Clone Town Brixton

[quimcunx]

Something on my, partly jokey, other thread on future brixton got me thinking.

It would be nice to see the canopies brought back, to make the market nicer, whilst at the same time keeping the businesses there and the rent the same, but making it a destination where people would come from out of the area to shop for food and then also morleys and other local businesses. Of course that would never happen. to get the initial investment whoever got control would want to get rid of the business there and replace them with Starbucks etc.

What my ex who had a dim view of london, generally, liked about brixton is that it seems like a real place in it's own right rather than a tube station. It does have it's own distinct personality, good and bad and I think we'd want to keep that. Not over sanitise/gentrify it.

I'd love to see local independent business offer the same quality of service starbucks etc offer.

 

[quimcunx]

It is extremely depressing that the crossing of the ways at the heart of brixton is dominated by KFC and McD on oposite corners. I can't see how more 'chains' will improve anything at all for anyone.

Perhaps if, rather than 'more' chains, one of these (McDonalds please) was replaced by a Starbucks (any coffee place but SB) /Pizza bloody Express/ something else?

 

[Brainaddict]

I'd love to see local independent business offer the same quality of service starbucks etc offer.

Opus up acre lane serves excellent coffee with friendly service. The Lounge is not bad and does good food too. Max-Olivers has just opened next to the juice bar. All better options than starbucks, particularly in terms of the quality of coffee.

What are you looking for? Something that looks like starbucks, serves the same dilute coffee and overpriced cakes, has a similar faux-coffee-house feel but that happens to be independently owned and with a different name?

 

[intrikat]

Brainaddict for mayor

seconded

I live and shop in Brixton and the independent shops and stalls are reason why I love it, and would much rather use them than the chain stores. Do we really need the starbucks generation to tell us whether its a good place to be?

 

[kyser_soze]

I just want somewhere that can serve me a nice, frothy vanilla latté en route to the station from the No2 bus stop outside Morleys. Not too much to ask...

 

[editor]

I just want somewhere that can serve me a nice, frothy vanilla latté en route to the station from the No2 bus stop outside Morleys. Not too much to ask...

Ya! The provision of vanilla latté should be made compulsory within 10 metres of every Brixton bus stop. Well weapon!

 

[Winot]

I live and shop in Brixton and the independent shops and stalls are reason why I love it

Sure, Brixton has some great independent shops - Opus/Upstairs, Portuguese Deli, LS Mash etc. I try to shop at them most of the time and try to avoid the chains.

But do you really think that Brixton is special in this regard? Most places in London have them. And, much as I love it, I'd say that Brixton has fewer than a lot of areas that used to be comparable. Still no decent offie, no new bookshop (rip Index), still only one 'special occasion' restaurant, still no decent butcher, and still far too many empty shops.

No, we don't need Starbucks, but let's not be complacent - there's still significant room for improvement.

 

[OpalFruit]

Sure, Brixton has some great independent shops - Opus/Upstairs, Portuguese Deli, LS Mash etc. I try to shop at them most of the time and try to avoid the chains.

But do you really think that Brixton is special in this regard? Most places in London have them. And, much as I love it, I'd say that Brixton has fewer than a lot of areas that used to be comparable. Still no decent offie, no new bookshop (rip Index), still only one 'special occasion' restaurant, still no decent butcher, and still far too many empty shops.

No, we don't need Starbucks, but let's not be complacent - there's still significant room for improvement.

There have been a number of interesting independent shops on Atlantic Rd that have, sadly, not lasted the course, and more are closing down.

Elephant Feet, The baby - equipment shop (New Tomorrows??) have closed down.

People earlier on this thread have commented that Brixton doesn't need to attract more people - it is already teeming - but not, apparantly, with people who are soending enough money to keep market stalls and independent shops going. It isn't just rising rents - market traders and shops reported very scant sales last christmas. To enable shops to thrive, more shoppers with money to spend are needed. That needn't mean yuppies in luxury flats - it can mean small commercial enterprises (i.e businesses that are not shops), any businesses which employ people who use cafes for lunch, do small daily shopping before they return home, nip out for a last minute birthday present etc etc. Shops thrive in centres of employment - and it is employment that will bring genuine accessible (by which I mean accessible to all sections of the local community) economic regeneration to Brixton. Provision of jobs, provision of training, and money staying within the local retail and catering businesses.

 

[editor]

I was chatting to one of the blokes involved in the market traders association, and he seemed quite upbeat about future prospects.

I hope so because if the market shrinks on some streets any more it'll barely exist.

I might be doing a free website for them so maybe we'll learn more about what's planned.

 

[Winot]

There have been a number of interesting independent shops on Atlantic Rd that have, sadly, not lasted the course, and more are closing down.

Elephant Feet, The baby - equipment shop (New Tomorrows??) have closed down.

I lived round the corner from that parade from 1998-2006 and you're absolutely right. It's high water mark has passed. Other casualties are the Bettie Morton Gallery, Atlantic 66 and the clothes shop (can't remember what it was called).

Elephant Feet seemed to be reasonably well run but I think it targeted a pretty small market (albeit one with large feet).

Greater Tomorrows ("Little Things Means [sic] A Lot") was unfortunately pretty poor - a huge stock yet never seemed to have anything we needed and no hint that they might be able to get it (very friendly though).

I don't know anything about the economics of running a retail business but looking at the successful local examples it seems to be bloody hard work. Good luck to them.

 

[Gramsci]

I've been keeping up with this forum for some time but have only just decided to post something.

I am a researcher involved in local government (not for Lambeth Council) and am interested in getting some views on the future of Brixton high street. I've seen some comments on the appearance of Costa and other views on the market etc but I wanted to try and get a more rounded view of residents concerns as to where we are going.

Cheers

The way the LBL see it is that they have to compete with Croyden as a shopping destination.Covent Garden is seen as a successful regeneration project as well as Borough high st market.

One thing i do disagree with u is that Starbucks will bring in improved facilites(knock on effect).Excuse me but basic things like decent pavememnts and lighting should be in place anyway.

 

[Brainaddict]

The way the LBL see it is that they have to compete with Croyden as a shopping destination.Covent Garden is seen as a successful regeneration project as well as Borough high st market.

One thing i do disagree with u is that Starbucks will bring in improved facilites(knock on effect).Excuse me but basic things like decent pavememnts and lighting should be in place anyway.

It is kind of ironic that LBL should have 'ambitous' plans for a place where they can't even keep the streetlamps lit isn't it?

 

[isvicthere?]

I thought you had to have 27 estate agents offices within spitting distance before you got a starbucks

In which case, why isn't there already a starbucks?

 

[isvicthere?]

I agree. I find the idea that the presence of a Starbucks can somehow recommend a place to possible incomers baffling. The coffee's rubbish and the brand's clapped out.

Indeed. A fact that is often overlooked in the general hatred (in my view justified) of the corporate monster that is Starbucks, is that its product is shite.

 

[Gramsci]

It is kind of ironic that LBL should have 'ambitous' plans for a place where they can't even keep the streetlamps lit isn't it?

exactly .Sign if the times that u cant have these basics unless "private capital" or in LBLs language "partnerships" is pulled in.Seems to me that its "private capital" that get indirect subsidy from the state -despite business complaints of red tape obstructing them.See Northern Rock getting bailed out by the Government for an example.

by the way thought your previous post was good (post number 60)

 

[Gramsci]

I've been keeping up with this forum for some time but have only just decided to post something.

I am a researcher involved in local government (not for Lambeth Council) and am interested in getting some views on the future of Brixton high street.

For example, friends of mine are keen to see a Starbucks - I know it is usually the most hated of global brands but they believe it might create a psychological tippping point in the way we (particulary non-Brixtoners) see the area leading to more inward investment. More personally, they think other friends will be more willing to see Brixton as 'nice' place to come once recognisable brands appear on the street. Others think that will just mean 'gentrification' and will signal the end of the unique character and community feel we have now.

1) Brands have always been in the Brixton Road (see some of editors photo gallery).M&S Woolies Boots Banks. Brixton used to be a high quality shopping area years ago.A mixture of large shops and smaller retailers.

2) I however think there is some space for a few more (affordable) brands alongside M&S etc.For example H&M.There are too many clothing shops selling tat IMO.There is a lot of underused retail capacity in Brixton.Look above Sainsburys and WH Smith to see wasted space.What Brixton doesnt need is grandiose plans (see Croydon) involving large scale demolition and sale of Council property(ie previous LBL administrations idea to sell Rec).

What is needed is research looking at all the retail space in Brixton to see how it could be used better.

3) Starbucks-I wouldnt use it as Im Anti American .Next thing would be Walmart and "Saluting the Flag" like Gordon wants us to do .Still American style regeneration can be seen around Grosvenor Sq -now called "Little Baghdad" by its well heeled residents.

Plenty of independant Coffee bars in Brixton-Lounge.Kind of places that Starbucks have driven out in US.

4)One possible way to regenerate the market is to increase its quality (and price).The market in Borough High st is now successful.Its more like a Farmers market.Premium products at a price.This wouldnt be that liked here.
However there are already some shops that sell quality products.A few delis etc.Without pushing out all the affordable shops I think there is space for more quality retail in the Market.

5) The market unlike the High st shops closes early.Something to be said for allowing to stay open later.

6) I must say I sometimes get frustrated with shopping in Brixton.Im around the West End a lot.Boots and M&S in the West End are better and the range of products is bigger.So I end up buying stuff on the West End.A lot of the Brand shops in Brixton are pale reflections of what these brands can provide.
For example I had to go to John Lewis in Oxfrod st to get some blinds to fit my windows(they werent any more expensive) and for DIY I have to go to specialist shops in other parts of London and B&Q.

 

[Loupylou]

I don't know anything about the economics of running a retail business but looking at the successful local examples it seems to be bloody hard work. Good luck to them.

Yep - the govt / councils actively work against small businesses.

E.g Lower Marsh is now gone - put out of business by Southwark council.
Radio Days is closing in the New Year and I reckon all the other small businesses will be gone shortly afterwards pretty quickly. Waterloo is a major regeneration area - huge bucks to be made by the Council, consultants, architects, planners, big businesses

Cue chain stores and estate agents.
but it's all OK they've got a French Market now.....

Despite the previous post about Brixton Mkt, I reckon that'll be shut within 5 years, &/or the current stalls priced out and handed over to yuppy farmers - it's dying on its arse. Lambeth Council have wanted shot of it for years - Philistines.
I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Ol Nick]

Yep - the govt / councils actively work against small businesses.

E.g Lower Marsh is now gone - put out of business by Southwark council.
Radio Days is closing in the New Year and I reckon all the other small businesses will be gone shortly afterwards pretty quickly.

I used to like Lower Marsh market when I worked round there, though part of it's charm was that it was clearly doomed within a few years yet the old geezers kept selling the cheap bananas and Kentish cobnuts like they could somehow compete. Then the pub became the Elusive Camel. Then scooterworks turned up.

What is odd is how many (non-clothes) shopping areas are shrinking or closing down (Covent Garden/Lower Marsh/Brixton) while so many others are expanding: Borough/Marylebone/Clapham Farmers market. Though East Street market and East Dulwich seem to do OK in their very different ways.

 

[slcr]

Plenty of independant Coffee bars in Brixton-Lounge.Kind of places that Starbucks have driven out in US.

Yum yum.. just wanted to say how GOOD the coffee (latte) I had this morning from the Thai stall in the.. is it the Arcadia? (Happy Arcade? I can never remember what it's called) before Woolies was. The place with the little light-up sign which says 'Thai Food Snacks'. It was only £1.20, tasted like the best Italian coffee, perfect texture, and best of all they only sell "big" and "small" coffee. Was illy coffee I think.

 

[Cowley]

4)One possible way to regenerate the market is to increase its quality (and price).The market in Borough High st is now successful.Its more like a Farmers market.Premium products at a price.This wouldnt be that liked here.
However there are already some shops that sell quality products.A few delis etc.Without pushing out all the affordable shops I think there is space for more quality retail in the Market.

5) The market unlike the High st shops closes early.Something to be said for allowing to stay open later.

6) I must say I sometimes get frustrated with shopping in Brixton.Im around the West End a lot.Boots and M&S in the West End are better and the range of products is bigger.So I end up buying stuff on the West End.A lot of the Brand shops in Brixton are pale reflections of what these brands can provide.
For example I had to go to John Lewis in Oxfrod st to get some blinds to fit my windows(they werent any more expensive) and for DIY I have to go to specialist shops in other parts of London and B&Q.

I think the regeneration of Borough High Street/Market has gone too far the other way.

I'm not against buying quality products at premium prices now and again but Borough has gotten to the extent where you can no longer buy a loaf of bread for under 3 or 4 quid...that's not right.

Borough is now a treat for your average joe...it's basically a "Yuppie Shopping Experience" IMHO.

I agree with you on Boots & M&S in Brixton, both horribly limited. In fact the M&S in Tooting wipes the floor with our one, why?

 

[Winot]

What happened to the "upmarket" stalls in Electric Avenue on a Sunday - are they still there or did it die a death?