Compression

[RubyToogood]

It's called a hurdy-gurdy .

It's going ok... we're not getting millions of gigs but ticking over, and we're recording an album (well it might end up as an EP but in theory...). We've been having big recording issues. We started out in a proper studio with an engineer and so on, and just couldn't capture the sound even adequately. All the mid-range seemed to disappear, which is where most of stuff we do sits. The amount of button-twiddling that had to be done just to make the thing sound even vaguely like reality struck us as all wrong, so we're DIYing it in our normal rehearsal room which has great acoustics, with a mike each and two for the room (so we can have natural reverb and adjust it separately). But we're having trouble getting the vocal up front enough, so I think next time we're going to experiment with giving me a separate vocal mike with a lampshade attached to the stand! (based on a thing for sax players that I saw somewhere). Hopefully this'll separate the vocal a bit, but also reflect it back to me so I can hear myself better and sing better as a result. We're doing it almost entirely live ie playing together with no overdubs, because the way we play is very interactive and we're constantly reacting to each other. Hence no headphones.

As for compression, sometimes it seems to help with cutting out harsh bits, but when overdone it just kills the dynamic, which is what we're all about.

Um yes, that was the long version.

 

[iROBOT]

That's probably down to the studio's crappy Mic's. Always make sure a studio has dozens of mic's of differing configurations (and hope they know how to use em!)

Have you thought about doing the vocal separately?

 

[RubyToogood]

We're actually using the exact same mikes, but getting much better results with this different method.

We have thought about doing the vocal separately, but as I said, we play very interactively. A lot of our tunes don't have a strict tempo and it would be quite difficult to record the instrumental part and lay a vocal over the top of it, or vice versa. We've come to a point where we want to do the whole thing as organically as possible really and just concentrate on giving a good performance.

 

[lights.out.london]

^ for an acoustic instrument, RT, I'd use a Boss compression pedal or try an EQ pedal first. Much cheaper and simpler.

btw never got the link for the song writing compo you mentioned.

 

[ska invita]

My beats are sounding a bit crap and unprofessional. The main things I am concerned about are the kicks and snares. They need more punch, they sound weak.

Could anyone give me any decent tips or some kind of settings for a compressor?

Cheers

I presume your making drum based (dance) music so the kick and snare are all important. I would recommend this:
Make sure you have your kicks and snares and hats all going out to their own individual channel.

If you have sampled a break I would recommend chopping it up to individual components and splitting the kicks snares and hats to their own channels - although on the whole breaks have usually been compressed and mastered enough so shouldnt need any more mixing, other than turning up loud (See below...)

Compress
Insert a compressor on each track. Set the "threshold" high so that it doesnt actually compress the sound at all.

Now, turn up the "make up gain" which basically will make your kick or snare louder - turn it up so that it is going as loud as possible without actually distorting.

Limit
Now insert a limiter below the compressor - fiddle with the settings so that it doesnt have any audible effect on the sound of the kick or snare - you just want the limiter to stop the sound from ever breaking out the top of the mixer db range. Depends on the limiter - on a basic one it just needs to be limited to 0db.

If you use Cubase/Nuendo the steinberg compressor that comes with it has a compressor and a limiter in one - first it compresses, then limits:

In the picture the volume display appears only half up - thats just how the screencrab come out - actually it should be hitting the very top of the bar.

So do this process for the kick and the snare. Hats dont need to be so loud.

Recap
1.On your kick or snare track use the Make Up Gain to boost the signal to as loud as it will go without distorting. Dont use the Threshold to compress.

2. Set a limiter, with the limit at 0db (or 0.5db)

3. Turn up the volume on the track as loud as it goes without distorting...

4. Repeat for Kick and Snare.

5. Now Group the drum hits (See below)

Mono Group your Drums
Im asuming your virtual mixer is somewhat like the one above.

First you need to create a "group track" - for drums its best to make it a mono one. The option will be wherever you choose to make an audio track, or midi track, just a bit below.

Then go into the kick track - like in the picture above you'll see above the volume bar there is an output option - change it to the name of your Group Track (at first it will just say "Group 1", but you can rename it - Ive called it here "Drums M")

Change the output for Kick, Snare and Hats to your mono Group Track - now you can turn all the drums up and down with one fader, as well as tweaking the kick, snare and hats on their inidivual faders.

Turn up the group tracks as loud as it will go without distorting - possibly stick a limiter on it at 0db just incase - like above.

Personally I would do the same thing for the Bassline - Get it right up as loud as it will go.

Do the drums + bass first - everything else fits in around it. If it sounds too loud for your kind of music, just turn things down from there.

Hope thats some help Its hard to write up, so if anythign isnt clear ill try and explain it...

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I'm confused by your method - if you set the compressor so that it isn't actually compressing anything, why have it there in the first place

 

[ska invita]

I'm confused by your method - if you set the compressor so that it isn't actually compressing anything, why have it there in the first place

You use the compressor in order use the Make up Gain to boost the signal to its fullest capacity. Give it a try and see what you think of the results.

Most drums dont need "real" (threshold) compression - that would only serve to bring up the levels of the quiet parts (hi hats), and take out the dynamics of the punchy parts (kicks and snares). In house music you can use compression to make the kick drum come in and muffle the other elements through ducking, but this is quite rare.

I guess with recording live drums compression might come in usefull as velocities of hits change - through compression you can get them sounding even, making up for quiet hits, and compressing loud hits. With most computer based music this isnt necessary as all hits are even velocitity and all sampled breaks have already been compressed or evened out.

As a rule dont ever use threshold to compress your drums if you are making computer based music.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

You use the compressor in order use the Make up Gain to boost the signal to its fullest capacity.

Can't you just turn up the synth / normaise the audio file, save some CPU overheads?

For real drums compression is essential, as often you are not only using it to even out levels but to actually shape the tone of the sound - until you've played with lots of them you don't realise just how differnt various compressors sound.

Have a listen to this example:

http://www.focusrite.com/media/liquid/liquid_mix/audio/LiquidDrumsv2.mp3

Loop 1: 0 - 8 seconds: dry loop

Loop 2: 9 - 16 seconds: FF 130 compressor emulation, based on a Focusrite 130

Loop 3: 17 - 24 seconds: VINTAGE compressor emulation, based on a Fairchild 670

Loop 4: 25 - 33 seconds: DUNK 1a compressor emulation, based on a Manley Slam! in FET limiter mode

Loop 5: 34 - 41 seconds: BIG GREEN compressor emulation, based on a Joe Meek SC2

Loop 6: 42 - 50 seconds: MIX BUSS compressor emulation, based on a SSL FX G384

Loop 7: 51 - 59 seconds: TRANYC compressor emulation, based on a API 2500

Setting details:
All compression is fairly heavy - most are set to a Threshold of -20, with a pretty high ratio and attack of 1ms.
Releases are mostly around the 300ms mark and gain is around +10 for all.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Most drums dont need "real" (threshold) compression - that would only serve to bring up the levels of the quiet parts (hi hats), and take out the dynamics of the punchy parts (kicks and snares).

For drums grouped onto one track I'd agree, but if you have each element of the part on it's own track you can use different compressors to alter the tone of drums sounds in nice subtle ways that is difficult to do with synth programming alone.

As ever, golden rule is - if it sounds right, it is right

 

[ska invita]

Can't you just turn up the synth / normaise the audio file, save some CPU overheads?

For real drums compression is essential, as often you are not only using it to even out levels but to actually shape the tone of the sound - until you've played with lots of them you don't realise just how differnt various compressors sound.

.

agree on both points.

Often i find it is impossible to get the drum signal loud enough in the first place, no matter how much you turn it up. A compressor not only carries out a process it changes the tone and adds character, so there is a point in running through a nice (valve) compressor 9even a plug in) just for the sake of it. If your struggling to get punchy drums (as in the opening post) then boosting (with make up gain) then limiting these signals is usefull.

Yes, compression for real drums is a different thing - but I dont imagine many people here are recording real kits.

cant listen to the link at work - but will do later = thanks

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I dont imagine many people here are recording real kits.

I'm currently trying to salvage a fucking godawful set of drum recordings for a band I'm working with. They got the drums done by someone else and I'm doing everything else (guitars, vocals and synth) but whoever it was didn't have a bloody clue - by the sound of things the (cheap) mic positioning was all over the place (spill is awful and the tone is shit for everything) and the signal levels are about half what they need to be.

If I can get anything half decent from this lot I owe myself a pint

 

[ska invita]

If I can get anything half decent from this lot I owe myself a pint

Maybe one way to go is making the shit sound part of the easthetic - maybe even fling the drums through more processors: a bit more valve distortion, or a bit of overdrive, or ampo moddeing, or other distortions. It may not suit what the band are are trying to do, but if it does suit them I fund bad recordings can be covered up with disorting based effects a bit like rotten meat in a vindaloo.

I've got a copy of this one plug in which just does miracles in revitalising bad recordings, and alos adds a shit load of sparkle to good recordings - when I get home I'll up them and you (and anyone else!) can give them a try. Forget the names right now...

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

There's good, lo-fi grundgy shit, and there is well, shit.

I've got the latter


I'm 90% sure I'm going to have to get them to re-record the drums, this time with me at the controls...

 

[iROBOT]

We're actually using the exact same mikes, but getting much better results with this different method.

We have thought about doing the vocal separately, but as I said, we play very interactively. A lot of our tunes don't have a strict tempo and it would be quite difficult to record the instrumental part and lay a vocal over the top of it, or vice versa. We've come to a point where we want to do the whole thing as organically as possible really and just concentrate on giving a good performance.

Just read this...interesting. Crappy engineer then. Try getting hold of some AKG414's and using them to record your whole band as an ambient reinforcement for your main mic's, I've seen them being used by the BBC they add that elusive atmosphere missing from live mixdowns.

Also try to isolate yourself somehow from the rest of the band whilst still being in the same room, you can get porable screens nowadays that arnt too expensive.

Your band sounds fascinating.