kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
I said something similar about 3 months back about entering an age of corporate feudalism and was roundly shouted down for it...
Come the next election, local and General let us left thinkers snuff out New Labour.
- Thread starter Hocus Eye.
- Start date
I said something similar about 3 months back about entering an age of corporate feudalism and was roundly shouted down for it...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
But that's idiot nonsense.
i did not see your post and am sadly not suprised that happened some people see only what they want to see. To many on these boards idealogically speaking the past is a cosy snug place
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
That'd be the one 
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Capitalist feudalism anyone? Do you even know what these terms refer to? Feudalism by definition is non-capitalist. Wouldn't you say BA?
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Probably is in the marxist definitions. Meanwhile in the real world, both systems have/had many different attributes - often being different attributes to those claimed by/for them. So I'd say it's complicated
How so?
I think you need to read the postmodern condition, and familiarize yourself with 'Fordism' in context to the way society is developing politically,socially techonologically and economically with regards to both globalisation and the growing importance hybridity of the bio-tech industries/ military industrial complex as magnets for investment which in turn will help stimulate the 'growth'
the system needs to maintain its dominance. Wheres ones shandy
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
It's not impossible. What's emerging around the globe doesn't look like "normal" capitalism at all. For one thing, it seems to be gradually freeing itself (via technology and other methods) of it's "gravedigger" - the working classes - which are being shrunken and increasingly marginalised in terms of numbers and usefullness to the system.
Another is how remarkably little capitalism produces anymore - instead, vast profits are made simply by shunting money around various markets.
I know you don't agree here, as we've spoken about this before.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's a good point, and one worth pursuing.
Spion
I hear ya
Some evidence would be nice. Even just a little bit, as this all sounds like utterly groundless speculation to me
You do a good imperession of a breeze block.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Only in long established capitalist nations - the w/c jobs have all be farmed out to cheaper labour markets, so the gravedigger is still with us, just not in the UK anymore.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Less and less manufacturing, bigger and bigger roles for finance capitalism (capitalism's "beaurocracy class", if you like), never ending layoffs (coupled with tighter and tighter restrictions on benefits) all over the place, fewer concentrations of workers in each workplace - yet larger numbers of adminitrators and managers ...
Good enough for a kickoff?
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Even then, for how long? I get the feeling this is a temporary phenomenon pending the "phasing out" of the gravedigger worldwide.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Can someone not take a misquoted quote and use it in the first place.
I said corporate fuedalism, not capitalist fuedalism - entities acting and behaving in the same way as feudal kingdoms within the greater superstructure of capitalism - examples would be indentured labourers and those 'guest workers' who have their passports taken from them, effectively removing their ability to move around; the 00000s of illegeal Mexican immigrants and convicts in the US on 'workfare' schemes (not to mention the countless 00s of Chinese prisoners who are essentially a huge pool of slave labour).
Actually i would say there are some confused/lazy people who like to be spoon fed ideaology from the 20th century.
exactly
Spion
I hear ya
Not really. I said evidence, not speculation
Spion
I hear ya
I still don't see why any of that is not capitalist (apart from the eg of China, which isn't capitalist).
All of this is so evidence free. Let's see some for god's sake instead of this tinfoil hat nonsense
Branson and Murdoch having a fight?
I don't really buy the idea that the working class is shrinking, or that we're producing any less than we ever did. Surely more commodities are in circulation now than ever before, and they aren't all being made by robots. Production has has just been outsourced to poorer countries. And if this is true, it follows that the working class has to be envisaged as a transnational social grouping. Just because it isn't so visible to 'us' doesn't mean it's not there.
Spion
I hear ya
Yes and no. There working classes are still here but they don't work in manual jobs so much any more
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7228515.stm
And just by the by, see what these fellahs achieved last year
http://www.merip.org/mero/mero092907.html
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
There are working class people here still obviously - but the majority (by far) of the working people who support our lifestyles in this country do live in poor countries - something that seems to escape the attention of a lot of the lefties here.
I also think it's wrong to say that China isn't capitalist. Yes, it has a lot of state involvement in its capitalism, but then so do the US and UK, whatever they like to claim - the difference is only one of degree. In some ways it is more capitalist than here - healthcare provision is market-based for example.
I also think it's wrong to say that China isn't capitalist. Yes, it has a lot of state involvement in its capitalism, but then so do the US and UK, whatever they like to claim - the difference is only one of degree. In some ways it is more capitalist than here - healthcare provision is market-based for example.
Spion
I hear ya
I was under the impression that there is no private property in the means of production and that the vast bulk of the economy is bureacratically planned.
And market-based healthcare, you say? Remarkable. Any links to illustrate this?
Spion
I hear ya
Yeah, that's right, cos if I was campaigning in my locale I'd be talking about EXACTLY the same things as I have done hereThe thread started as a discussion about how the 'left' should replace NuLab in the next couple of years .....
... & goes on to demonstrate why this isn't going to happen...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What on earth gave you that idea?
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