Combating the BNP in local elections.

[The Black Hand]

Where did I say that? What anti-fascism does Balbi want to "practice"? Handing out leaflets? That would make many more likely to vote BNP. Banning the BNP from standing in elections? I disagree with your opinions. Shall I ban your opinions? Contrary to what many on the left claim, the BNP are not about to seize power at the next election. They are a pathetic tiny rump of a party. Beat them with better arguments.

We actually agree on the size of the BNP and their ability to make/take/gain power. But that doesn't mean it is not a struggle that deserves a level of action relevant to their actual size. And in the case mentioned if they are standing in somebodies area then of course this is going to climb up people's relative assesment of their importance...

On the one hand you want to beat them with better arguments, but some people's arguments is in a physical way. Not all are capable of nor want to engage in politics in the ways you say...

 

[The Black Hand]

Its not a bogstandard response. Its a belief that to work with Searchlight- as proven by events in history- is a price that cannot afford to be paid

Secondly the analysis provided by Searchlight is getting incresingly falkey and rabid as time goes by. Their hatred for the BNP has blinded them to the reality of the situation on the ground- which is BNP growth, and a very large number of candidates in May -based on the numbers announced so far.

The alternative- a political alternative to them at the ballot box- and No Platform tactics to prevent them from organising

Your para one is an accurate assesment, but that doesn't mean you should shout it at all events in all circumstances. Rather a more circumspect approach in practice with those concerned may pay more dividends.

BTW What sort of 'political alternative at the ballot box do you promote'? And by the way, there is a 'third position' (and more positions) - mass class struggles which are de facto anti fascism...

How many candidates announced so far? And is there a web address which isn't fascist that lists them all? This is the sort of information independent anti fascists would like to see...

 

[Balbi]

At the minute it's believed they're having trouble getting their signatories, as the list is always made public when the candidates are announced. Not many people want to admit in the paper they're right on with the BNP it would seem.

Having had a brief chat with an old friend who's working for one of the contesting parties, it seems they're all united on one thing. They won't respond to anything the BNP say, unless it breaks laws, in which case they'll stitch them up with lawyers. It's good to see inter-party cooperation sometimes

There's also an AF group operating out of the town, who've already been in contact with my friend about potential action.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Its not a bogstandard response. Its a belief that to work with Searchlight- as proven by events in history- is a price that cannot afford to be paid

Secondly the analysis provided by Searchlight is getting incresingly falkey and rabid as time goes by. Their hatred for the BNP has blinded them to the reality of the situation on the ground- which is BNP growth, and a very large number of candidates in May -based on the numbers announced so far.

The alternative- a political alternative to them at the ballot box- and No Platform tactics to prevent them from organising

I agree--and to say, as elsewhere on this thread that a "circumspect" approach should be adopted when dealing with Searchlight scum is a peculiar position from anybody claiming to be an anarchist...

 

[militant atheist]

Its a belief that to work with Searchlight- as proven by events in history- is a price that cannot afford to be paid

Would you care to elaborate, Jim?

 

[The Black Hand]

I agree--and to say, as elsewhere on this thread that a "circumspect" approach should be adopted when dealing with Searchlight scum is a peculiar position from anybody claiming to be an anarchist...

I fear you have misunderstood me Mr O'Hara - I said this;

"Your para one is an accurate assesment, but that doesn't mean you should shout it at all events in all circumstances. Rather a more circumspect approach in practice with those concerned may pay more dividends."

What I mean by this is that everybody in and around all these groups thrown up e.g. RVAR, and others, is that they all can't be into Searchlight in advance. They won't be loyal to them organisationally, and so slagging off everybody who is in these groups where one,a couple, a few, do the work with Searchlight is mistaken IMHO. I fear you do, and are in danger of, throwing the baby away with the bathwater...

 

[The Black Hand]

At the minute it's believed they're having trouble getting their signatories, as the list is always made public when the candidates are announced. Not many people want to admit in the paper they're right on with the BNP it would seem.

Having had a brief chat with an old friend who's working for one of the contesting parties, it seems they're all united on one thing. They won't respond to anything the BNP say, unless it breaks laws, in which case they'll stitch them up with lawyers. It's good to see inter-party cooperation sometimes

There's also an AF group operating out of the town, who've already been in contact with my friend about potential action.

Well that's more good news then isn't it Jim, that people are afraid to associate with the BNP... Perhaps they are not going to do as well as you claim?

 

[Firky]

He was a parliamentary candidate for the Socialist Alliance in 2001. Believe it or not, he didn't actually win. He got a magnificent 647 votes. That's 1.6% of the votes cast!

The winner was a Lib Dem who got 17,490 votes - 44.6%.

Shame, he's a really nice bloke. Always gave me a first or a 2:1

 

[audiotech]

I fear you have misunderstood me Mr O'Hara - I said this;

"Your para one is an accurate assesment, but that doesn't mean you should shout it at all events in all circumstances. Rather a more circumspect approach in practice with those concerned may pay more dividends."

What I mean by this is that everybody in and around all these groups thrown up e.g. RVAR, and others, is that they all can't be into Searchlight in advance. They won't be loyal to them organisationally, and so slagging off everybody who is in these groups where one,a couple, a few, do the work with Searchlight is mistaken IMHO. I fear you do, and are in danger of, throwing the baby away with the bathwater...

Makes sense.

 

[The Black Hand]

Makes sense.

I do frequently

 

[JHE]

Shame, he's a really nice bloke. Always gave me a first or a 2:1

What did you study? It wasn't politics, obviously.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Makes sense.

correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you an SWP supporter?

 

[biff curtains]

What did you study? It wasn't politics, obviously.

Have you met politics graduates these days?

 

[The Black Hand]

correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you an SWP supporter?

DO you see the position I was forwarding or not Larry. It's all very well to bluster about how bad Searchlight is, but this could end up as a counterproductive strategy that actually forces those more on the margins of these groups (not working with Searchlight themselves) more into the arms of Searchlight... because it is easy to slag off those 'leftist/anarchist headbangers who critisise everything'.

I think some sensitivity to the particularities of subjectivity is actually a MORE anarchist position Larry

 

[JimPage]

BTW What sort of 'political alternative at the ballot box do you promote'? And by the way, there is a 'third position' (and more positions) - mass class struggles which are de facto anti fascism...

Politics of the sort od the SSP in Scotland, of SP, or IWCA in England


How many candidates announced so far? And is there a web address which isn't fascist that lists them all? This is the sort of information independent anti fascists would like to see...[/QUOTE]
Lmilited information so far- but big increases in numbers of BNP candidates than last year, if they stood, or in 2003- as some councils haevent elected for 4 years (as in East Midlands of Scotland)

Here are specifics of what i have so far.....
Welsh Assembly 24 (up from 1)
Scottish Parliament 24 (up form 1)
Lincoln 12
Leicestershire 28 (up from 6)
Gateshead 17 (up from 6)
Harrogate 13 (up from 1)
Salford 6 (up from 1)
Tameside 9 (up from 5)
Bognor 6
Carlisle 6
Winsford 6

As you can see- these are just a handful of authorities - and we havent even got anywhere, their areas of strength ( Burnley,West Yorkshire, West Midlands etc )

I think you will be looking at at least 450 Local Council wards fought- as well as Scottish and Welsh assemblies- the largest far right push at local elections ever

 

[dennisr]

What did you study? It wasn't politics, obviously.

it'll be something art related methinks

 

[Kenny Vermouth]

It's coming up on the local council elections and unfortunately the BNP have decided to field a candidate in my area. I'm heading back from university a week Friday and was wondering where exactly to begin in sorting out some sort of effective opposition towards the bastards.

Anyone have any experience/comments?

It always amuses me when oafish left-wing students start bleating on about the bollocks that is the BNP.

Firstly, the BNP consists largely of social inadequates incapable maintaining any credible political position or debate.

Secondly, its fleeting success is the product of the mainstream parties' failure to address issues such as unfettered immigration or rampant Islamic extremism.

Thirdly, organising anti-BNP rallies serves only to focus attention upon the party thus feeding its hunger for media exposure. And the BNP is always better behaved than the baying mob of ageing political beardies and polytechnic students who turn up outside their meetings or rallies. That allows the BNP to claim a veneer of respectibility while subtracting credibility from the chanting berks who choose to oppose them.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

DO you see the position I was forwarding or not Larry. It's all very well to bluster about how bad Searchlight is, but this could end up as a counterproductive strategy that actually forces those more on the margins of these groups (not working with Searchlight themselves) more into the arms of Searchlight... because it is easy to slag off those 'leftist/anarchist headbangers who critisise everything'.

I think some sensitivity to the particularities of subjectivity is actually a MORE anarchist position Larry

You may well have developed amnesia concerning Searchlight's dealings with Class War--I certainly haven't.

As for "the particularities of subjectivity"--how about the fact these (Searchlight) scum have relentlessly harassed me over many years, at home, at work (taking my photo & printed it), tried to get me beaten up at least twice, and printed stories (along with my work/address details) explicitly intended to get me taken out by Loyalists. If you feel happy associating with such vermin, that's your "subjective" choice. I'll pass, thank you.

 

[The Black Hand]

You may well have developed amnesia concerning Searchlight's dealings with Class War--I certainly haven't.

As for "the particularities of subjectivity"--how about the fact these (Searchlight) scum have relentlessly harassed me over many years, at home, at work (taking my photo & printed it), tried to get me beaten up at least twice, and printed stories (along with my work/address details) explicitly intended to get me taken out by Loyalists. If you feel happy associating with such vermin, that's your "subjective" choice. I'll pass, thank you.

I am not associating with Searchlight, I never have suggested it either. What I have said, is that shouting out loud at people on the fringes of these new groups is perhaps not the best way to convince them of your case. Hardly a contraversial position.

 

[treelover]

Fuck, Kenny makes some salient points shocker!

groups campaigning against welfare cuts, housing privatisations, poverty, etc are ino, doing more than UAF etc...with its vote blue labour campaign

Thirdly, organising anti-BNP rallies serves only to focus attention upon the party thus feeding its hunger for media exposure. And the BNP is always better behaved than the baying mob of ageing political beardies and polytechnic students who turn up outside their meetings or rallies. That allows the BNP to claim a veneer of respectibility while subtracting credibility from the chanting berks who choose to oppose them.
Reply With Quote

 

[Luther Blissett]

It's coming up on the local council elections and unfortunately the BNP have decided to field a candidate in my area. I'm heading back from university a week Friday and was wondering where exactly to begin in sorting out some sort of effective opposition towards the bastards.

Anyone have any experience/comments?

you can get free webspace for your community's efforts in antifa from antifa.net, which you could use as a general resource.

you could also use a blogspot from google, (like alot of people do), which makes it easy for keeping community info and generating feedback/discussion/comments etc - the blogspot (google's blogger) can be made private for members of your action group only, acting like a free forum.

riseup.net provide a free list service for mass emails/subscription to newsletter.

hope that helps.

 

[krtek a houby]

Vote for someone else? Or are you afraid they might have convinvcing arguments other stupid people might be tricked into voting for, and they need a student to save them from themselves? Credit the rest of the population with a little intelligence.

Such blatant anti-studentism

 

[JimPage]

How many candidates announced so far? And is there a web address which isn't fascist that lists them all? This is the sort of information independent anti fascists would like to see...[/QUOTE]

Here are specifics of what i have so far.....
Welsh Assembly 24 (up from 1)
Scottish Parliament 24 (up form 1)
Lincoln 12
Leicestershire 28 (up from 6)
Gateshead 17 (up from 6)
Harrogate 13 (up from 1)
Salford 6 (up from 1)
Tameside 9 (up from 5)
Bognor 6
Carlisle 6
Winsford 6

and for the sake of Completeness, other canddiates known to me....
Blackpool 7, Barrow 1, Allerdale 2, Luton 2, Sedgefield 10, Hart 2,Northampton 4, Bristol several, Spalding, Boston, Holbeach , Turriff, Aberdeen, Kings Lynn, Boston, Aldershot, Windsor,Derwentside Newbury, Maidenhead, Reigate- 1 or 2 in each

 

[JimPage]

And is there a web address which isn't fascist that lists them all? This is the sort of information independent anti fascists would like to see...

no www address that I know of, but a valid point. The independant Antifascist boards coming from an Anarchist perspective (antifa etc) dont seem to cover the electoral fight against the BNP in a meaningful way.

people occasionally go to searchlight as there is nowhere else to turn- in the circumstances of the hibernation of AFA as an independant, reliable voice for all antifascists socialist, independant and anarchist, to turn to for information and advice

 

[The Black Hand]

no www address that I know of, but a valid point. The independant Antifascist boards coming from an Anarchist perspective (antifa etc) dont seem to cover the electoral fight against the BNP in a meaningful way.

people occasionally go to searchlight as there is nowhere else to turn- in the circumstances of the hibernation of AFA as an independant, reliable voice for all antifascists socialist, independant and anarchist, to turn to for information and advice

COllaborator

 

[Paul Marsh]

people occasionally go to searchlight as there is nowhere else to turn- in the circumstances of the hibernation of AFA as an independant, reliable voice for all antifascists socialist, independant and anarchist, to turn to for information and advice

Hibernation?

Jim I agree with a lot of what you say on this board, but waffle like "hibernation" verges on the dishonest.

If the group has dissolved, disbanded, or collapsed why not say so?

 

[Larry O'Hara]

COllaborator

I am glad you find this topic amusing--my experiences outlined above in post 48 above mean I do not. It would be hilarious, though, to see your reaction had you experienced even a tenth of the harassment by Searchlight scum that I have.

 

[JimPage]

Hibernation?

Jim I agree with a lot of what you say on this board, but waffle like "hibernation" verges on the dishonest.

If the group has dissolved, disbanded, or collapsed why not say so?

Because I am not, and never have been a leader or organiser for AFA and its my place to announce their demise or otherwise. I really cant speak for them

 

[behemoth]

Such blatant anti-studentism

Anyone who thinks students deserve their own "ism" is as out of touch with reality as anyone who thinks the BNP are a credible political party. BTW I have a degree.

 

[The Black Hand]

I am glad you find this topic amusing--my experiences outlined above in post 48 above mean I do not. It would be hilarious, though, to see your reaction had you experienced even a tenth of the harassment by Searchlight scum that I have.

Larry, I was having a laugh. There's too many po faced lefties and anarchos around who take themselves too seriously, I try to entertain myself at least as a famous situationist said. 'If I can't have a laugh I'm not coming to your revolution' didn't Emma Goldman say? OK - I've paraphrased it and changed it slightly...

You are quite right that the victimisation you have gone through is serious, and I do not know how I would have reacted. I have been harrassed by filth and journos though...