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Club photos copyright question..

Discussion in 'photography, graphics & art' started by Chi, Dec 5, 2015.

  1. Chi

    Chi New Member

    Hi folk's I need a little advice please..

    I went to a Latin dance party in public place recently and casually took a whole set of photos (around 250) of very willing individuals and dancing couples..

    The next day I edited all the images and created a watermarked online album and shared it with people at the party in case anyone wanted to order prints.

    I was then contacted by the host of the night who asked me to remove my watermark from every single photo.. add his own watermark and then send him all the images for nothing..

    Well obviously I told him he was off his rocker and declined instead offering if he wanted he could by the whole set and use them for his Facebook page and party night promotions etc.

    He was not interested in giving me asingle penny for anything and has now said that that if I use of show any of my photos anywhere it would be 'infringement of his copyright'.

    What the hell! How on earth does he have any kind of copyright over my images?

    What's the legal situation here please?

    Cheers :)
     
  2. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    I think if the event was in a public place, and or that you took the pictures standing in a public place then you have the copyright for your images.
     
    Greebo likes this.
  3. Chi

    Chi New Member

    Just found this:

    Q: Who owns the copyright in a photograph once it is taken?

    In general, when the shutter is released, the photographer who pressed the button owns the copyright. An exception is when the image falls into the “work-made-for-hire”(also known as “work for hire”) category. A work-made-for-hire relationship is created in two situations: (1) the photographer is an employee hired to take photographs for the employer—an example would be a photojournalist who is an employee of a newspaper but not a wedding or portrait photographer who is hired for one event; or (2) the photographer is hired to provide photographs for collective works or compilations and signs a written agreement that specifically states that the work is to be considered a work made for hire. Therefore, freelance photographers are subjected to work-for-hire status only when they agree to it contractually.

    I was not hired, there was no agreement or contract.. I was among few others taking photos but he's just trying to get hold of mine because they were professionally shot and edited.
     
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  4. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad RIP Greebo being kinder heckling from the back!

    paging editor - what do you think ?

    I feel that a) the promotor Chi mentions is trying to pull a fast one and should be told to take a hike.
    and b) The copyright in the images does belong to Chi
     
    laptop and Greebo like this.
  5. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Chi you took the pictures, you were not commissioned to take them: the (c) belongs to you.
     
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  6. Sirena

    Sirena Don't monkey with the buzzsaw

    The host is wrong. Ignore him. Tell him he can't use your pictures without your permission.

    (ps I work in copyright)
     
  7. keybored

    keybored

    Is a nightclub classed as a "public place" for copyright reasons though? It's private property that's open to the public. I'm not sure where the line is drawn.

    Though in either case I doubt he's entitled to just have all your photos for nothing.
     
  8. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    don't matter, doesn't affect copyright
     
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  9. Chi

    Chi New Member

    "Is a nightclub classed as a "public place" for copyright reasons though? It's private property that's open to the public. I'm not sure where the line is drawn."

    It was not a nightclub.. it's just a big pub that has a large dance floor space upstairs and people just go there to party..
     
  10. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    anyway (c) associated with creation of work not location of work
     
    laptop likes this.
  11. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Makes no odds at all. The copyright belongs to the photographer. If the club owner wants to use the photos, then he should pay for them.
     
  12. existentialist

    existentialist Kiss The Girl

    I'd tell the twat to shove it. If he bangs on about copyright again, you tell him you'll see him in court. Even if this is more than a baseless attempt to extort your photos from you, the moment he gets a sniff of what it's going to cost him to go after you in court, he'll back off so fast there will be skidmarks.
     
  13. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    :facepalm:
     
  14. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Why the :facepalm: :facepalm: that is broadly right no?
     
  15. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    no
     
  16. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    The only case where you are photographing from a public place, where you won't have copyright of the resulting images, is if you are contracted to an employer to produce images for them!
     
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  17. Chi

    Chi New Member

    Thank you all for the numerous comment's and suggestions. :);):thumbs:
     
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  18. Chi

    Chi New Member

    I don't think that's quite correct.. I was hired to shoot the America's Cup Yacht Race by one of the main sponsors Jaguar which was done from their own provided speedboat yet I still own full copyright of all the images which they
    happily acknowledged and paid me for.
     
  19. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    I would have thought that depends on the agreement you had with them.
     
  20. existentialist

    existentialist Kiss The Girl

    Because - as I think you pointed out in your second post - you hadn't explicitly signed over your copyright to your client. Which was either a smart move on your part, or a cockup on theirs :)

    I think the point about weltweit's observation is that, even if it isn't incorrect, it's irrelevant.
     
  21. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    It doesn't matter where you're standing: unless you have signed away your rights beforehand, the copyright remains yours and no one else's.
     
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  22. RoyReed

    RoyReed Must fly!

    The only possible exception to the OP owning the copyright is if the terms of entry to the club specifically state that any photographs taken on the premises are the property of the club. I know that this has happened to some rock photographers when photographing bands.
     
  23. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Such a claim would have a very tenuous grip on the law, unless the photographer had to sit down and sign a specific form giving away all rights before entry. The photographer always owns copyright unless they have specifically signed away their rights.

     
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  24. existentialist

    existentialist Kiss The Girl

    It sounds a bit like those disclaimer notices which say you enter premises/car parks "at your own risk" - essentially, it's legally unenforceable.
     
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  25. RoyReed

    RoyReed Must fly!

    In this instance I think you're right and the copyright belongs to the OP (I did say the only possible exception). But Google 'photography copyright rights grab' to see some examples of what I mean.
     
  26. existentialist

    existentialist Kiss The Girl

    Yeah, there's always going to be cunts determined to bend the (appearance of the) law to suit their own purposes.
     
    RoyReed likes this.
  27. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    It's standard to keep copyright but assign rights to the client to use the images, probably exclusive ones if it's work for hire. It would be rare to sign away all rights because that would stop you using the shots in a portfolio.
     
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  28. Chi

    Chi New Member

    "Because - as I think you pointed out in your second post - you hadn't explicitly signed over your copyright to your client. Which was either a smart move on your part, or a cockup on theirs :)"

    I did not have any arrangement with anyone.. I just walked in off the street with friends the same as everyone else there out for a good night. I just happened to have my camera with me as always
    and being the photo-holic that I am I always end up taking photos especially of dancers.. only on leaving at the end of the night did I take the organisers email saying I'll send him a link to the album later.

    That's the entirety of any communication I had with this individual.
     
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  29. existentialist

    existentialist Kiss The Girl

    Good. He can get to fuck, then.

    I hope you can find it in yourself to relish just a little the process of telling him to get to fuck. You might even like to ice the cake a little by inviting him to select a couple that you'll grant limited release to him to use...WITH your watermark :)
     
    Greebo likes this.
  30. Mr Smin

    Mr Smin Registered Luser

    As a true professional I pilot my own speedboat while taking photos at the same time. ;)
     

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