Apologies if there has been a similar therad on this recently - I had a look through the last week or so and couldn't find one though. If you support one of the big English Premier League clubs (and are English) does supporting England mean as much to you as your team does?
I've been told by Geordies in the past that they don't see themselves as English anyway. Now David Fairclough (ex-Liverpool and England player) has said the same thing goes for Liverpool. Any Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle, Spurs or Villa (& maybe Charlton & Bolton) fans out there who put country before club in the support-stakes? Or has the former super sub got it right?
Fairclough's article:-
"England's lame victory over Wales was crucial for World Cup qualification but for Liverpool fans it was greater relief seeing local lads Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher coming through the game fit and well.
I have noticed for some time now how uninterested Liverpool fans are in the England team. It seems to me that most Liverpool supporters, and I include myself in this group, are unwilling to share their football passion between the Reds and the national side.
I suppose it's not entirely surprising when you consider that that the city of Liverpool is basically a republic at the end of the M62. For as far back as I can remember, Liverpool people have always seen themselves as separate to the rest of the country. We've got our own identity, which has very little in common with the rest of the north never mind the rest of the country. In fact, you won't hear many Liverpool fans describing themselves as northerners because they see themselves as completely different to the people from Yorkshire or Newcastle.
Whether our independence is down to the fact that we're a port and we're so close to Ireland and Wales or whether it's because our city has produced the greatest ever football team and the greatest ever pop band, I'm not sure, but we've certainly never felt the need to buy into this whole English pride thing.
When it comes to football, we require our teams to be built in our own image, not a mixture of the average and the over-hyped. Our traditions are set deep and are quite unique, moulded as they have been in recent times by the likes of Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley.
The rivalries we have with our main adversaries are too strong to put away for 90 minutes of national success. When Frank Lampard scored for England against Northern Ireland back in March, I couldn't cheer because here was the same player who, however unintentionally, had robbed us of Xabi Alonso for almost three months with a broken ankle. It's the same with Wayne Rooney and the Neville brothers – how can you expect a Liverpool supporter to sing their name just because they're swapped their club shirt for that of their country?
I personally can't remember supporting England with any real enthusiasm since Roger Hunt's days. I tend to think this lack of interest stems back over the last 30 years, as the national team has been perceived as the team of the south. Whether it was the same when I went to Wembley to watch the World Cup final as a kid, I'm not sure, but certainly since then I've never been able to get as excited about England as I can Liverpool. In the 70s when Liverpool began to dominate football at home and abroad, the national press tried everything they could to keep a lid on our success through their canvassing of London-based players for the England team.
These days though, I think a lot of fans of clubs like Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal would be quite happy if their players were never selected for international duty. With the football calendar so full, international games are seen as a hindrance especially for teams with great ambitions of competing for the main trophies.
International football is not without its plus points, however as we all love the World Cup every four years. It's a festival of football for virtually a month and the chance to enjoy the world's best players but it doesn't seem to matter for us if England are there or not. More than simply cheering England on, it's about having a pint and watching the telly. England didn't make it to USA '94 and to be honest, I didn't really miss them.
But how do the players feel? Every footballer I've ever met aspires to play for their country. It's a benchmark of achievement and it is a great scene to be a part of. Personally I see my England caps as great souvenirs but they don't compare with my Liverpool medal collection.
Playing for your country is great but comes at a price as every performance is dissected and analysed by the entire country. You can leave for the game as the country's saviour and return questioning even your own ability. In the 1980s, John Barnes was the best player in the England team and yet he was subjected to so much criticism and abuse he did well to maintain his strength of character to perform to such a high level for us on his return.
I read recently how embarrassed he was to have every touch booed and jeered by the England supporters while he was playing for his country against San Marino. Really makes you proud to be an English fan, doesn't it?
More than the abuse dished out to the likes of Barnes and Steve McManaman, it is the thought of injuries that dominate fans fears when international week takes over proceedings. Jamie Redknapp, to name just one player, suffered two terrible injuries while with England and those injuries effectively robbed the player and us Liverpool fans of his best years in a Red shirt.
In recent years the choice of England managers has failed to inspire us (Ricky Tomlinson might have been a step in the right direction!) and add to that so many average players getting call ups and it's not hard to see why so many fans fail to get excited about the national team.
Obviously, Carragher and Gerrard are fully deserving of their international selections and when they play we will wish them well, but their safe return is the most important thing. England results are neither here or there compared to a win over Manchester United or Chelsea. Tomorrow night England take on Northern Ireland and Carragher and Gerrard will be a big part of Sven's selection. Win, lose or draw, as long as they both come back in one piece I'll be happy."
I've been told by Geordies in the past that they don't see themselves as English anyway. Now David Fairclough (ex-Liverpool and England player) has said the same thing goes for Liverpool. Any Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton, Newcastle, Spurs or Villa (& maybe Charlton & Bolton) fans out there who put country before club in the support-stakes? Or has the former super sub got it right?
Fairclough's article:-
"England's lame victory over Wales was crucial for World Cup qualification but for Liverpool fans it was greater relief seeing local lads Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher coming through the game fit and well.
I have noticed for some time now how uninterested Liverpool fans are in the England team. It seems to me that most Liverpool supporters, and I include myself in this group, are unwilling to share their football passion between the Reds and the national side.
I suppose it's not entirely surprising when you consider that that the city of Liverpool is basically a republic at the end of the M62. For as far back as I can remember, Liverpool people have always seen themselves as separate to the rest of the country. We've got our own identity, which has very little in common with the rest of the north never mind the rest of the country. In fact, you won't hear many Liverpool fans describing themselves as northerners because they see themselves as completely different to the people from Yorkshire or Newcastle.
Whether our independence is down to the fact that we're a port and we're so close to Ireland and Wales or whether it's because our city has produced the greatest ever football team and the greatest ever pop band, I'm not sure, but we've certainly never felt the need to buy into this whole English pride thing.
When it comes to football, we require our teams to be built in our own image, not a mixture of the average and the over-hyped. Our traditions are set deep and are quite unique, moulded as they have been in recent times by the likes of Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley.
The rivalries we have with our main adversaries are too strong to put away for 90 minutes of national success. When Frank Lampard scored for England against Northern Ireland back in March, I couldn't cheer because here was the same player who, however unintentionally, had robbed us of Xabi Alonso for almost three months with a broken ankle. It's the same with Wayne Rooney and the Neville brothers – how can you expect a Liverpool supporter to sing their name just because they're swapped their club shirt for that of their country?
I personally can't remember supporting England with any real enthusiasm since Roger Hunt's days. I tend to think this lack of interest stems back over the last 30 years, as the national team has been perceived as the team of the south. Whether it was the same when I went to Wembley to watch the World Cup final as a kid, I'm not sure, but certainly since then I've never been able to get as excited about England as I can Liverpool. In the 70s when Liverpool began to dominate football at home and abroad, the national press tried everything they could to keep a lid on our success through their canvassing of London-based players for the England team.
These days though, I think a lot of fans of clubs like Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal would be quite happy if their players were never selected for international duty. With the football calendar so full, international games are seen as a hindrance especially for teams with great ambitions of competing for the main trophies.
International football is not without its plus points, however as we all love the World Cup every four years. It's a festival of football for virtually a month and the chance to enjoy the world's best players but it doesn't seem to matter for us if England are there or not. More than simply cheering England on, it's about having a pint and watching the telly. England didn't make it to USA '94 and to be honest, I didn't really miss them.
But how do the players feel? Every footballer I've ever met aspires to play for their country. It's a benchmark of achievement and it is a great scene to be a part of. Personally I see my England caps as great souvenirs but they don't compare with my Liverpool medal collection.
Playing for your country is great but comes at a price as every performance is dissected and analysed by the entire country. You can leave for the game as the country's saviour and return questioning even your own ability. In the 1980s, John Barnes was the best player in the England team and yet he was subjected to so much criticism and abuse he did well to maintain his strength of character to perform to such a high level for us on his return.
I read recently how embarrassed he was to have every touch booed and jeered by the England supporters while he was playing for his country against San Marino. Really makes you proud to be an English fan, doesn't it?
More than the abuse dished out to the likes of Barnes and Steve McManaman, it is the thought of injuries that dominate fans fears when international week takes over proceedings. Jamie Redknapp, to name just one player, suffered two terrible injuries while with England and those injuries effectively robbed the player and us Liverpool fans of his best years in a Red shirt.
In recent years the choice of England managers has failed to inspire us (Ricky Tomlinson might have been a step in the right direction!) and add to that so many average players getting call ups and it's not hard to see why so many fans fail to get excited about the national team.
Obviously, Carragher and Gerrard are fully deserving of their international selections and when they play we will wish them well, but their safe return is the most important thing. England results are neither here or there compared to a win over Manchester United or Chelsea. Tomorrow night England take on Northern Ireland and Carragher and Gerrard will be a big part of Sven's selection. Win, lose or draw, as long as they both come back in one piece I'll be happy."
but that's just part of it. I support the teams and they're never going to play each other anyway.
