Congestion Charge Go Live

[editor]

Alternatively, use something like a rumble strip that is iritating at 20 and damaging at 35 rather than stuffing up the streets with obstructions that wreck suspension (an Edinburgh driver has managed to sue the Local Authority for damage - floodgates opened) and cause vehicles to come to a virtual halt and then acceletare again, increasing fuel usage.

But it's the drivers' fault that speed bumps exist.

Do you think pedestrians, residents and non polluting cyclists want speed bumps in the first place?

My solution is better. Make a strictly enforced 20mph speed limit for all cars in built up residential zones. No bumps needed!

 

[cybertect]

Speed bumps I would say account for the increase in chelsea tractors, ie; What speed bump?

In contrast, I can barely clear most speed bumps comfortably at 15 mph with the rather firm suspension on my Scirocco. Often I have to cross them closer to 10 mph.

I think it takes some other drivers by surprise when I slow down so much.

 

[kyser_soze]

an Edinburgh driver has managed to sue the Local Authority for damage

Probably using the same legal argument that has been used to sue McDs by people drinking hot coffee and not having a BIG notice saying 'This Is Hot Coffee'...should be thrown out on appeal because you can only damage your undertray/suspension on a speed bump if you hit it at speed or are grossly overloaded and try taking them too quickly (i.e as the driver you should have adjusted your speed to take account of the extra load)

But then sometimes we all forget that you're a cars first fanatic who seems to take the Clarkson view that driving somehow comes under the purview of Civil Rights...

 

[jusali]

But it's the drivers' fault that speed bumps exist.

Do you think pedestrians, residents and non polluting cyclists want speed bumps in the first place?

My solution is better. Make a strictly enforced 20mph speed limit for all cars in built up residential zones. No bumps needed!

It really surprises me how few speed cameras are used to enforce residential speed limits. They're all on fast A roads and dual carriageways thus frustrating motorists and adding to the revenue collection theories. Surely residential streets are the most in need of slower speeds?

 

[Gixxer1000]

Say goodbye Ken/ TfL you wont be missed when we vote you out. Thats one democratic process you wont be able to sweep under the carpet unlike your CC consultations.

 

[Gixxer1000]

repeat post

 

[Errol's son]

But it's the drivers' fault that speed bumps exist.

Do you think pedestrians, residents and non polluting cyclists want speed bumps in the first place?

My solution is better. Make a strictly enforced 20mph speed limit for all cars in built up residential zones. No bumps needed!

But why are London and the UK the speed bump capitals of Europe, if not the world?

I can't think of any city or country with more speed bumps than us. And many of these cities and countries have safer roads than us.

I am far more in favour of chicanes etc (ie, not having such a distinction between the pavement and road). They do this in Amsterdam and it works very well.

 

[Errol's son]

It really surprises me how few speed cameras are used to enforce residential speed limits. They're all on fast A roads and dual carriageways thus frustrating motorists and adding to the revenue collection theories. Surely residential streets are the most in need of slower speeds?

Well that is why they have built so many speed bumps. But now the police can't go down those streets unless it is an emergency in case they hurt their backs going over the speed bumps...

 

[Cobbles]

Probably using the same legal argument that has been used to sue McDs by people drinking hot coffee and not having a BIG notice saying 'This Is Hot Coffee'...should be thrown out on appeal because you can only damage your undertray/suspension on a speed bump if you hit it at speed or are grossly overloaded and try taking them too quickly (i.e as the driver you should have adjusted your speed to take account of the extra load)

But then sometimes we all forget that you're a cars first fanatic who seems to take the Clarkson view that driving somehow comes under the purview of Civil Rights...

If the posted speed limit on the road is 30MPH and the Council's only signage (if they've bothered - they don't at all locations), is "Caution Speed Bumps", then what's the correct speed to cross it at? If the Council wishes to render the roads unsafe and don't properly notify road users of the hazards, then they're negligent and deserve to be sued.

But then sometimes we all forget that you're a cars first fanatic who seems to take the Clarkson view that driving somehow comes under the purview of Civil Rights...

Is there any "Civil Right" to be allowed to use any form of locomotion other than walking?

 

[editor]

If the posted speed limit on the road is 30MPH and the Council's only signage (if they've bothered - they don't at all locations), is "Caution Speed Bumps", then what's the correct speed to cross it at?

If a driver can't work out how to safely traverse a speed bump on a residential street (i.e. slowly and carefully) then they shouldn't be on the road.

And if they're reckless enough to trash their own car, tough.

 

[maximilian ping]

1. petrol 'crisis'

2. 4x4s all over the shop

3. car-related letter bombs

4. 1.5m sign petition against road pricing

5. road deaths

6. drivers are c*ntz

 

[cybertect]

you can only damage your undertray/suspension on a speed bump if you hit it at speed or are grossly overloaded and try taking them too quickly (i.e as the driver you should have adjusted your speed to take account of the extra load)

Not necessarily true. Depending on a combination of the design of the hump and the vehicle, damage can occur at speeds well below the applicable speed limit, especially if you're passing over them regularly.

Implementation of humps can vary wildly. There's an example of a raised junction in Merton that I used to encounter on my cycle route to work which had a 5cm vertical concrete step at its edge, right across the road. On a touring bike, the only option was to stop and mount it like a pavement kerb. I doubt it was doing cars that passed over it any favours, whatever speed they were doing.

Browsing through the 2004 London Assembly Report, London's got the hump (263KB PDF) there are mentions of representations about damage to vehicles from the Fire, Police, and Ambulance services, together with bus operators. I remember a story a few years back where the LAS had to send all 2,000 of its ambulances back for repairs and modifications that was ascribed to damage by speed humps.

The TfL response is that "damage should not happen to vehicles driving over speed humps if they travel at an appropriate speed i.e less than 20mph".

However, while observing the proper behaviour of matching one's speed appropriately for the conditions, the Highway Code makes no mention of TfL's recommended speed in its notes on traffic calming and speed humps.

Since many speed humps are located on roads with 30 mph limits, and I can think of quite a few examples where these are relatively major routes, drivers may have reasonable expectations that they ought to be able to pass over them safely at 30 (as Ed pointed out earlier, the humps are there to reinforce existing speed limits, presumably).

If 20 mph is the recommended speed for negotiating humps, I do believe that message ought to be communicated to the public a bit better.

Lastly, the design of some humps can be such that, with some cars, it's actually more comfortable to pass over them at over 20mph. It's all a bit of a lottery.

With some decent design and appropriate siting, speed humps are OK. The biggest problems I have with them is that they often fall below those standards.

 

[Gixxer1000]

cars slow down to safer speeds for residential areas (20mph max) would be a good start.

No sane person could argue against this.
However there should be an acceptance that cars ARE necessary to make many journeys in London, partly because public transport is still piss poor, there arent viable alternatives for many people.
Ken/Tfl's deliberate policy of making motorists life hell to make public transport seem more attractive is back firing, after all speeding up passenger car flow will also help ease the cluster fuck of buses.

 

[Crispy]

But there have been very definite improvements in public transport since the charge started. Buses that used to be packed and every 20 minutes, are now every 10 minutes and you have a chance of getting on them. The unified route planning/timetable/map information at bus stops is absolutely fantastic.

And as a cyclist, I find the lower traffic levels and increased bus/lanes make cycling in London bearable (still not pleasureable as in some other european cities, but not bad)

 

[Isambard]

Sure cars may be nescesary or at least the best to make some kinds of journeys. But it is wrong to say Ken is making motorists life hell to make public transport seem attractive. He is implementing transport policies that are the envy of the rest of the country and further afield.

 

[aurora green]

I warmly welcome the extension of the congestion charge, and look forward to the day when it will be extended further south of the river.

 

[Gixxer1000]

But it is wrong to say Ken is making motorists life hell to make public transport seem attractive. He is implementing transport policies that are the envy of the rest of the country and further afield.

Not if he's messing with the phasing. The rest of the country is only jealous of his revenue generating scheme there are no other advantages after all.

 

[Crispy]

When the C-charge came in, there was an immediate and noticeable improvement in the quality of my commute by bus or by bike.

 

[Gixxer1000]

When the C-charge came in, there was an immediate and noticeable improvement in the quality of my commute by bus or by bike.

And now?

 

[Isambard]

Not if he's messing with the phasing.

For the love of Christ! If it is longer red you you, it is is either longer green for someone else where there is a greater flow of trafiic or it is longer red for all motorists, which means it is greaner longer for pedestrians!

The rest of the country is only jealous of his revenue generating scheme there are no other advantages after all.

Lowest fares in the country that have fallen in absolute and real terms.
Massive upgrades to local rail services.
Massive increase in bus frequencies.

Other cities would give their right arms for these kind of policies.

Public transport is a dream in London and dare I say it, find it sometimes better than even some continental European cities I could mention.

 

[cybertect]

or it is longer red for all motorists, which means it is greaner longer for pedestrians!

You've just put your finger on the state which would cause traffic to flow less freely.

 

[Crispy]

And now?

I moved house, I can't directly compare. Public transport is still really good. Especially when compared to the rest of the UK. If you live inside zone 3-4 (ish) and use a car as your main mode of transport you either
a) Need a car for your job (eg. a plumber)
b) Have a disability that prevents you using public transport
or
c) Are a selfish nobber who'd rather take up loads of road space, fill the air with shit and make it difficult for everyone else than take public transport, ride a bike or walk.

 

[Gixxer1000]

For the love of Christ! If it is longer red you you, it is is either longer green for someone else where there is a greater flow of trafiic or it is longer red for all motorists, which means it is greaner longer for pedestrians!.

What you will actually find happening is the reverse of what you suggested (funny that)disproportionate longer green for minor roads.

Lowest fares in the country that have fallen in absolute and real terms.
Massive upgrades to local rail services.
Massive increase in bus frequencies.

Other cities would give their right arms for these kind of policies.

Go on back that up (rather than make it up).

 

[Gixxer1000]

I moved house, I can't directly compare. Public transport is still really good. Especially when compared to the rest of the UK. If you live inside zone 3-4 (ish) and use a car as your main mode of transport you either
a) Need a car for your job (eg. a plumber)
b) Have a disability that prevents you using public transport
or
c) Are a selfish nobber who'd rather take up loads of road space, fill the air with shit and make it difficult for everyone else than take public transport, ride a bike or walk.

Or work anti social hours, Nurse etc
Or have more than 1 kid below the age of 5
Or have a job that dosent fall conveniently on transport nodes
Or......

 

[Isambard]

Go on back that up (rather than make it up).

WHERE in the UK can you ride flat fare on a bus for £1?
Cheapest single fare I Somerset around £1.60 for four or five stops into town.

London Bus day Pass £ 3.50 ?, South West England £6

Night buses Bristol, Friday or Saturday only, hourly.
Night buses London have gone to many routes several times a hour on a daily basis.

New rail projects: North London Line, West London Line, South London Line, continued DLR expansion, Tramlink.

 

[Gixxer1000]

WHERE in the UK can you ride flat fare on a bus for £1?
Cheapest single fare I Somerset around £1.60 for four or five stops into town.

London Bus day Pass £ 3.50 ?, South West England £6

Night buses Bristol, Friday or Saturday only, hourly.
Night buses London have gone to many routes several times a hour on a daily basis.

New rail projects: North London Line, West London Line, South London Line, continued DLR expansion, Tramlink.

Thats right took the bus 1/4 mile yesterday and it cost me £1.
Mile per mile London is more expensive than any other city/ rural area etc.
Lies damn lies and statistics eh?

What goods a night bus during the day?

 

[Crispy]

Have you got a bus in, say, Bristol? Now that's an expensive bus ticket.

And getting the bus 1/4 of a mile? That's a 15 minute walk. That's a 4 minute bike ride. You want to waste your money on a bus that distance, go ahead.

 

[cybertect]

If a driver can't work out how to safely traverse a speed bump on a residential street (i.e. slowly and carefully) then they shouldn't be on the road.

Tricky thing with this is that it diverts your attention from elsewhere. Lining up your wheels so you can traverse a speed pillow correctly means you're not looking at the sides of the road or ahead at oncoming hazards.

They're a heck of a lot easier to negotiate on a bicycle or if you have a broad-wheelbase vehicle like a 4x4.

[ looks back to threads where 'inattention' and 'looked but did not see' are noted as major contributory factors in accidents... ]

One of the issues I have over siting of speed bumps is that quite often they're put in on narrow roads that have cars parked both sides all day, at least in my neck of the woods. Quite simply, that isn't the kind of street where anyone does anything much over 20 mph in the first place and the traffic calming measures seem quite redundant.

In the meantime, just up the way from me, local residents have been campaigning for three years to have speed bumps and other traffic calming measures removed from their road. It's a fairly major route and the noise of vehicles, especially lorries and buses, clunking over them is driving everyone crazy, together with the associated visual clutter proving highly unpopular.

 

[Gixxer1000]

Have you got a bus in, say, Bristol? Now that's an expensive bus ticket..

Yeah usually traveling greater distances though, what do you think the average length of bus journey in London is? (dont expect the man from TfL will divulge that)

And getting the bus 1/4 of a mile? That's a 15 minute walk. That's a 4 minute bike ride. You want to waste your money on a bus that distance, go ahead.

Dont like walking in the rain, ditto with cycling plus - 2mins either side to lock up, 10 mins for a shower, no thanks

 

[tarannau]

One of the issues I have over siting of speed bumps is that quite often they're put in on narrow roads that have cars parked both sides all day, at least in my neck of the woods. Quite simply, that isn't the kind of street where anyone does anything much over 20 mph in the first place and the traffic calming measures seem quite redundant.

You don't live in Lambeth do you? Even with cars parked on both sides, folks still whistle down residential roads near the centre at horrifying speeds. Speed bumps are one of the few measures which seem to slow them down a little.