Coming out of the closet as Aspie at work...

[panpete]

I went for an Aspergers assessment last year, but was not diagnosed at all as being in the autistic spectrum.
Like many aspergers (pre-diagnosis) I too have felt the same strange disconnection from the outside world. I have unexplainable behaviour which confounds and alienates people sometimes.
Of all the people I know who treated me bad and alienated me, I think knowing why I was the way I was would have made events turn a different course.
I would rather not have a wrong diangnosis, yet, I felt an uncannily large amount of aspects of autism symptoms had connections with me.

The reason I was not diagnosed on the spectrum was my creative and empathic aspects I think, if I remember rightly (bad memory for important things another unexplainable trait of mine)
I dont have a great amount of creativity or empathy, but the small amount I tested to have rendered me outside the spectrum.

My online self education on such matters shows aspies and autistic people can be creative and empathic, but have repressed these faculties, perhaps through witnessing someone suffer at the hands of others, at a point early on in life, when they were too young to intergrate the experience. Thus, the faculty for empathy is dulled or repressed.

 

[panpete]

I did say to my boss that because the room where I work is one where people are sometimes a bit abrupt, but at the end of the particular task, because everyone knows people sometimes snap or bark instructions (instead of asking politely) in the heat of the moment, we all thank one another and just move on, and no one takes it personally. I thought it might be that. But my boss said it wasn't that particular room/environment where I work.

I was an office worker who mis-read others barks and abruptness as something not to be taken personally, but really, these things are just a cheap underhanded way of venting ones personal frustrations onto an unsuspecting other.
If someone barks at you, and you can see no reason why, its not always your fault. Generally, I find, when it is your fault, people only bark at you, when they've asked politely and civilly before. Anything else is about them.

I fail to read cues in others though (another unexplainable trait), however, I have addressed this by staying away from situations where I fail to read cues, those being, pressure or stress situations where un-necessary anxiety clouds my perception. I am more able to make contact with my intuition, and "smell" the cues correctly, in situations where I am not over-stressed. This has helped.

 

[minxcariad]

Hello Ann,

By the very fact that you've told your line manager at work that you have Aspergers, you are immediately and automatically covered by the Disability Discrimination Act. I recommend you go and check out what this means and what your rights now are. It means they have to make 'reasonable adjustment' and not pick on you/discriminate against you for things that are part of your Aspie nature.

However, it sounds as though your boss may not be clear what Aspergers is and isn't. It may be worth printing of something official from Wikipedia or the BBC or something for them.

I am increasingly 'out' about having bipolar, with people I know, and with clients and colleagues. It helps explain a lot. The secrecy/covering up/lying/being misunderstood is stressful. Hope this doesn't sound pompous, but gandhi said 'be the change you seek in the world' and as I want to create a world in which mental health stuff isn't stigmatised and taboo, I'm prepared to be one of those pioneers.

And sometimes that comes at personal cost, and is a pain in the arse too.

I told a previous boss (who is widely known as a manipulative twat anyway, it has to be said) that I had bipolar and he immediately started treating me like some kind of dangerous animal that was about to bite him - wouldn't even make eye contact any more. He had the gall to remove some training work from me (which I'd previously performed to excellent standards, ups and downs nonwithstanding) because I had "a state management issue", which when queried, turned out to be that some days I'd be quiet or need to work without loud music in the office in order to concentrate.

I mean really. As you said - bit like employing someone you know to be dyslexic, then having a go because they can't spell.

I wasn't aware of my rights/legal protection at the time - these days I wouldn't hesitate to challenge him or even have him over a Disability Discrimination barrel.

Don't mean to tell you an off putting story, either. Most of my work experiences since I've 'come out' are positive, inspiring, and supportive.

And I don't like thinking of myself as disabled, either - but when life gives you lemons, make lemonade, as they say.

Apparently, if you don't 'self-disclose' or admit it on a form, you are NOT covered by the act, ditto if you lie about it if asked directly; but if you DO tell them, then you are protected and they're not allowed to discriminate against you. I keep hearing variations on this - I've got to research it for an article anyhow, so I'll post a thread when I've worked out the ins and outs.

Hope this helps - you helped me in the past with legal stuff, too.

Good luck, and let me know any questions x

 

[cesare]

Cheers Ann re #28.

If I were you I'd probably be getting a bit stressed out with all this, and spending entirely too much time thinking about it and analysing it. I'm not you though. That's me, not you.

But if you're worriting, remember what I said. Your boss is paid to do this/take responsibility for at least thinking about what can be done, possibilities. Put the ball in his/her court. I'm not suggesting that you abdicate personal responsibility - just that you cut yourself some slack for now. Bat it back, and try and just keep on keeping on for a few days x

 

[8ball]

. . . I'm 99% certain my husband has it, and he doesn't know. I've never told him that because how the Hell do you tell someone?

I think a lot of wives are convinced their husbands are a bit autistic.

Get him an 'Aspie and proud' t-shirt.

If he wears it but never asks a question about the slogan on the front, then you're probably right about your husband.

 

[XR75]

I'm also really concerned because it comes under mental health classifications, and that's still such a taboo.

If someone came out of the closet as gay, it's accepted as part of who they are.

But if someone comes out of the closet as being something that's considered by psychiatrists (but not by me or many other Aspies) to be a diagnosable mental health condition, it seems to me that it's considered to be bad, that they're somehow a defective person, instead of just being different.

That's because parts of them are defective.

 

[winterinmoscow]

no. it wouldn't make me think of them any differently.

 

[minxcariad]

What do you mean XR75?

 

[Poot]

I think a lot of wives are convinced their husbands are a bit autistic.

Get him an 'Aspie and proud' t-shirt.

If he wears it but never asks a question about the slogan on the front, then you're probably right about your husband.

Having checked it out on the internet, he ticks pretty much every box including the "rolling" walk and complete lack of any kind of empathy or imagination. He's a well-respected academic and scientist who is utterly, utterly focused on his very narrow field. He seems to spend most of his time trying to act "normal". He takes everything absolutely literally, which confuses most of our friends. He eschews any kind of affection, either from me or his toddler son. His uncle suffers from severe autism.

However, if he was "normal" (I hate that word) I wouldn't feel about him the way I do.

Or to put it another way, I'd RATHER spend time with someone who has Aspergers, whether they know it or not.

 

[The Unseen]

I find Autism and Aspergers deeply interesting, my cousins son has autism which causes him to have a riot. He has so much fun, everythings his, like the worlds his oyster, and has a brilliant way of dealing with problems by just repeating what people say to him. He wants to look at everything, touch everything etc.. without being able to communicate you can still have a brilliant time with him. I'm sure he understands most things though

On the subject in hand, i think you might find that most people will show an interest. If they don't, they might not want to say something offensive (the fear aspect) or are way to biggoted to waste energy on.

You sound like a very confident person to me, with a slight concern on a relatively new subject in the *grand scale of things. 'You'll be rate'!

*in a work place environment at least

 

[Dhimmi]

I'd like to think it wouldn't change my attitude to them in the slightest. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

 

[frogwoman]

i'd be very careful about saying anything like that at work.

i probably have some aspbergers traits (i often take stuff literally, im good but not that good at small talk, etc), but not the actual condition. same for a lot of people though, tbh. especially people with dyspraxia, which i have.

i think cloo is right, people have become a lot more aware of what aspergers is in recent years and in some professions, it's an advantage (I remember hearing about a software company that specifically wanted people with aspergers to join as they were more likely to have skills needed in that line of work)

To be honest my friend who has aspergers is a lot more understanding and perceptive than some people i know who are supposedly "normal".

i'd be really worried about telling work private stuff though, the way i've always looked at it is not to let anyone know and not to let it affect the way i do stuff and just try to act "normal" in whatever way possible. maybe thats just how i was brought up though, but i didn't get a disability allowance for uni even though i was entitled to one because of my dyspraxia and i didn't get a extenuating circumstances form last year when my ocd went fucking crazy.

i just don't like the idea of being treated like im some kind of retard because that's what happened to me in school most of the time

and to be honest, i don't mean you and i'm all for people being allowed to stay on incapacity benefits and such like if they are genuinely unable to work but it does fucking irritate me when people use minor problems, to basically take the piss. Like today my friend was saying that he didn't want to go to any of his seminars because he was depressed, he had only been to about one or two last term and his attendance record was so poor last year that he had to have several meetings with the head of department. and today i saw him and he basically said to me that he couldn't go to his seminars because he was depressed (even though he often goes out to the pub with us, he goes out more than i fucking do at the moment!!) i mean for fuck's sake. Last term, i was diagnosed with a serious mental illness (well, serious at the time) my parents split up, i stopped talking to my dad for a few months, i had to cope with living on my own for the first time, and yet i only missed about three lectures in total the whole of last year. i just feel that it is just taking the piss to do that.

but sorry for derailing your thread, i didn't mean to have a rant. Good luck with whatever you decide

 

[XR75]

What do you mean XR75?

Something's not working properly giving them Asperger symptoms like someone with a heart defect won't be as fully functional as someone with a normal heart.

 

[rollinder]

That's because parts of them are defective.

Thanks

you cunt

 

[Badgers]

I would take the piss out of you...
Saying that I take the piss out of everyone in my work for everything little thing.

Seriously though I would not care one jot if a co-worker had Aspergers. I think that there are a lot of people 30+ that have lived and worked with a variety of syndromes that were never picked up in the late 70s - early 80s.

 

[aeon flux]

I would take the piss out of you...
Saying that I take the piss out of everyone in my work for everything little thing.

Seriously though I would not care one jot if a co-worker had Aspergers. I think that there are a lot of people 30+ that have lived and worked with a variety of syndromes that were never picked up in the late 70s - early 80s.

lol



thought the OP had gone overseas? Are you posting from far away lands?

 

[laptop]

Throw the ball back in [boss's] court. Your boss has a duty to take responsibility for thinking this through, both in terms of the department and their duty of care to you. That's what they're paid to do.

Good employment advice - natch. And if they can't say what it is they want improved, they can't discipline you.

You could say that employment law shows ASD tendencies - everyone must say exactly what they mean

I asked for examples as to what I've said or done to cause offence, but no specific examples were given, so I don't have a clue as to who I've apparently offended or how.

The problem with my boss wanting me to improve my behaviour is that if I don't know what I'm supposed to have done or to whom, then I obviously don't know I'm doing it, so how am I supposed to stop it?

However, in personal terms I suspect that the boss actually can't say what they want to change.

My guess at some things they'd like would be:

• To pretend to enjoy content-free chat (remember, it's their grooming behaviour);
• To pretend that it's OK to be imprecise on purpose;
• To work out strategies for finding out what people do mean, without them noticing they're undergoing a reference library interview;
• To pretend that it's OK to ask you to change without saying what you're doing

 

[XR75]

Thanks

you cunt

Cry some more unless you have anything useful to say.

 

[dylanredefined]

That's because parts of them are defective.

Tactless maybe but also factual .I dont understand why people get upset over this .

 

[laptop]

I don't understand why people get upset over this.

It reminds me of the 70s, hierarchies of oppression and equal value of absolutely everything.


* shortsighted and proud *

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Tactless maybe but also factual .I dont understand why people get upset over this .

I'm not upset. I just really despair at people's ignorance.

In an earlier post, I compared the situation for Aspies today with that of homosexuals in 1950s and 1960s Britain.

Back then, homosexuality was classified as a psychiatric condition.

Today, Aspergers Syndrome comes under DMV-IV - a classification system for psychiatric conditions.

Would anyone today (apart from a handful of religious extremists or homophobic bigots) argue that homosexuals are "defective" individuals? Or is homosexuality now widely accepted as a different from but equally valid as heterosexuality?

Likewise, I believe that I'm not "defective", there is nothing "wrong" with me, per se, I'm just different to neurotypical people. I believe that within the next few decades, public attitudes to Aspies will change as did public attitudes towards homosexuality. I believe that within a couple of decades, Asperger's Syndrome will no longer be a diagnosable condition.

That's why I say I'm Aspie. I don't "have" Asperger's Syndrome, any more than a gay person "has" homosexuality. It's something I am. And it's normal. I'm normal. Just a bit different to neurotypical people.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I went for an Aspergers assessment last year, but was not diagnosed at all as being in the autistic spectrum.
Like many aspergers (pre-diagnosis) I too have felt the same strange disconnection from the outside world. I have unexplainable behaviour which confounds and alienates people sometimes.
Of all the people I know who treated me bad and alienated me, I think knowing why I was the way I was would have made events turn a different course.
I would rather not have a wrong diangnosis, yet, I felt an uncannily large amount of aspects of autism symptoms had connections with me.

The reason I was not diagnosed on the spectrum was my creative and empathic aspects I think, if I remember rightly (bad memory for important things another unexplainable trait of mine)
I dont have a great amount of creativity or empathy, but the small amount I tested to have rendered me outside the spectrum.

My online self education on such matters shows aspies and autistic people can be creative and empathic, but have repressed these faculties, perhaps through witnessing someone suffer at the hands of others, at a point early on in life, when they were too young to intergrate the experience. Thus, the faculty for empathy is dulled or repressed.

Where was your assessment impludo?

Diagnosing Aspergers in adults is quite tricky, much more so than diagnosing in children or adolescents, because undiagnosed adult Aspies have had years of experience of 'masking' traits. And also, some practitioners seem not to take on board the nature of some traits being "developmentally delayed". Some practitioners seem to think that if you can maintain eye contact as an adult, or do this or do that, then that means you're okay. But such behaviours can be learned. Just because you do some stuff as an adult, that doesn't mean to say that years ago, you wouldn't have been diagnosed as AS as a child or adolescent, because years ago, you presented more typically.

One of the best known books about AS is Lianne Holliday Willey's "Pretending to be Normal". And that's what a lot of Aspies do. One of the main differences between classic autistics and Aspies is that Aspies are very much aware that there is something different, they can see other people socialising and very much feel that there is something 'missing'. A lot of Aspies try their very best to blend in (because they can learn behaviours that are innate to neurotypicals) and that can mean that you blend in too well and by the time you reach adulthood, you're so well versed in blending in, you've spent years learning and adapting, that a non-experienced practitioner can rule out a diagnosis of AS, because a non-diagnosed adult who's spent years trying to mask their traits and be more like neurotypicals presents very differently at assessment to a child or adolescent Aspie.

Might be worth trying to get referred to a particular specialist for a second opinion?

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I would take the piss out of you...
Saying that I take the piss out of everyone in my work for everything little thing.

Seriously though I would not care one jot if a co-worker had Aspergers. I think that there are a lot of people 30+ that have lived and worked with a variety of syndromes that were never picked up in the late 70s - early 80s.

You're right. While it was first noted by Asperger in the... off the top of my head... 1940s, his work wasn't translated from German into English for many years, and it wasn't until the early 1980s that his work became more widely known in the UK.

Before, say, early-mid 1980s, no one would have been 'diagnosed' in the UK, so there are probably thousands of people who slipped through the diagnostic net.

Again, though, the diagnosis is a double edged sword. I don't agree with it being 'diagnosed', I think it should just be recognised as a difference within the normal tolerance of different personality types.

 

[XR75]

Likewise, I believe that I'm not "defective", there is nothing "wrong" with me, per se, I'm just different to neurotypical people. I believe that within the next few decades, public attitudes to Aspies will change as did public attitudes towards homosexuality. I believe that within a couple of decades, Asperger's Syndrome will no longer be a diagnosable condition.

Isn't that like saying all handicapped people are perfectly fine even when they are affected by whatever problem they have e.g a person in a wheel chair unable to cross a bumpy road or stairs.
If they had Aspergers they would be limited in a different area by whatever parts of the disorder they have.

I'm not saying theres anything bad about it but there seems to be a lot of denial around the issue.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Isn't that like saying all handicapped people are perfectly fine even when they are affected by whatever problem they have e.g a person in a wheel chair unable to cross a bumpy road or stairs.

Kind of. I guess. That's where there's a difference between the medical and social models of disability. The social model points out that it is, by and large, not individuals who are disabled, but society that disables those individuals.

e.g. person in a wheelchair can access upper floors to a building if there is a regular lift or chair lift, but not if the architect and builders only installed a flight of stairs, i.e. the wheelchair user isn't disabled, it is the architect and builders who dis-abled that person from accessing the building.

Likewise a visually impaired person isn't disabled when it comes to using computers, they are perfectly able to use computers, so long as there is voice recognition software installed. If a company or school or whoever doesn't install the appropriate software, then it is the company or school that dis-ables the visually impaired person from accessing services or resources, they're not intrinsically incapable or disabled, they just not enabled, they're dis-abled by others, by society.

If they had Aspergers they would be limited in a different area by whatever parts of the disorder they have.

I'm not saying theres anything bad about it but there seems to be a lot of denial around the issue.

Again, I'd argue that these amount to differences, it's not a matter of denial.

The way I go about saying or doing something is sometimes different. To turn it on it's head, I could quite easily argue that neurotypical people are 'disabled' because they lack certain abilities that I possess.

E.g. In an earlier post, I mentioned that a colleague had a habit I found offensive. Neurotypical behaviour in such a situation is to bite your tongue, but bitch and complain about it behind the person's back and let all the ill-feeling simmer away and cause increasing resentment and hostility.

In that situation, me in my blunt, straightforward Aspie manner, I said to the colleague, actually I find that offensive, would you mind not doing it, and he stopped. Problem solved.

Who's in denial about their 'disability' in such a scenario? A neurotypical person who is too emotionally wound up, i.e. dysfunctional to address a problem. Or me, who sees a problem, and goes about solving it?

A neurotypical person will see me as 'disabled' and in denial, because I don't buy into tiptoeing around a person's sensitivities, because they'd rather avoid issues and simmer away... whereas I don't see myself as disabled or in denial, I see myself as someone who is able to look at such a situation/problem dispassionately, to recognise what the problem is, (someone is doing something that offends me), I address the problem immediately and directly (I speak with them straightaway instead of simmering with resentment and/or bitching about them behind their back like a neurotypical person would), and I tell them what would solve the problem/achieve the desired outcome (I say, please will you stop doing that).

So, again, it's not a matter of disability or denial, it's a matter of difference.

 

[8ball]

I'm not saying theres anything bad about it but there seems to be a lot of denial around the issue.

So presumably left-handed people are handicapped as evinced by their increased tendency to have accidents?

Obviously the 'be right-handed' part of their brain is defective.

 

[Jonti]

... The social model points out that it is, by and large, not individuals who are disabled, but society that disables those individuals.

...

This is nowhere more clear than in the case of deafness.

If Signing were taught Europe-wide, from infant school up, deaf people would no longer be anywhere nearly as badly disabled as they are at the moment.

And hearing people would have their minds expanded by learning a completely different, non-linear, wordless language. And one that works in noisy environments as well

 

[8ball]

Sign language would be useful in all sorts of scenarios but I suspect that some deaf people would be less-than-impressed with the Muggles barging in on their secret world.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

This is nowhere more clear than in the case of deafness.

If Signing were taught Europe-wide, from infant school up, deaf people would no longer be anywhere nearly as badly disabled as they are at the moment.

And hearing people would have their minds expanded by learning a completely different, non-linear, wordless language. And one that works in noisy environments as well

My Australian friend who lives in Tasmania told me that the school her children went to, Auslan (Australian sign language) was the second language taught. Other schools taught Japanese or whatever, but her children's school taught Auslan to all the children (not just deaf children). I thought that was brilliant.

And I don't know why deaf programming is shunted off to the early hours. I don't see why a prime time programme shouldn't be broadcast in the same format, i.e. with the inset screen, with the sign language interpreter standing next to it. As someone who suffered quite badly from insomnia a while back, and who watched a fair amount of signed programmes, I'd say it takes a little while to get used to, but after a while you don't really notice it. Why should deaf people have to stay up till ridiculous o'clock to watch a programme? Why shouldn't they watch it at the same time as everyone else?

 

[8ball]

I think your argument may be pretty moot soon as when the signal is switched over to digital this will be something that will be easy to switch on and off.