fractionMan
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another quality thread on urban75 
Corporate Stockholm Syndrome
- Thread starter poster342002
- Start date
dennisr
the acceptable face
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Just read the link: Excellent analysis. I'm glad my work place isn't like that.
I think the poster that described some work place cultures as organisational mental illness is right on the button.
The sort of thing described in the link goes beyond your normal worker/management struggle because neither side are capable of acting rationally any more.
I think Key Board Jockey's instincts on another thread about socialising are probably correct. People need to be taken out of that environment and talked to where they can have their own feelings validated.
With group-think taken hold people are probably suffering but telling themselves that they are weak for feeling that way. They need a good drink outside of the office to come back to reality
Very good post, that, expecially the bit I've bolded. A lot of workplaces have descended into a wierd, cult-like insanity imo.
I disagree completely. Unionism is simply employees getting together to defend themselves as a group, as opposed to individually. You don't need to know about the history of the labour movement or the left to do this. In fact, I think it would be better to start afresh.
gorski
customised free radical
Just read the link: Excellent analysis. I'm glad my work place isn't like that.
I think the poster that described some work place cultures as organisational mental illness is right on the button.
Those are private dictatorships... ergo...
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
while I'd agree that there is no need to learn every dot and comma of our history, the notion of 'starting afresh' isn't an inspiring one either. We have learnt many lessons in the lifetime of the TU movement, and it would be daft to just forget them and have to go through the same things all over again.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Those are private dictatorships... ergo...
Yes, many workplaces now resemble scaled-down stalinist regimes - replete with personality cults around the senior-management, workers informing on each other, "dissapearances", purges of disidents and crude pro-management propagagander all the time.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
More than that - I'm not talking about having historical meetings on the dots and crosses of lefty history - I'm talking about having contemporary meetings on things that are happening right now - perhaps on the Egyptian strike movement, upcoming films, art, books, telly-programs, etcetera...
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
It's certainly true that culture can be a good way to bring people together, and can inspire many people, but I'm always a little wary of over-stressing such things, as I wouldn't want to exclude those who (for example) find Ken Loach tedious or art too, well, arty-farty. It can be a good tactic as one amongst many tho, iyswim.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I have never, in my working career, worked anywhere like that
no, me neither. And I have worked in some shitty places, where people have accepted (reluctantly, and pissed-offedly, never ever happily as some imply) pay cuts as an alternative to job cuts. Such things may happen in smaller workplaces, the ones where TU organisation is very weak and very hard, but, thankfully, most people don't work in such places.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
Ken Loach is often not the easiest thing to watch... Personally I find surrealism much more effectively puts across the message and forces people to challenge their perceptions of the world than neo-realism. I also think it's more entertaining for lots of people...
Culture attracts people from a humanistic and idealistic side, rather than simple workplace power structures. Though the latter are obviously very important in terms of recruiting good Trade Unionists, we need people who are gonna take those ideas out of the immediate context of the office if we're serious about building a serious Trade Union movement. As it's not really possible (nor would it be wise) to call a meeting in your office/workplace/wherever discussing whether or not to chuck out the boss and start running things yourselves, that issue needs to be tackled in a seperate arena.
Culture attracts people from a humanistic and idealistic side, rather than simple workplace power structures. Though the latter are obviously very important in terms of recruiting good Trade Unionists, we need people who are gonna take those ideas out of the immediate context of the office if we're serious about building a serious Trade Union movement. As it's not really possible (nor would it be wise) to call a meeting in your office/workplace/wherever discussing whether or not to chuck out the boss and start running things yourselves, that issue needs to be tackled in a seperate arena.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
As usual we get the lefties rushing to deny that employers are really as bad as they are.
Why do you think that is? do you think I'm lying when I say I've never had a workplace as bad as the one you describe below or do you think I'm in denial?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
oh do fuck off. Many of us on here will have a far better idea than you about what employers are really like, cos we have to go and deal with them, whilst you just sit in your office whinging and despising your co-workers.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Balls. I've had to nurse a partner through a nervous breakdown brought on by a shit employer. I know exactly what they're capable of and the length people who should know better will go to pretend they can't see what's happening.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Yup, we've probably all known shite employers, and I've represented people who have similarly been pushed to a breakdown. We all know full well that there are plenty of shit, bullying, managers around. But that doesn't mean your fictions of workers cheering on their own pay cuts, or bringing their first born in to be sacrificed are actually true, or especially widespread. If you want to be taken seriously, there is no need for your ludicrous exaggeration's, there is plent y enough shit behaviour going on without the need to do so.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
You may not (or choose not) to believe it - but the reality is there is NO solidarity in the vast majority of workplaces. In it's place is bitchiness, machievelliean scheming that wouldn't be out of place in a medieval king's court, backstabbing, sycophantic endorsement of whatever the senior management "politburo" decrees - nomatter how patently unjust or absurd - and all the things descibed as Corporate Stockholm Syndrome. When someone's being victimised most people will look the other way and not want to know. "I just want a quiet life" goes the excuse.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I think you have a very limited understanding of 'solidarity'. In most places people aren't going to walk out on strike in defence of a colleague, but that doesn't mean they will shit on just anyone. Even in the call centre (the place I worked which was most similar to what you describe) whilst most teams would have one bosscock sucking turd on it, the rest of the teams would all agree the boss was a twat, and would try and ignore them as much as possible. Getting any kind of 'collective action' going was nigh on impossible (maybe if I'd stayed there longer...) but there was much 'solidarity' in the form of buying someone a pint after they were balled out (or whatever).
I don't deny what you say happens, just that it doesn't happen in the 'vast majority of workplaces.' A claim for which you cannot provide any evidence of whatseover, just ill thought out 'experience'
I don't deny what you say happens, just that it doesn't happen in the 'vast majority of workplaces.' A claim for which you cannot provide any evidence of whatseover, just ill thought out 'experience'
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
That website is a load of rubbish, and so badly written/spelt that it is a real struggle to battle through it to the end.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
All I can say is you've had a totally different set of first and second-hand experiences to me and those I know. Don't know what sort of "evidence" you'd like me to provide - I'm certainly NOT going to post up personal details, employers etc, for obvious reasons.
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
I was thinking that, as I was reading the first page of this thread! They are like a double act these days.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Why? It's facing up to reality far more than a load of vacuous "brillient! massive! solid" self-delusional crap ever could.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Well, maybe people just treat you differently cos they think you're a cunt. Who knows.
I do know that various 'examples' of activity you gave earlier are simply untrue, and that you made them up, so I am highly suspicious of anything else you have to say>
dennisr
the acceptable face
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
It's always the victims' fault, eh?
Really? You "know" this do you? What evidence do you have to back that up? Don't bother answering that one.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
just offering a possible explanation, ooh, you're always so hostile
Really? You "know" this do you? What evidence do you have to back that up? Don't bother answering that one.[/QUOTE]
the bits in bold are blatantly made up.failure342002 said:
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Nope. I've heard people defend job-cuts with the "it's good - it'll get rid of the deadwood" crap. I heard one plank defend a pay-freeze on the basis that it "was good for the environment" as it would stop people consuming as much.
I could go on and on about all the staggering, uninformed shit I've heard spouted over the years.
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