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Completed first draft of my short story

Cadmus said:
I agree with most comments. Also when sharing files keep in mind that Word docs give a lot away about you - from name of author of document to when was the last time you saved it. PDF is much better. :)

I'm not really bothered about people knowing my name or time log on Word :confused:

what harm could i forseeably come to?

btw, RaggaKing, i find your comments valuable to this thread, if you read the whole thread drop me a PM saying what you think. im doing a BA in Lit meself you know.
 
Well, I've read the first two chapters...

I'll refrain from discussing the syntax, because I'm sure that others have a better grasp on things of that nature than I, but I will say this - even though it may not be perfect by convention, it's readable enough for a first draft, and I'm most interested in the story.

Which is not bad at all, so far. I'm generally quite intrigued by the difference in authorial voice between stories told in the first and the third person. So that bit, the duality, if you'd like, is interesting. Plus, it's got a sort of cyberpunkish air about it. Not a million miles from a Richard Morgan type thing.

I'm going to make a cup of tea and I'm gonna see what happens...

:)

One small thing... lay off the IT bods, innit? :( :p
 
You IT types, you're all ex-ravers with secret desires to return to India and shit :mad:

Yeah this is only me first version...

But keep going with the plot... it gets more elaborate.
 
Flavour said:
I'm not really bothered about people knowing my name or time log on Word :confused: what harm could i forseeably come to?
oh i dunno, it just seems so appropriate to point that our on this site... :D ;)
 
I don't understand.

Was this short story posted to only elicit comments that the author agreed with? If so he/she should ahve stated that quite clearly from the outset. To start slagging someone off who (quite legitimately in my view) offered some consctructive criticism seems way out of order. I hate to think what would have happened if someone has simply posted that "it was total shite".

If people are this sensitive, they shoudln't really publish their work on the Internet and ask people to read it.
 
zed baby it's cool, i don't mind the criticism, i've re-edited my story a lot reading this thread, don't jump on the sensitivity crisis bandwagon .
 
Flavour said:
zed baby it's cool, i don't mind the criticism, i've re-edited my story a lot reading this thread, don't jump on the sensitivity crisis bandwagon .

Good. Are you going to apologise to RaggaKing?
 
not long. i only finished it about 10 minutes before posting this thread

Obviously, each person is different, but as a rule of thumb I'd say you should easily spend as long editing any piece as you did writing it - often a lot longer.

No-one writes well enough to just spew out good fiction, and a story will get stronger and stronger with each edit. I have at least 3 to 4 drafts of a story before it's ready to show someone else, and in that time I might cut the word-count in half, give it a new ending, put some new characters in....

One can't get too attached to any piece, otherwise one starts resenting changes - and that makes a bad writer, full stop.

If you want a workshop on an unfinished piece, then that's one kind of process, if you want feedback on something you consider finished, that's another....but imo you should differentiate between the two as two entirely seperate stages, because in the production process that's what they are.

Likewise, you shouldn't get worried if large criticisms are made in the first stage - but if you submit something as a finished draft, and people are still suggesting large changes, then you know you've gone seriously awry.

As my old art teacher used to say, the only thing you should use more than your pencil is your rubber....!
;)
 
RaggaKing said:
Fuck off you ignorant imbecile. If you had a brain you would have realised that I was trying to help. Yet, as is so often the case when people submit their own work on the Internet they're expecting nothing but praise, and any constructive criticism is taken in completely the wrong way. Do you think the best selling authors of today got where they are without taking constructive criticism - criticism much more horrendous and blunt than I have used?



No, I didn't think so. If you think that's hard then you really need to grow a back bone. I've been studying literature almost my entire life and through the years have advanced with the help of teachers and parents who were quick to shoot me down, so over time I could eliminate mistakes one by one.

It's people like you who will say, "yeah it's excellent mate" but it's people like me who will say "that's not quite right, just change that bit and it should sound a lot better".... The difference is that after my views have been digested the document will go off and find some other end reader, who will praise the edited version of it a lot better than they would have of your "yeah it's excellent mate" piece.

Jesus fucking wept.

Look, I don't want to hold you up when your touchy bastard class is waiting too, but why don't you take your BA Lit, roll it up, lubricate it, and shove it as hard as possible up your hoop? Purely a suggestion.
 
foggypane said:
Look, I don't want to hold you up when your touchy bastard class is waiting too, but why don't you take your BA Lit, roll it up, lubricate it, and shove it as hard as possible up your hoop? Purely a suggestion.

I have to hand it to you... you should win a medal for that, because how you're able to type with your head so far up your arse is beyond me.

Wait. You're labelling me as the bad guy, because I'm trying to help. I love your logic, are you a member of Al-Qaeda per chance or were you one of the protesters at the Danish Embassies this week, because your anti-free speech speech is fucking awesome. Really, truly exemplary.

Now fuck off you cancerous tumour.
 
I have to hand it to you... you should win a medal for that, because how you're able to type with your head so far up your arse is beyond me.

I can touch type.

Wait. You're labelling me as the bad guy, because I'm trying to help. I love your logic, are you a member of Al-Qaeda per chance or were you one of the protesters at the Danish Embassies this week, because your anti-free speech speech is fucking awesome.

I'm labelling you as the bad guy because you have no manners and are a pompous twat. The sentence of yours quoted above adds to the charge sheet. You are hysterical too.

cancerous tumour.


Tautology.
 
Wookey said:
Obviously, each person is different, but as a rule of thumb I'd say you should easily spend as long editing any piece as you did writing it - often a lot longer.

No-one writes well enough to just spew out good fiction, and a story will get stronger and stronger with each edit. I have at least 3 to 4 drafts of a story before it's ready to show someone else, and in that time I might cut the word-count in half, give it a new ending, put some new characters in....

One can't get too attached to any piece, otherwise one starts resenting changes - and that makes a bad writer, full stop.

If you want a workshop on an unfinished piece, then that's one kind of process, if you want feedback on something you consider finished, that's another....but imo you should differentiate between the two as two entirely seperate stages, because in the production process that's what they are.

Likewise, you shouldn't get worried if large criticisms are made in the first stage - but if you submit something as a finished draft, and people are still suggesting large changes, then you know you've gone seriously awry.

As my old art teacher used to say, the only thing you should use more than your pencil is your rubber....!
;)

this is a first draft so there will be huge edits to minor things within the story but the basic plot will stay the same... mainly the dialogue i cant write/dont like
 
Hardly. You launched. I donned my cloak of manners enforcement. Sadly, sometimes it is necessary to be unmannerly in order to save good manners.

Off you go, and think about what you've done.
 
Flavour said:
i think your argument should be left off this thread, i have no problem with either poster.

You understand that I am trying to help though, right? Sorry if I came across as being a bit harsh, but this is only a message board, not tea with the fucking Queen of England, like some people seem to think it is.
 
foggypane said:
Hardly. You launched. I donned my cloak of manners enforcement. Sadly, sometimes it is necessary to be unmannerly in order to save good manners.

Off you go, and think about what you've done.

Ok, I've thought about it, and here's what I think....





















Go fuck yourself.
 
id appreciate a fuller more in depth criticism than what youve already given raggaking, i want you to read the whole thing and judge more on plot development than syntax/grammar, cos that can all b eosrted out later whereas the plot is finalised now
 
Flavour said:
id appreciate a fuller more in depth criticism than what youve already given raggaking, i want you to read the whole thing and judge more on plot development than syntax/grammar, cos that can all b eosrted out later whereas the plot is finalised now

Yeah ok, I'll give it a read tommorow, when I've got some spare time.
 
I'm doing this as I read it, so there may not be commonly duplicated faults.

First of all, part one. I didn't find it that engaging; a slightly more complex version of 'this then that then this then this then that then this'.

I think it'd be better if it was more subtle, and there's plenty of opportunity to do this. It's blinding obvious what it's all about by the end of the second, if not first, paragraph. It'd be a winner if it took ages to decide whether the story was about say, a rave, or a trip or something, and then 'ooh, a video game'.

Some of it reeks of a forced attempt to ape other styles, or more specifically, to add detail or phrases for the sake of it. It works, but only as the literary equivalent of Gath Marenghi; "I could not smell or taste anything. The air was completely devoid of aromas, and my taste buds lay dormant" is a slight example, though it could be worse. It's the wrong kind of repetition; reinforcing something we already know, like we're stupid and need to be told again. I wrote a story a bit like this, except I was taking the piss.

The rest of it is immeasurably better, but your average reader won't get that far. Part two is immediately much more readable and entertaining, and propels itself onward.

I agree with the poster who said about grammar. This is probably your story's biggest failing. It's vital, and no bollocks post-modernism is going to dilute this fact. If you want to be post-modernist, write the sodding thing in Esperanto txtspk. With a spoon. In space. Otherwise, do it properly. This also applies to dialogue.

On the same tip, too many brackets. They make the story look like it's made up of annotations, not natural parts, and it doesn't flow. You may as well use footnotes. In fact, that might actually work better.

As an overall concept, it's mediocre. It has more potential, but falls back into confusion. Ambiguity and not knowing what's going on is a key part of this tale, but drifting around without purpose is not. Again it feels a bit 'this then this etc' but with forced interludes in between. It has strong structure but needs either padding out with more detail, to make a longer story, or trimming down to fewer exchanges to make a more succint short snappy story with a kick. I favour the latter.

I don't know if that's the finished ending but it could do with more of a twist. You should go back to defeating the game and stop there. Then plot out a series of alternate endings; try to be dangerous, funny or malicious. Those are the more interesting paths to pursue. Who gives a shit about Liam?

That'll do for me - this is possibly the longest post I've ever written, and I don't really know why. I don't care if your story's a success or if you don't take any of this onboard, or even find it insulting; it's just the truth about what I think of it, or at least the more negative aspects of it. It's good, but needs more work and refinement, like any first draft.
 
mauvais mangue said:
it's just the truth about what I think of it, or at least the more negative aspects of it. It's good, but needs more work and refinement, like any first draft.

...The positive things don't need pointing out because they don't need changing. ;)
 
mauvais mangue said:
I'm doing this as I read it, so there may not be commonly duplicated faults.

First of all, part one. I didn't find it that engaging; a slightly more complex version of 'this then that then this then this then that then this'.

I think it'd be better if it was more subtle, and there's plenty of opportunity to do this. It's blinding obvious what it's all about by the end of the second, if not first, paragraph. It'd be a winner if it took ages to decide whether the story was about say, a rave, or a trip or something, and then 'ooh, a video game'.

Some of it reeks of a forced attempt to ape other styles, or more specifically, to add detail or phrases for the sake of it. It works, but only as the literary equivalent of Gath Marenghi; "I could not smell or taste anything. The air was completely devoid of aromas, and my taste buds lay dormant" is a slight example, though it could be worse. It's the wrong kind of repetition; reinforcing something we already know, like we're stupid and need to be told again. I wrote a story a bit like this, except I was taking the piss.

The rest of it is immeasurably better, but your average reader won't get that far. Part two is immediately much more readable and entertaining, and propels itself onward.

I agree with the poster who said about grammar. This is probably your story's biggest failing. It's vital, and no bollocks post-modernism is going to dilute this fact. If you want to be post-modernist, write the sodding thing in Esperanto txtspk. With a spoon. In space. Otherwise, do it properly. This also applies to dialogue.

On the same tip, too many brackets. They make the story look like it's made up of annotations, not natural parts, and it doesn't flow. You may as well use footnotes. In fact, that might actually work better.

As an overall concept, it's mediocre. It has more potential, but falls back into confusion. Ambiguity and not knowing what's going on is a key part of this tale, but drifting around without purpose is not. Again it feels a bit 'this then this etc' but with forced interludes in between. It has strong structure but needs either padding out with more detail, to make a longer story, or trimming down to fewer exchanges to make a more succint short snappy story with a kick. I favour the latter.

I don't know if that's the finished ending but it could do with more of a twist. You should go back to defeating the game and stop there. Then plot out a series of alternate endings; try to be dangerous, funny or malicious. Those are the more interesting paths to pursue. Who gives a shit about Liam?

That'll do for me - this is possibly the longest post I've ever written, and I don't really know why. I don't care if your story's a success or if you don't take any of this onboard, or even find it insulting; it's just the truth about what I think of it, or at least the more negative aspects of it. It's good, but needs more work and refinement, like any first draft.


Thanks. This is the sort of feedback I wanted. I think the beginning is important, but perhaps more subtelty wouldn't go amiss. the unfortunate thing about doing that is it would be lost on a first generation of readers (whose opinions are important) who already knew the plot. I thought about adding more and making it a longer story, but all the plot I imagined has already happened, and I think that's where the story ends. The love story is largely irrelevant, it just takes up some time between jeremy defeating the game in real life and him defeating the game on his TV screen.
 
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