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Controlled parking zones in Lambeth

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by Brixton Hatter, Dec 7, 2009.

  1. Brixton Hatter

    Brixton Hatter Home is south London mate

    Do you live in a controlled parking zone and, if so, what's it like?

    Is it easy to get a space/permit for visitors? Do you think it's a better arrangement now, than before the controls were put in place? Can I expect the traffic wardens to be militant in their enforcement of the zone?

    Lambeth council are 'considering' one for the area where I live - SW9/SE5 borders around Myatts Fields Park - the so called 'Camberwell M Zone' (it sounds like a secret military area where they keep UFOs or something :D) and they are doing a 'consultation' with residents at the moment - we have questionnaires to fill out. I don't own a car and neither do any of the people I live with. If visitors or my family come to visit they can always park on the road outside my house. If I hire a car on occasion, I can also always park on the road outside. I don't see there being a problem - certainly not in the roads around my house anyway.

    Someone local has mounted a campaign to get the zone introduced - probably the Calais St residents association. Personally I think it's a bit fckuing selfish to try to get the zone introduced and expect all the local car-owning residents to buy a permit (up to £200 a year) just so a few wealthy people can park their two BMWs outside their front gate. And from what I've read on here before, it looks like quite a pain in the arse to sort out a visitor's permit. There is supposedly a bit of a problem with commuter parking though, and I've got no problem with stopping people parking in my street who should be using public transport to get to work.

    What do you reckon?
     
  2. fjydj

    fjydj is specified

    if you're not affected by commuter parking for a nearby station, residents parking is one big money raising scam that makes life miserable. You can't have friends visit unless you fork out £3 for a visitor permit or family or work vans pop over.

    Every year you have to go to the "customer service centre" show them about 4 bits of id and documents; waste time traveling there and queue for an age and get stung nearly £200. Which obviously is punitive not the actual admin cost of issuing a sticker, and you can't organise it over the internet.

    And then make one mistake over the badly signed bays and your car is stolen and it'll cost £300 to get it back. The wardens are a bunch of scum and will ticket and tow cars only minutes after the zones come into force.

    If the scheme really was for residents only each zone would be on different one hour block to its neighbouring one eg 8-10, 9-11, 10-12 etc so all day train station parkers can't stop there but your friends and family can still visit. Residents permits would be issued at cost and no vehicles would be towed unless they were genuinely causing an actual obstruction in which case they should just be moved to a nearby space, the parking "fines" should be enouigh penalty
     
  3. se5

    se5 Well-Known Member

    I live in this area too and on the whole am in favour of the introduction of the controlled parking zone - I own a car so will face paying the £150-200 or whatever but I think the advantages it will bring far outweigh the cost. I am actually not affected currently as I go for weeks on end not using my car and only useit at weekends when parking is not an issue.

    I am in favour of the controlled parking zone because it will make the whole area a better more pleasant place to live. And pragmatically I am in favour because all the surrounding areas have controlled parking zones so all the traffic comes and parks here.

    Space in London is finite so has to be rationed in some way and to me it is right that car drivers pay for their 'right' to use the streets for parking and to pay compensation for their pollution of public areas.

    Currently the area has one of the lowest rates of car ownership in the whole coiuntry. The figure for Lambeth as a whole is something like 48% car ownership - in the area being consdered for the M parking zone the figure is likely to be much less as it is not a very rich area (move away from the streets surrounding Myatts Fields and you will find lots of council housing). And yet if you look at the figures there is a high incidence of lung diseases/ asthma etc as people suffer from the effects of vehicle pollution.

    The excess of car parking in the area also slows up the public transport - the P5 bus has a very hard job getting around the area due to the parked cars.

    The area is blighted by an excess of cars during the week - just look at the number of cars parked on the streets during working days compared to the number in the evenings or at weekends. Outside the working day there are less than half the number of cars on the roads of the proposed M zone.

    So where do these cars come from? Well especially at the Camberwell end lots are owned by people who park and go to work in Camberwell. If you look on the map the whole area is surrounded by controlled parking zones so people come and park for free in the proposed M area rather than pay for parking in the other areas in Southwark. Why should we have to have their cars parked on our roads all day? There is also a lot of traffic from Kings College Hospital from people escaping the parking charges in the area surrounding the hospital. Why should we be providing a free car park?

    Another issue is people commuting in to central London from outer London and Kent. The area of the M zone is about as far in as you can get and park for free. In the morning on my walk to the tube at Oval I see many people parking up for the day and then getting the tube/ bus in to the centre of London. Why should we have to provide a free carpark for these commuters?


    I appreciate that some people believe that everyone should have the 'right' to do what they want but why should car drivers solely have this right'? I would love to put a bike strorage facility or cycle parking on the road outside my house but you can bet that if I tried I would be stopped even though a shed takes up less space than a car - why are motorists privileged?
     
  4. se5

    se5 Well-Known Member

    My advice based on living in another area of Lambeth with a cpz is to buy visitor parking permits and renew resident parking permits by post rather than in person - much less stressful!

    And yes it is raising money - money that would otherwise have to be raised by increases in council tax etc
     
  5. ajdown

    ajdown Posting in this thread

    The council tried to introduce a CPZ in our area at the top of the hill and we gave them a resounding 'fuck off' even though we are plagued by commuter parking.

    Why are we so badly affected? Because less and less of the area is left as free parking due to so many CPZ's it's squeezing an increasing problem into a smaller and smaller area making the problem worse as they find 'solutions' to it elsewhere in the borough.

    CPZ is not the solution. It's a rip-off and only harms the residents, because the commuters will only find somewhere else further out to park and move the problem somewhere else where perhaps residents might be better off and more willing to fork out £200 on top of the already excessive costs of motoring to park their car (which they pay tax to use) outside their house (which they pay tax on) on the road where they live (which they pay tax to use) - which then moves the problem somewhere else again.

    Lots of people seem to think 'CPZ' is the solution - but it's not, and nobody wants to consider the source of the problem.

    Perhaps if station parking further out wasn't so damn expensive, people would drive to their nearest station and get the train in to work.
     
    Metroman likes this.
  6. Ms Ordinary

    Ms Ordinary randompointlesschemistry

    It is pain in the butt to sort out a 'visitor's permit' so you can move house :mad: as of course at that stage you don't have council tax bills, proof of address etc. Plus possibly only a few days notice to sort it out.

    Apparently there is also something called a 'day waiver' which costs about £5(?) that you can apply for - I have no idea how this works as I didn't know they existed until I was told by the parking geezer that that's what I should have done :rolleyes:.

    There's a metered zone at the other end of the street that I think visitors could use & just buy a ticket on the day (not much use for deliveries or moving in though).

    I would love to have bike storage at street level :) carrying 2 bikes down 3 flights of stairs means I don't do it as often as we should.
     
  7. memespring

    memespring Well-Known Member

    Too many cars? ;)
     
  8. ajdown

    ajdown Posting in this thread

    No, just not enough places to put 'em.
     
  9. hendo

    hendo Fish finger sandwiches

    The idea of sending important documents to Lambeth Council on the basis that they'll return them when they've finished is ridiculous.

    To the original poster, get ready for a regime of harrassment, unfair fines and to be used as a cash cow in yet another way.

    And finally, an admission from SE5 that the massive increase in permit costs are nothing to do with environmental costs and everything to do with balancing the books at the Town Hall.
     
  10. ajdown

    ajdown Posting in this thread

    I assume they realise that even a CPZ doesn't guarantee you any parking outside your house, or in your street for that matter, unless you have private marked spaces at extra cost on top of all the permit costs?
     
  11. spanglechick

    spanglechick High Empress of Dressing Up

    i've lived in a CPZ and out of one, and I'd much prefer to have one introduced.
     
  12. tarannau

    tarannau Mongolian eyed

    AJ Down's bizarre laws pertaining to traffic:

    1) It's cyclists rather than cars that are the major cause of congestion, with their bobbing and weaving mullarkey
    2) It's not the number of cars that cause problems with parking, its about the number of spaces (notwithstanding the fact that it's a highly built up area, constrained by existing properties)
    3)If a local business is generating visitors that require parking (see Iroko) suggest that it be closed down and replaced by apartments to relieve the pressure. Even if this does lead to another, say thirteen, properties all potentially requiring parking spaces too.

    You've got to give him credit though - it's a position of consistent idiocy and self delusion.

    FWIW I can't say living in a CPZ has made the world of difference to me. At least parking's an option now should I choose to drive - spaces tend to come up regularly, rather than being solidly occupied between 8 and 6 every working day. I've never had a huge problem getting permits if I'm honest - by using the Lambeth rule (nothing get busy until around 10am at the earliest) I've been quite lucky with waiting times.
     
  13. ChrisSouth

    ChrisSouth Well-Known Member

    Definitely support.

    I lived in an area where one was introduced last year. Prior to this we were squeezed by drivers from Kings, Denmark Hill rail station and Loughborough Junction station. This wasn't just about being able to park outside your own house. It was to do with the quality of the environment. Before this we were subject to cars arriving at 6 in the morning and fighting (sometimes literally) over the few gaps by the kerb. Not safe for pedestrians and local kids. Has improved the area greatly. So it's not just about the right to park outside your own house. But quality of life on the streets where we live. I was sceptical when it was introduced. Now support fully.
     
  14. Private Storm

    Private Storm Smell The Glove

    I live in one and generally think it's positive. However, having to arrange visitor permits or permits for visiting workmen is a hassle. It's worth noting that workmen can get their own permits so long as they have a letter confirming the work they are doing on your property. Takes the job out of your hands.

    However, there is a downside. The wardens are pure evil. OK, maybe an exaggeration, but they will try to issue tickets and have your vehicle removed at the slightest provocation. Once our permit fell off the windscreen onto the dashboard and they issued a ticket and removed the car "because they couldn't see it". Another time, a visitor came to the house, came in while I found a permit for them, and in the intervening 3 minutes or so, the wardens had raced up the street and were writing out a ticket. They'd followed him down the street, the sneaky bastards.

    On the whole though, it's positive, we always have parking and there is none of the early morning fighting mentioned earlier in the thread.
     
  15. se5

    se5 Well-Known Member

    I dont speak from any position of authority on this question - its just that we in the proposed area have had anti-cpz leaflets around saying that it is purely a tax as if that is a bad thing and I have to agree yes it is a tax but its a tax we pay for the right to own a car in London where there is more than adequate public transport available.

    I hope the council will give us some justification for the charge - they should be able to point to environmental or other improvements that the charge will bring or how much is saved on the council tax (but I fear that they wont)

    And as for sending lambeth documents when I lived in the CPZ area I was initially concerned knowing the council's ability to lose things but if you are renewing you only need to send in photocopies. And in my limited experience the Kennington Towers parking place is preferable every time to the town hall and to avoid stress avoid going at weekends or first thing in the morning!
     
  16. se5

    se5 Well-Known Member

  17. tarannau

    tarannau Mongolian eyed

    To put that in context, it's nigh on £150 a month for a garage on our estate alone.
     
  18. ajdown

    ajdown Posting in this thread

    You're missing the point entirely.

    It's just another, unnecessary, unjustified cost on top of the already excessive costs ot what is a basic right - car ownership.
     
  19. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    I'd like to see people have to pay to leave their lumps of metal on public land, everywhere. Certainly in London where there's no need to own a car, anyway.

    So, yes, I would support it as a small step in the right direction.
     
  20. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    "right"
    :confused:
     
  21. tarannau

    tarannau Mongolian eyed

    How the fuck is car ownership a 'basic right' in a city as busy and congested as London? There simply isn't enough space for everyone to own cars, nor the need.

    You're growing increasingly crackers and spouting more bollocks with every post AJ.
     
  22. ajdown

    ajdown Posting in this thread

    People seem to assume that smoking, taking drugs and drinking alcohol are a "basic right" but they're far worse as far as I'm concerned than owning a car.
     
  23. tarannau

    tarannau Mongolian eyed

    What a gibbering idiot you really are. Nobody's suggested that those are 'basic rights' here, either on this thread or beyond.

    That irrelevancy aside, how do you square the idea of the 'right' of car ownership in London and the fact there patently are't enough parking space or roads to accommodate them. It's principled idiocy and a denial of reality at best.
     
  24. ajdown

    ajdown Posting in this thread

    I never understand why it's always "punish the car owners" when the only alternative, public transport, is neither cheap, reliable, convenient or comfortable - even when travelling alone, let alone as a family, or with a load of shopping, or lengths of timber from B&Q, or 10 bags of compost from the garden centre, etc etc etc.
     
  25. prunus

    prunus Gone

    I'm in the same area, and fully agree with all of the above. Streets look nicer too, with fewer cars on them. And the loss of the commuter traffic prowling endlessly round the streets of a morning hunting for a space makes it much nicer.

    Now if only they'd extend it to Sunday to catch the massed influx of churchgoers.
     
  26. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    In some other UK cities this might just about hold up, but in London?

    What a lot of nonsense.
     
  27. tarannau

    tarannau Mongolian eyed

    Again, you're talking bollocks and not answering the question AJ - how do you square the 'right; of people to own cars and the limited space available, with the certain knowledge that more cars lead to a deleterious effect on the local environment.

    Somewhere compromises have to made, even self centred simpletons like yourself can accept that

    There's no reason why you couldn't hire a care or take a taxi for special hourneys like that btw - most people don't need 10 bags of compost or timber all that often.
     
  28. prunus

    prunus Gone

    Where I am the CPZ was introduced not to 'punish' the (local) car owners, but to stop incomers (commuters) driving in, parking all day while going to work from Loughborough Junction etc. And it's worked a treat. Frankly the £5/week or whatever it costs is a bargain to be able to park on my street, usually within 10 yards of my actual house, whereas before the CPZ the nearest space was often literally 1/4 mile away.
     
  29. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Places like B&Q can always deliver to your home anyway - although last time I needed some stuff I did it with a taxi because it was actually cheaper.
     
  30. prunus

    prunus Gone

    For some (most?) people in London a car might not be necessary* but for me (and therefore other people in my position) it really is - I have two small children that have to be in different places at different times, many times a day at weekends, plus I need to transport my music (and other members of my groups) equipment to gigs and rehearsals and so on, in London and other parts of the country, on a regular basis, and I transport bags of compost and manure and other equipment to my allotment at least once a fortnight. Doing all this would be impossible (time and carrying capacity constraints) by public transport and prohibitively expensive by taxi.

    I don't resent paying for it though.



    * 'Necessary' here means enables things that would otherwise be impossible, rather than essential for life.
     

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