"Common sense is the day-to-day ideology of the bourgeoisie"

[nino_savatte]

No, not shirty, m8, just noticed you presumed I wasn't here back then...

The horizons bit is there because the democratic left ("underground") was severely attacked by the authoritarian left (in power) in the sur-real socialist nonsense we had to fight to get some elementary achievements of Modernity in place... The "political gun slinging" of the "common sense" type seems universal...

Sorry but what does this have to do with the Right in this country seizing upon the elusive concept of "common sense" and appropriating it as their own?

 

[Barking_Mad]

I dont think anyone in the political spectrum has the 'right' to common sense or indeed that either side always possesses it or doesnt. However it would be fair to say that its those in power who are the most dangerous when it comes to speaking about it due to the nature and effects of their power.

As I said in my first post, common sense these days is often hidden in pseudo political language which is then repeated by those that either agree with it or are unable to exercise some critical thinking. If you think back to before the Iraq war started and use the ramblings of those who agreed with Bush and Blair there were some great examples of people talking what they claimed was "common sense", but was actually just political rhetoric. To borrow a quote,

Most people are convinced that as long as they are not overtly forced to do something by an outside power, their decisions are theirs, and that if they want something, it is they who want it. But this is one of the great illusions we have about ourselves. A great number of our decisions are not really our own but are suggested to us from the outside; we have succeeded in persuading ourselves that it is we who have made the decision, whereas we have actually conformed with expectations of others, driven by the fear of isolation and by more direct threats to our life, freedom, and comfort.

When these decisions are instead thoughts and those thoughts are portrayed as 'common sense' then you have some very dangerous ground on which peoples basic 'morals' are based. Of course its not limited to just politicians, its engrained by the media too...

Ask an average newspaper reader what he thinks about a certain political question. He will give you as "his" opinion a more or less exact account of what he has read, and yet--and this is the essential point--he believes that what he is saying is the result of his own thinking.

This leads you to ask what indeed is common sense and what isn't.

"Dont put your hand in the fire as you will burn it" - is a basic piece of common sense, but how can you portray commons sense in other areas of life such as politics and beliefs? Surely part of this is the ability to recognise fundamental truths? Which of course is another argument entirely!

 

[nino_savatte]

Common sense belongs with all the other conceptual metaphors..."We are your Leaders. We will protect you. Surrender your freedoms".

 

[gorski]

Sorry but what does this have to do with the Right in this country seizing upon the elusive concept of "common sense" and appropriating it as their own?

Depends how you define the political "Right", m8... Here a weird thing is going on... The Left is right of centre, the Liberals are Left of the alleged Left and the Right is all over the fookin' shop...

See the txt I mentioned ("What is Enlightenment" by Kant) and you'll know what I mean, when it comes to principles...

Otherwise, I agree with Hutton when he goes bonkers in relation to the Right complaining how he wants to legislate (from the Left) and that's a horror story that stifles etc. - whereas when his political opponents (the Right) wants to legislate that's perfectly "natural"... In that sense, of course, it's correct to say what you are trying to say.

However, it is not exclusive to this country and it is not exclusive to the Right!

 

[nino_savatte]

Depends how you define the political "Right", m8... Here a weird thing is going on... The Left is right of centre, the Liberals are Left of the alleged Left and the Right is all over the fookin' shop...

See the txt I mentioned ("What is Enlightenment" by Kant) and you'll know what I mean, when it comes to principles...

Otherwise, I agree with Hutton when he goes bonkers in relation to the Right complaining how he wants to legislate (from the Left) and that's a horror story that stifles etc. - whereas when his political opponents (the Right) wants to legislate that's perfectly "natural"... In that sense, of course, it's correct to say what you are trying to say.

However, it is not exclusive to this country and it is not exclusive to the Right!

You haven't been following my posts, have you? Because this reply is based on something in your head and not on anything that I have said.

And Kant? Do me a favour!

 

[gorski]

And which favour would that be? That (Kant's text) is a seminal piece of work defining Enlightenment, ergo... wtf???

No, I haven't been carefully following your messages as there are quite a few of them but what I wrote is directly connected to those I quoted and addressed, whether explicitly or in implications... But I am not interested in futile personal, petty stuff... Can we go back to the issues, please?

 

[nino_savatte]

And which favour would that be? That (Kant's text) is a seminal piece of work defining Enlightenment, ergo... wtf???

No, I haven't been carefully following your messages as there are quite a few of them but what I wrote is directly connected to those I quoted and addressed, whether explicitly or in implications... But I am not interested in futile personal, petty stuff... Can we go back to the issues, please?

In which case I have nothing to say to you since you are only here to take the piss. Now if you don't mind, I have better things to do than to massage your ego.

 

[gorski]

Don't be daft...

 

[laptop]

In which case I have nothing to say to you since you are only here to take the piss.

What, by suggesting you read Kant?

I have concluded it's essential to understanding what joined-up Europe is on about. Even if you're a committed Humean (in which case I would propose that it is imperative that you be committed ) I've stalled on it, but I observe that every political person I've met from le Continong in the past five years recognises the joke that the conflict between Europe and the US is the conflice between Kant and Hume.

Meanwhile, I'm stunned that no-one has yet mentioned the obvious google. Which produces precisely one result:

Didn't Gramsci write that "common sense is the day to day ideology of the bourgeoisie"? Yes but don't remind our Gramsci or he'll go all postmodern on us again.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-90540.html

 

[nino_savatte]

What, by suggesting you read Kant?

I have concluded it's essential to understanding what joined-up Europe is on about. Even if you're a committed Humean (in which case I would propose that it is imperative that you be committed ) I've stalled on it, but I observe that every political person I've met from le Continong in the past five years recognises the joke that the conflict between Europe and the US is the conflice between Kant and Hume.

Meanwhile, I'm stunned that no-one has yet mentioned the obvious google. Which produces precisely one result:

I've read a little Kant but I still don't see gorski's 'points'. He's also been taking the piss since post 24. I merely pointed out how the phrase "common sense" had been appropriated as a piece of right wing rhetoric in the 80's by the Tories. Gorski decided that he/she didn't want to know and proceeded to engage in a series of irrelevancies.

 

[gorski]

You just don't get it, I'm afraid and keep presuming a helluva lot - reading into my words stuff that just isn't there...

No piss take: keep reading and it might start to dawn on you... eventually. No good thing comes easy...

 

[nino_savatte]

You just don't get it, I'm afraid and keep presuming a helluva lot - reading into my words stuff that just isn't there...

I get the feeling that you believe you are involved in the same conversation. Unfortunately your posts don't ever appear to be in response to mine. You sidetrack and divert. If anyone is reading something into a post that isn't there, it is you.

 

[gorski]

Yeah, right... In that case, since it's all futile - do you think we could stop it, please?