

Noone is accusing you of attributing EDs to be "the sole product of capitalism". What you did say though was that it's "it's the envitable consicuence of capitalism" and suggested that people with eating disorders should attribute their illness to "the fact that billions is spent every month on advertising aimed at alienating your from yourself ". Do you see what you're doing here? You're telling Zenie (Zenie, forgive me if I'm jumping to conclusions) that you know her mind better than she does. Pretty offensive, no?

My character/nature isn't altered by capitalism, only my political will.

erm here you said clearly that your character isn't altered by capitalism and yet you have already conceeded that you are influenced by capitalism... which is it you are or you aren't iinfluenced by capitalism now?

Ah, I see. In your view, being influenced is synonymous with having your character altered. Ok, the difference here is that I can chose when to be influenced by the media. I'm not dictated to by it as you seem to be. Not all influence is negative. As I suggested in my last post - I'm old enough to make my own choices. Consumer sovereignty is very much alive in this anti-capitalist.

I hope that puts your mind at rest.

Perhaps now we could return to your OP? Trying not to offend anyone else, can you please justify, elaborate or care to explain what you were going on about in this post...
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6687085&postcount=67

Are you suggesting that standing outside McDonald's handing out vegan burgers is
"disenfranchising the majority with hardline militant viewpoints with limited scientific basis and a whole lot of voodoo nonsense..."?

 

[TAE]

I was wondering whether canteens, which operated on a voluntary basis, paid for by donations could be the only way to destroy capitalism.

The thinking behind this is that it would enable people to avoid slave wagery and reduce reliance on state benefits, it would also allow better communication, economies of scale and save a load of time.

3 meals a day, 7 days a week for solidarity and sanity

We could call it "open source".


In all seriousness, I do like the idea.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

No, I'm ever the optimist

good i'm glad.. no really



Noone is accusing you of attributing EDs to be "the sole product of capitalism". What you did say though was that it's "it's the envitable consicuence of capitalism" and suggested that people with eating disorders should attribute their illness to "the fact that billions is spent every month on advertising aimed at alienating your from yourself ". Do you see what you're doing here? You're telling Zenie (Zenie, forgive me if I'm jumping to conclusions) that you know her mind better than she does. Pretty offensive, no?[/QUOTE]

no i haven't i was talking about a whole raft of things and using your assumption, zeine has then personalised it to her specific circumstances and attempted to make it a pointed comment directed at her, it wasn't it isn't, her points not actually engauging what was said.

and sadly, to make me sound oh so conceited, if a tad uncaring, The underlying cause of all modern faddy dietry issues is fundamentally capitalism.

Look if on a thread a few weeks ago we can all agree that the underlying cause of obesity is capitalism then the flipside must also be true.

moreover, Zenie and anyone else (sorry to keep using you as an example) wasn't alive in roman times and hasn't be culturally influenced by them. She and many others are cultrally influncec by a massive campagin of alineation, they are told as we all are and are all influneced (it's not singling one person or a group of people out it happens to us all) that you have to conform, to cowtow, to measure up too the predictiated standards else no one will shag you.

This si the same line which has in effect been used to control populations for centries and with good reason it get's you on somelevel to consdier you mortalitiy and if your genes you name you family line cease with you then you have failed. that's the underlying message behind all advertising. and what's the ad mans best axim? sex sells.

So you see to say i know her mind better than her is to place rather to much personaliseation on the matter this incidious indoctrination happens to all who come into contact with the western world, be it zenie you me russia iraq or whatever. It's how it is. there's no condesention in that, it's not like i or anyone else (inc you) sit in an abstract bubble and obsever from the outside, we are immersed in it everyday. couplled to the fact that most times you (by you i mean ll of us) have a number of other issues which are clashing for your time and energy investment and so on, so we plumb for the path of least resistance on most things which includes being told repeatdly that this or that is the definition of beauty, joy, happieness. in what is in essence the vaccum of dead spirtuality humanity still seraches for the answers and hacing answers being force fed to you means that sooner or later you are going to absorb those answers. a good example would be chirs langham, not actually done for pedophillia but for having illegal porn but in most circles he's now regarded as a pedophile, why because people are influenced and change their charcters by what they have been told and they trust or cannot be bothered or are to busy to find out for themselves...

so in a society which is obessed with physical perfection you are influneced by that desire, that's why they don't have realistic models adverts or indeed anything. and what's at the root of this? capitalism drives those desires it exerts influence on people every day, be it their choice of food or drink or they feelings of inadqucey.

Ah, I see. In your view, being influenced is synonymous with having your character altered. Ok, the difference here is that I can chose when to be influenced by the media. I'm not dictated to by it as you seem to be. Not all influence is negative. As I suggested in my last post - I'm old enough to make my own choices. Consumer sovereignty is very much alive in this anti-capitalist.

I hope that puts your mind at rest.

not really i don't think that it's an honest assement of your own circumstances or the reality of life. you say you don't have your charchter altered by being able to name all the brands in the straplines quoted. yet can you not see how indelably scoring those very brands into your mind is altering you charchter as such as if you were to be branded by cattle iron.

you claim to be able to make your own choices really? and what great resource do you have which others don't to be able to avoid buying what is put out there for consumption? why do you choose to drink x cola rather than y cola (assuming you drink cola) smoke x brand of cigs rather than y brand? you only have the choices of the products which are presented to you, and the choice to buy those products or not. that isn't choice that's picking flavours, the core products on sale to you are still governed by others, ie not your choice. and consumer empowerment doesn't come from being able to pick chocolate over vanilla.

Perhaps now we could return to your OP? Trying not to offend anyone else, can you please justify, elaborate or care to explain what you were going on about in this post...
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6687085&postcount=67

Are you suggesting that standing outside McDonald's handing out vegan burgers is
"disenfranchising the majority with hardline militant viewpoints with limited scientific basis and a whole lot of voodoo nonsense..."?

is it the case that consumers have never considered the alternatives or in general have no access to information regarding say mcdonals foodstuff?

do they go in there despite the wall to wall coverage of a high fat high sodium low nutrition diet will definatly kill them?

do they like being told what to think or how to consume by others, do you?

so would they be disenfranchised by someone telling them that they know their own mind better than they do? to use your own words. can you not draw the paralle between how you view what i have said to zenie as me know her mind better than her and telling people have a veggie burger??

and sadly there is no basis that vegan or vegitarian diets or any other form of diets are actually better for you v's a balanced diet. everything else bar a balanced diet is either personal choice or prefference.

both annorexia and bulima are extreme dietry choices but no more extreme than deciding that you wish to limit your in take of food to say things your body cannot digest, such as only plants or plants and diary (depending on your extremism). human being's were designed to eat a range of food stuffs and whilst i accept that this doesn't include gourging yourself on meat and two veg every night all limitations we place on that are of our own makings saving of course famine, which is usually OUR making (meaning all of us).

 

[citydreams]

this incidious indoctrination happens to all who come into contact with the western world
<.....>
so in a society which is obessed with physical perfection you are influneced by that desire

Not all of society is obsessed with physical perfection.

You're making sweeping generalisations about the whole population based on a minority of people and on a short time frame.

Sure, I don't doubt that capitalism gives greed, hatred, division &c a chance to flourish. But to suppose that total alienation is inevitable as a result presupposes that mankind is ultimately feeble-minded.

you say you don't have your charchter altered by being able to name all the brands in the straplines quoted. yet can you not see how indelably scoring those very brands into your mind is altering you charchter as such as if you were to be branded by cattle iron.

Notice you say "as if you were branded". I didn't know all the straplines. I do know that I am quite capable of making my own mind up without having to be spoon fed by big brother. Aren't you?

you claim to be able to make your own choices really? the core products on sale to you are still governed by others, ie not your choice

er, quite. hence my original response to this thread.

can you not draw the paralle between how you view what i have said to zenie as me know her mind better than her and telling people have a veggie burger??

where did i suggest "telling people to have a veggie burger"??

and sadly there is no basis that vegan or vegitarian diets or any other form of diets are actually better for you v's a balanced diet. everything else bar a balanced diet is either personal choice or prefference.

you mean apart from the fact that the meat industry is polluting the environment, unsustainable, spreads viruses...

 

[zenie]

both annorexia and bulima are extreme dietry choices

No...they're mental disorders!

Try and BS you're way through the lies you spout on here, people know the score

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

No...they're mental disorders!

right which cause what love...

Try and BS you're way through the lies you spout on here, people know the score

I very much doubt they do, particualrlly not if that score is being set by your bessie mate hal the delusional fantaist...

are you a bit hard of reading love i think you need to go back and read the editors comments about off topic personal abuse again and let it sink in... perhaps record some kind of tape which you can listen to on your walk man in between the breath in breath out and remember to eat tracks you could have a cease makeing off topic personal attacks on people i actually know fuck all about and that way don't end up looking like a usless lacky of a gerodie fuck up...

i'll admit it's titles isn't ellocquent but don't you ever tire of being the call response monkey standing behind going yurrrrr hur hur...

be off with you your continued personal attacks are derailing the debate...

 

[zenie]

blah blah blah boring....

You're the biggest hypocrite around garf and you know it.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Not all of society is obsessed with physical perfection.

You're making sweeping generalisations about the whole population based on a minority of people and on a short time frame.

but sufficent numbers are enough in fact to pay into that systemt o indoctrinate children whilst they ares till vunerable enough and install those bogey men into their heads for life. the fact that you are a few others slip through the net here and there is immaterial you are atypical of your generation not the norm.

Sure, I don't doubt that capitalism gives greed, hatred, division &c a chance to flourish. But to suppose that total alienation is inevitable as a result presupposes that mankind is ultimately feeble-minded.

no it recognises the actual aims of capitalism taken to it's nth degree. In order to fight any system you need to understand it's underlying nature. what youa re suggesting is almost to inferr it's taboo to discuss that the ultimate form of capitalism can in the wrong hands lead to gas chambers and genocides... people alientated suffently to dehumanise anyone they have been told is no longer appropreate...

Man kind as a group is feeble minded. you've been in crowds before now do they all act as rational reasonable people if it kicks off or as one unthinking animal mass.... you might be able to resist the urge to kick of many others can't again you are judging people by your own standards.

more over i haven't for a second said that total alineation is inevitable i have said it's the aim, the intent, the design of capitalism. do you deny this or are you merely playing semantics?

Notice you say "as if you were branded". I didn't know all the straplines. I do know that I am quite capable of making my own mind up without having to be spoon fed by big brother. Aren't you?

yes it's called a branding iron; the use was intentional it directly reffers to both the branding of cattle and the use of idenifable marks to brand products...

good are the adverts largley aimed at you? are you the target demographic the majority of adverts are aimed at? be honest...

where did i suggest "telling people to have a veggie burger"??

it's not a case of this having to be overt or implict. standing outside a mcdonals harrasing people attempting to prevent them exercising their will is 'telling' them.

and it is harassment to stand out side a building and be in the face of people getting on for better or worse with their lot....

explain what makes you so pious that you can stand outside and say change your mind. where's your compelling argument not for what you are promoting, by what you are actually doing as in the action you are taking. you think the world gives a shit about you or your actions? you thin it's even got the time to sit down and discuss it with you when going into mcdonals? you think people even generally want to be of face confrontation of any kind walking into or attempting to get into a buger bar...

you mean apart from the fact that the meat industry is polluting the environment, unsustainable, spreads viruses...

so name one thing that a human does that doesn't in some way pollute the planet, why you seek to remove humanity from the enviroment and shield the enviroment away from humanity shows the emptyness of your thinking...

 

[jonH]

You're the biggest hypocrite around garf and you know it.

are you cooking today or just stirring?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

hurr...hurr... yerrrrrhhh...

well done...

nice revert to type...

what's the pay for a lackie these days, do you charge by the hour?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

are you cooking today or just stirring?

it's never cooking trust ... she is never, ever cooking...

 

[citydreams]

so name one thing that a human does that doesn't in some way pollute the planet, why you seek to remove humanity from the enviroment and shield the enviroment away from humanity shows the emptyness of your thinking...

wtf? You've accused me of telling people what to do by standing in a public place. Now you're telling me I'm trying to remove humanity from the environment? You obviously come from a completely different planet from me.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

wtf? You've accused me of telling people what to do by standing in a public place. Now you're telling me I'm trying to remove humanity from the environment? You obviously come from a completely different planet from me.

don't be dishonest you are not just standing there you are clearly attempting to influence people who are going into mcdonals by promoting you viewpoint of veganism. why else would you be outside the mcdonals and not the library?

as for removing humanity from the envrioment. yes that's prescisely what you are doing...

anyways that thing humans do which has no impact on the envrioment if you please....