Clone Town Brixton
- Thread starter antjamesb
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Brainaddict said:And oddest of all: is posting on random bulletin boards what counts as research in local government now? In which case we're fucked
as a lone substitute for research it's clearly useless, but it complements other methods at least as well as, say, some drummers and a mock up of the tram and a table of questionaires outside the library, which is what TfL did a few weeks ago.
why this disgust at people NOT wanting a starbucks, nero or whatever coffe chain in brixton ?
i.e. tarquin and tara from the suburbs, are going to see the sex pistols at the academy. tarquin says where shall wee meet up tara ?
we'll meet up town spend a few quid there and then go together cos brixtons a bit ruff so ive heard....
or theres a starbucks across from brixton tube ill meet you there eh ?
oh that was a nice night out wee had all that scare mongering about brixton is a bit over hyped cos wee meet up there before those punk rocker gig...
i.e. tarquin and tara from the suburbs, are going to see the sex pistols at the academy. tarquin says where shall wee meet up tara ?
we'll meet up town spend a few quid there and then go together cos brixtons a bit ruff so ive heard....
or theres a starbucks across from brixton tube ill meet you there eh ?
oh that was a nice night out wee had all that scare mongering about brixton is a bit over hyped cos wee meet up there before those punk rocker gig...
supercity
Back, and readjusting
I have been down the pub, but please bear with me and excuse any linguistic infelicities (had to type that twice).
1. Brixton already has (banks not included) M&S, WH Smith, Subway, Body Shop, Argos, Boots, Tesco, Sainsbury, Superdrug, Currys, Halfords, McDonalds, Woolworths KFC.
As far as I can tell, the present bunch of chain stores has done little to improve the quality of life for Brixton residents, and very little to improve the local environment, by which I mean building improvements, litter control or in any way making an effort to seem like they belong here. In my book, the only ones that have any real credit here are Woolies and M&S, which have stuck in Brixton through thick and thin (although it has to be said, with minimal investment in their premises). RIP Lloyds Bank (the real one, not the plastic branch on Acre Lane), British Home Stores, Bon Marche and even Pizza Hut.
2. Before I moved here, I lived in Archway, not far from Islington Green. At the time, in 1988, Islington had junk shops, greengrocers, newsagents, butchers, an interesting market. It was a great place to live. And then, it "tipped", as you might say. I go there now, and I see tapas bars, Starbucks, Costa coffees, Thai restaurants, a flourishing economy with no soul whatsoever. In 1988, just about the only place to eat in Islington was Pizza Express. While I recognise that, for some people, the current state of affairs is a consummation devoutly to be wished, I would really hate for Brixton to go the same way, especially at a time when the circle has turned and "real" shops are making a comeback. Lambeth and Islington councils both deserve the contempt of the people who vote and pay for them, for their failure to find the right balance.
3. That said, I would like a Pizza Express in Brixton. Take over the old cinema on the Hill. Go on.
http://www.urban75.net/ubb/wink.gif
4. And if you want to turn the Railway Hotel into a Starbucks, for God's sake refurbish the building thoroughly and properly and get the clock working.
5. While I'm rambling, one more thing. In 1990 or so, I was working on a well known London listings magazine, and we decided that, it being summer, we'd do an issue for tourists: the London their guidebooks didn't tell 'em about or somesuch stuff. Our tourists, selected at random from lost-looking people wandering around Oxford Street and then offered a day out on us, were taken to Brixton Market as part of the deal. ALL of their guidebooks had told them it was a no-go area. All of our tourists were crapping themselves. At the end of the day, when they filled out their questionnaires, Brixton Market was the place they all wanted to return to and tell their friends about. It topped the poll by miles. Would that be the case if we'd sat them down on a Starbucks sofa?
1. Brixton already has (banks not included) M&S, WH Smith, Subway, Body Shop, Argos, Boots, Tesco, Sainsbury, Superdrug, Currys, Halfords, McDonalds, Woolworths KFC.
As far as I can tell, the present bunch of chain stores has done little to improve the quality of life for Brixton residents, and very little to improve the local environment, by which I mean building improvements, litter control or in any way making an effort to seem like they belong here. In my book, the only ones that have any real credit here are Woolies and M&S, which have stuck in Brixton through thick and thin (although it has to be said, with minimal investment in their premises). RIP Lloyds Bank (the real one, not the plastic branch on Acre Lane), British Home Stores, Bon Marche and even Pizza Hut.
2. Before I moved here, I lived in Archway, not far from Islington Green. At the time, in 1988, Islington had junk shops, greengrocers, newsagents, butchers, an interesting market. It was a great place to live. And then, it "tipped", as you might say. I go there now, and I see tapas bars, Starbucks, Costa coffees, Thai restaurants, a flourishing economy with no soul whatsoever. In 1988, just about the only place to eat in Islington was Pizza Express. While I recognise that, for some people, the current state of affairs is a consummation devoutly to be wished, I would really hate for Brixton to go the same way, especially at a time when the circle has turned and "real" shops are making a comeback. Lambeth and Islington councils both deserve the contempt of the people who vote and pay for them, for their failure to find the right balance.
3. That said, I would like a Pizza Express in Brixton. Take over the old cinema on the Hill. Go on.
http://www.urban75.net/ubb/wink.gif
4. And if you want to turn the Railway Hotel into a Starbucks, for God's sake refurbish the building thoroughly and properly and get the clock working.
5. While I'm rambling, one more thing. In 1990 or so, I was working on a well known London listings magazine, and we decided that, it being summer, we'd do an issue for tourists: the London their guidebooks didn't tell 'em about or somesuch stuff. Our tourists, selected at random from lost-looking people wandering around Oxford Street and then offered a day out on us, were taken to Brixton Market as part of the deal. ALL of their guidebooks had told them it was a no-go area. All of our tourists were crapping themselves. At the end of the day, when they filled out their questionnaires, Brixton Market was the place they all wanted to return to and tell their friends about. It topped the poll by miles. Would that be the case if we'd sat them down on a Starbucks sofa?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Brainaddict said:The premises of this thread baffle me on so many levels. For starters it seems to be based on the Chinese model of state capitalism where the town is a money-generating entity in competition with other towns. But I realise that the ethic (and bogus economics) of such competition has fully entered the public sector in this country too now so shouldn't be too surprised.
Another premise I find odd: the idea that the high street needs more people. Very strange thought if you've ever tried to walk down it on a Saturday. Surely what is meant here is it needs the *right kind* of people. That's the subtext I read anyway. Meanwhile what happens to the people already here?
And another odd idea: that chain shops can be a catalyst for something positive, rather than, say, the destruction of locally-run businesses. Yeah, that'd be great for Brixton. The people who own shops now could go and work in the new chain shops for £6.50 an hour. Woo!
Odd idea number four: that the opinions of people who live outside Brixton (and find it scary) should matter over the opinions of people who actually live here (who mostly like it).
Odd idea number five: an implicit assumption that Brixton exists in economic isolation from the rest of London, which if my memory of the map is correct, is actually quite close by. It's ridiculous to talk about the economic revitalisation of Brixton without considering its place in London. Maybe its a bit poor because there are poor people in London. Strange thought. Are these people poor because of lack of 'inward investment' into Brixton? We live in the middle of one of the biggest job-generation centres of the world, mostly easily accessible by public transport. I don't think people are poor because there aren't any jobs around. It's a bit more structural than that. So if your 'inward investment' isn't going to help the poor people, is it just going to drive them out?
And oddest of all: is posting on random bulletin boards what counts as research in local government now? In which case we're fucked
Well said. Agreed on all five points. Saved me typing out much the same thing myself.
There seems to be an unstated assumption by many that somewhere like Clapham or Islington is "better" than somewhere like Brixton. It might be for some people - that's fine - but for many people here the opposite is true, and that's why we choose to live here.
Mind you, I realise that having chosen to live here, I am in a slightly different category to those who have always lived here, or who for whatever reason don't have much option, who might have a different view, and I can't speak for them.
(And I actually think that posting on message boards is fine, as long as it's in conjunction with other forms of research. And this isn't really a "random" bulletin board; I think the majority of people have a genuine and mostly well-informed interest in Brixton and its affairs.)
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Yeah, I know there's nothing wrong with it as long as there's other research going on too. It's even quite nice that he/she made the effort. I was just in rant modenewbie said:
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
I also have the luxury of having chosen to live here, tis true, and I can't speak for the people who were born here and haven't had a chance to move away if they wanted to. Possibly they would have different views and with any luck there are some posting on here.teuchter said:
Why would Starbucks be the defining indicator for more chain stores?
I would have thought that invenstment (and I mean investment - not chain stores) would be attracted if the social regeneration of the area was put foirst - or at least equal - to commercial or physical regeneration. Activities for young people, meaningful training and job creation, provision of sustainable business opportunities.
At the moment fat too many businesses leave Brixton once they grow and become successful (sucessful to the pint where they can offer employment opportunities like training, promotion, pensions etc - good for local employees) . The Voice, Abel and Cole, White Stuff (?) are all recent examples, i think, of businesses that have left once they couldn't find space or facilities they needed. Crime puts businesses off coming - and in the end, a business like Starbucks presumably depends on office workers for it's day time trade.
IMO Starbucks would be the (rather depressing) indication that every other form of regeneration had taken place - not the catalyst for it.
But I agree with the poster who would like a Pizza Express in Brixton
I would have thought that invenstment (and I mean investment - not chain stores) would be attracted if the social regeneration of the area was put foirst - or at least equal - to commercial or physical regeneration. Activities for young people, meaningful training and job creation, provision of sustainable business opportunities.
At the moment fat too many businesses leave Brixton once they grow and become successful (sucessful to the pint where they can offer employment opportunities like training, promotion, pensions etc - good for local employees) . The Voice, Abel and Cole, White Stuff (?) are all recent examples, i think, of businesses that have left once they couldn't find space or facilities they needed. Crime puts businesses off coming - and in the end, a business like Starbucks presumably depends on office workers for it's day time trade.
IMO Starbucks would be the (rather depressing) indication that every other form of regeneration had taken place - not the catalyst for it.
But I agree with the poster who would like a Pizza Express in Brixton
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
No, it depends on people who want to drop in and buy coffee. This is not limited to office workers.
christonabike
Elm Park Bencher
[QUOTEBut I agree with the poster who would like a Pizza Express in Brixton][/QUOTE]
We have a daytime pizza place, and we're only a short walk away from two very good other places
These three make pizza express pizza's look and taste shite
And they are all independent
We have a daytime pizza place, and we're only a short walk away from two very good other places
These three make pizza express pizza's look and taste shite
And they are all independent
clandestino
no llevar papel
lorimer1 said:We have a daytime pizza place, and we're only a short walk away from two very good other places
These three make pizza express pizza's look and taste shite
And they are all independent
Two? There's the place on Clapham Park Road...and what's the other?
clandestino
no llevar papel
mccliche said:
Eco in the market, but it's only open during the day.
Verso, on Clapham Park Road - nice place.
And...um...
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Ferndales?
clandestino
no llevar papel
Brainaddict said:
Yes, that's probably it. Both that and Verso are in SW4, so technically Clapham.
christonabike
Elm Park Bencher
Franco's
Eco
Alba
Verso, dunno what they are like now
Ferndale, dunno about here either
Pizza Express sucks
I guess they are not that close but I cycle about so all are within five minutes from Brixton
Eco
Alba
Verso, dunno what they are like now
Ferndale, dunno about here either
Pizza Express sucks
I guess they are not that close but I cycle about so all are within five minutes from Brixton
christonabike
Elm Park Bencher
Haha, still, we don't want a fucking pizza express
Where's my pizza?
There it is!
No, that's a savoury biscuit
Where's my pizza?
There it is!
No, that's a savoury biscuit
clandestino
no llevar papel
There's a Pizza Express in Streatham, if you're hankering after a pizza that isn't quite as big as you thought it would be...! 
There's also a lovely independent pizza place that I don't know the name of, that's further south on the high street.
There's also a lovely independent pizza place that I don't know the name of, that's further south on the high street.clandestino
no llevar papel
I've only ever eaten in Eco in Clapham, and I had a terrible experience. Being served a calzone with meat in it, when I asked for a veggie one, and then having terrible stomach cramps/food poisoning later that night. I haven't been back to either branch since.
But there is a shortage of good pizzas in Brixton, available in the evening?
I agree a good independent would be better, but I still like Pizza Express!
And I still think that Starbucks, if one existed in Brixton, would depend on office-type customers.
Too expensive for many daytime market-shoppers / ordinary Brixton folk, too chain-store and unethical and untrendy for people who want to meet for business chats - like the people in Lounge, Ritzy during the day. I'm one of those, from time to time and would never meet in Starbucks rather than Eco, Lounge or Ritzy! Too inauthentic for people who want a nice coffee and bacon sandwich in Phoenix.
It is extremely depressing that the crossing of the ways at the heart of brixton is dominated by KFC and McD on oposite corners. I can't see how more 'chains' will improve anything at all for anyone.
OP sems very odd to me, tbh - but the development of Brixton is an ever-absorbing topic anyway.
I agree a good independent would be better, but I still like Pizza Express!
And I still think that Starbucks, if one existed in Brixton, would depend on office-type customers.
Too expensive for many daytime market-shoppers / ordinary Brixton folk, too chain-store and unethical and untrendy for people who want to meet for business chats - like the people in Lounge, Ritzy during the day. I'm one of those, from time to time and would never meet in Starbucks rather than Eco, Lounge or Ritzy! Too inauthentic for people who want a nice coffee and bacon sandwich in Phoenix.
It is extremely depressing that the crossing of the ways at the heart of brixton is dominated by KFC and McD on oposite corners. I can't see how more 'chains' will improve anything at all for anyone.
OP sems very odd to me, tbh - but the development of Brixton is an ever-absorbing topic anyway.
Please dont joke about fuckin Foxtons - theyve opened in newly gentrified East Dulwich - their filthy cars fill the streets and their boards pollute the hedges and fences
thetyve got some 0% commission into offer which is desigedn to drive everyone else out of buisiness - and IIRC, theyre run by some capital group and have pots of cash to invade and hang around with their loss leaders until theyve turned into a ground fuckin zero faceless wasteland
thetyve got some 0% commission into offer which is desigedn to drive everyone else out of buisiness - and IIRC, theyre run by some capital group and have pots of cash to invade and hang around with their loss leaders until theyve turned into a ground fuckin zero faceless wasteland
happyshopper
Well-Known Member
I know where I live
I know that I'm probably wasting my time but it needs to be made clear that postal districts were named many decades ago by some civil servant after what was then the location of the respective sorting offices, not the areas that they covered. That's why the SW2 sorting office is in Brixton but covers all sorts of streets that are clearly not in Brixton. The same with Clapham.
Stockwell is an interesting case, that proves the rule, because back when the postal districts were named, Stockwell was to the east of the area that we would now tend to call Stockwell. The shift in Stockwell's centre of gravity appears to have taken place because of the tube station.
ianw said:
I know that I'm probably wasting my time but it needs to be made clear that postal districts were named many decades ago by some civil servant after what was then the location of the respective sorting offices, not the areas that they covered. That's why the SW2 sorting office is in Brixton but covers all sorts of streets that are clearly not in Brixton. The same with Clapham.
Stockwell is an interesting case, that proves the rule, because back when the postal districts were named, Stockwell was to the east of the area that we would now tend to call Stockwell. The shift in Stockwell's centre of gravity appears to have taken place because of the tube station.
