Climate Camp 2008 - Will You Be Going?

[Taxamo Welf]

No. Because, like most people, i'll be at work.

1) even at the weekend?

2) holiday, people can book them, even if they have these 'job' things you speak of.

last year was a very weird atmosphere, being surrounded by (mostly) rude pigs, flood lights, and everyone* was suspious and on edge.
we got followed by a hellicoptor when we went to buy some chips.

angabout: you were surprised or upset that there was a helicopter and that the police weren't polite

did you miss the bit with the riot horses, batons and so forth?

 

[Steve Booth]

Good on whoever is organising it

Where's the poll option for "more southern centred shite"?

If it starts to get successful then the state will attack it. In this it feels a bit like a replay of the 1980s build up to the peace camps at Molesworth and Greenham Common, with the Stonehenge Festival thrown in.

Attica has a good point about it being in the South and therefore not that accesible to people north of the Watford Gap. I've got some sympathy with the poster who complained about the London centred M25 ring problem too.

On the other hand, climate change is a serious problem, and at least the organisers of this series of climate camps are trying to do something positive...

 

[Cobbles]

If it wasn't so far, I'd take the Hummer - where's the nearest airport with flights to Edinburgh?

 

[Steve Booth]

Looks like some other folks in the same vein have decided to blockade the Drax power station in Yorkshire (=7% UK generating capacity) by stopping a train, getting on top of the coal waggons and tipping coal on to the railway line. It said on the evening radio news. Interesting times, when you run this one alongside the shell petrol tanker drivers' strike.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Looks like some other folks in the same vein have decided to blockade the Drax power station in Yorkshire (=7% UK generating capacity) by stopping a train, getting on top of the coal waggons and tipping coal on to the railway line. It said on the evening radio news. Interesting times, when you run this one alongside the shell petrol tanker drivers' strike.

link

 

[The Black Hand]

link

It's all over the shop tax.

 

[The Black Hand]

If it starts to get successful then the state will attack it. In this it feels a bit like a replay of the 1980s build up to the peace camps at Molesworth and Greenham Common, with the Stonehenge Festival thrown in.

Attica has a good point about it being in the South and therefore not that accesible to people north of the Watford Gap. I've got some sympathy with the poster who complained about the London centred M25 ring problem too.

On the other hand, climate change is a serious problem, and at least the organisers of this series of climate camps are trying to do something positive...

Yes I agree, it is positive per se, but the London/Southern centred nature of it all does no favours...

 

[durruti02]

wow. Unexpected but pleasant surprise to hear you say that mate!

how so?

 

[october_lost]

I wont be in attendance. I havent got strong feelings against this, but I just think its not offering anything that will challenge climate change, go figure.

 

[durruti02]

I wont be in attendance. I havent got strong feelings against this, but I just think its not offering anything that will challenge climate change, go figure.

what else is?

 

[october_lost]

what else is?

I think George Monbiot is going to save the world

 

[Taxamo Welf]

how so?

i dunno actually,i was gonna say it was cool that someone who was so involved in community class struggle could see the good in such an activist-ist event, but then agaib you'll join any gang of nutters these days!

 

[durruti02]

I think George Monbiot is going to save the world

really! such a lovely man

 

[durruti02]

i dunno actually,i was gonna say it was cool that someone who was so involved in community class struggle could see the good in such an activist-ist event, but then agaib you'll join any gang of nutters these days!

Long Live the platform!

seriously though and i guess where i differ from the IWCA is that i think that politics still needs to be on differrent levels .. hence i am still an active shop steward, and also believe in the use of DA and activism. due to the nature of society including age, work or lack of, and the break down of community NOT everyone can and will become a community activist. however i still DO see the limits of activism, which is usually aimed at trying to persuade the authorities, in a middle class elitist kind of way, of a pov. i see activism as highlighting issues that the authorities want us to ignore .. fundamentally it needs to be about empowerment

 

[Kaka Tim]

I went last year and the most positive thing was the very strong support from local people towards the camp. Having the protest at hethrow built strong links between the activists and the local people who face having their communtiy detroyed by an unsustainable economic model.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I went last year and the most positive thing was the very strong support from local people towards the camp. Having the protest at hethrow built strong links between the activists and the local people who face having their communtiy detroyed by an unsustainable economic model.

he's right. Well said.

wish the organisers had agreed with you this year

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Long Live the platform!

seriously.

fix'd

 

[The Black Hand]

if i go which i might ( climate change is pretty fundamental to us all) and i was impressed with teh organisation last year, i will take time off work .

yes it is very important they are linked in with local people. this was very important at heathrow camp .. it made all the differrence that they were lots of locals on camp at all times .. it is the easier thing for the anti's/media to pick up on opposition or lack of support from locals to dismiss a protest like this.

Excellent thoughts.

 

[Wilf]

I went to the one last year and it was pretty good (well, at least a lot better than I thought it was going to be). Yes, one of the things that was good was the links with local people a chance to take take action with them against their enemy (BAA) - a definite struggle with a specific group of people in a specific place. And though the camp did have its hair shirt moralists it also saw some attempts to link climate change to class and class politics. In particular there was a well attended AF meeting.

Of course - to make an obvious point - its not always easy to tie the complexities of climate change into one geographical place or to 'camp' next to one particular struggle. Its about global processes and the people most suffering are often in distant locations and poor countries. There's then the issue of western activists acting 'for' other people rather than joining thier struggles.

Okay, in practice not too much of a problem. If you want to have an annual 'camp' somewhere, there's no shortage of local issues to work around and nasty firms to attack. Its equally possible to find ways of linking all this to the actual struggles that people in distant places are waging against logging, biofuels and the like. Suppose I'm just saying its messy and there's a need to think about what a class perspective on climate change actually looks like as a strategy.

 

[theCIA]

what do they hope to achieve by putting up a camp? will they be discussing methods of population control?

climate camp FFS!

 

[e19896]

Some working class folk are pissed off at the continued attack of our class, your direct action is not changeing this world for the better, it is a direct attack upon the working class.

We would love to have the time for self indulgent politics, we would love to be soap dodgers (as in the television kind) not just the chemical kind.

Would not life be grate if we could all be bisto kids?

If you to are fucked off with The Middle Class, then rumours are there is going to be a counter demo to all the bullshit and lies, indeed are not The Bisto Kids just stormtroopers and propagandist of the government?

Have you not noticed we are not in a Police State? They allow you dissent as it fit in with there program, continues the lie of climate change. No we will say it loud IT IS A LIE, if you desire real social change then stop listening to government propaganda and join underclassrising on the counter demo.

Taking back our streets, Our Earth for our future and the future of our children not for the future of the middle class is not time we make them history?

 

[Wilf]

Some working class folk are pissed off at the continued attack of our class, your direct action is not changeing this world for the better, it is a direct attack upon the working class.

We would love to have the time for self indulgent politics, we would love to be soap dodgers (as in the television kind) not just the chemical kind.

Would not life be grate if we could all be bisto kids?

If you to are fucked off with The Middle Class, then rumours are there is going to be a counter demo to all the bullshit and lies, indeed are not The Bisto Kids just stormtroopers and propagandist of the government?

Have you not noticed we are not in a Police State? They allow you dissent as it fit in with there program, continues the lie of climate change. No we will say it loud IT IS A LIE, if you desire real social change then stop listening to government propaganda and join underclassrising on the counter demo.

Taking back our streets, Our Earth for our future and the future of our children not for the future of the middle class is not time we make them history?

Suggesting that the Climate Camp is nothing more than a middle class attack on working class lives and consumption (as I think you are doing) is a pretty broad brush attack. There's an element of that in it, something that virtually everyone on this thread is opposed to - and there's a lot more that has real possibilities. Suggesting that Climatecamp are government propagandists is just odd.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Fucking hell, that's mozaz innit?

crikey.

 

[october_lost]

Some working class folk are pissed off at the continued attack of our class, your direct action is not changeing this world for the better, it is a direct attack upon the working class.

We would love to have the time for self indulgent politics, we would love to be soap dodgers (as in the television kind) not just the chemical kind.

Would not life be grate if we could all be bisto kids?

If you to are fucked off with The Middle Class, then rumours are there is going to be a counter demo to all the bullshit and lies, indeed are not The Bisto Kids just stormtroopers and propagandist of the government?

Have you not noticed we are not in a Police State? They allow you dissent as it fit in with there program, continues the lie of climate change. No we will say it loud IT IS A LIE, if you desire real social change then stop listening to government propaganda and join underclassrising on the counter demo.

Taking back our streets, Our Earth for our future and the future of our children not for the future of the middle class is not time we make them history?

I get where your coming from and I share your disdain for the m/c but I think this rant is aimed at the wrong event, we do need explicitly w/c campaigns though.

 

[durruti02]

Some working class folk are pissed off at the continued attack of our class, your direct action is not changeing this world for the better, it is a direct attack upon the working class.

We would love to have the time for self indulgent politics, we would love to be soap dodgers (as in the television kind) not just the chemical kind.

Would not life be grate if we could all be bisto kids?

If you to are fucked off with The Middle Class, then rumours are there is going to be a counter demo to all the bullshit and lies, indeed are not The Bisto Kids just stormtroopers and propagandist of the government?

Have you not noticed we are not in a Police State? They allow you dissent as it fit in with there program, continues the lie of climate change. No we will say it loud IT IS A LIE, if you desire real social change then stop listening to government propaganda and join underclassrising on the counter demo.

Taking back our streets, Our Earth for our future and the future of our children not for the future of the middle class is not time we make them history?

sorry but what a lot of shit .. so the environment is not a w/c issue?? LOL the w/c always get to live in the most dirty polluted areas .. and with climate change that will get worse .. though i think you are saying you do not even accept climate change?? really?? whatever

aah so you are saying that ( underclassrising ) .. so you support Nigel Lawsons reactionary conservative apologist shit .. incredible how you mesh that with being pro w/c LOL .. why not put up a thread on that article and we can er discuss it and why you support it

 

[durruti02]

interestingly i was chatting to a life long DA'er the w/c and he said he will NOT be going CC cos of the middle class who run it .. i do not know enough of the internal politics of CC and he undoubtedly would .. not sure where that leaves me .. i always ASSUMED it was kinda middle class!!

 

[Wilf]

interestingly i was chatting to a life long DA'er the w/c and he said he will NOT be going CC cos of the middle class who run it .. i do not know enough of the internal politics of CC and he undoubtedly would .. not sure where that leaves me .. i always ASSUMED it was kinda middle class!!

Plane Stupid are (well, sound) very middle class.

Climate Camp - lot of them seem to be the same people from Dissent who did the 2005 g8 camp. Mixture of long term anarchos, a bit 'scenish' etc. No more, no worse than anything anarchoish (perhaps a little bit more middle class). At the same time its not a self pronounced anarcho or working class grouping, so its gonna have the middle classes in there.

To me its not really a question of where CC camps, more a case of what it does inbetween the annual camps. Whether it makes real links with communities, unions, actual people. Bits and pieces, some positve signs, but no sign its really happening as far as i can see - but certainly not so bad as to warrant the crude attacks that are being made on it.

 

[e19896]

Shall we begin then?

The premise of the lie that is climate change is that we have come to this stage due to the over consumption and lifestyle, and often we are told it is the lifestyle of the working class that is put as the problem.

The premise of the argument from N Lawson stands as a sound counter argument, and when people disagree it is the past and social history that is brought into play, i feel to undermine the person counter disagreement, this is been done here regards my disagreement on climate change..

Ill make it clear CLIMATE CHANGE IS A LIE, it forms part of the new world order to pass the blaim onto the poor for the over consumption of The Middle Class, to make the working class feel guilty for the lifestyle choices they make.

Of course this earth is suffering, that is due to over population, the fact we have lost contact with the earth, perhaps if we began to

'Guerrilla' farming is another option, especially if you resent renting land or vacant allotments are hard to come by in your area. Apply a little vision to the land around you, railway embankments, back gardens, golf courses, car parks, overgrown bits of land at your work-place and so on. Then give a little thought to clandestine cultivations- the only limits are those of your imagination; herbs that thrive on poor soils could be grown amongst the thistles, rose-bay willow herb and buddlea on 'desolate' bomb-sites; a little known hole in a fence remembered from childhood explorations could give access to your local rich bastard's grounds-sew your seeds here amongst the undergrowth or venture further and indulge in some scrumping from his orchard Graham Burnett

Now this is hard one agreed, but how about some population control, the outright banning of cars? The removell of lorys on the roads back to the canals that so many working class people lost the life in building.

How about instead of getting our basic life needs from abroad, we began to manufacture what we need and look towards more green solutions in that manufacture, go local with that manufacture this then create local jobs.

Instead of cars we re open the railways to there full extent, such as the wood head rail line closed under thatcher, left to go derelict.

You see it was not just a rant..

 

[steve0223]

yes it was a rant. Blaming the state of the planets ecology on overpopulation is a fundamental mistake and is a larger attack on the global working class than anything else. Overpopulation is a problem for sure, but to position this as one of the main causes of this crises really means that you then need to take responsibility for the 'solutions'. Do you have any idea how population demographics works? have a look at Iain Boals article 'Feast and Famine' on how overpopulation has historically been used against w/class

 

[Wilf]

Shall we begin then?

The premise of the lie that is climate change is that we have come to this stage due to the over consumption and lifestyle, and often we are told it is the lifestyle of the working class that is put as the problem.

The premise of the argument from N Lawson stands as a sound counter argument, and when people disagree it is the past and social history that is brought into play, i feel to undermine the person counter disagreement, this is been done here regards my disagreement on climate change..

Ill make it clear CLIMATE CHANGE IS A LIE, it forms part of the new world order to pass the blaim onto the poor for the over consumption of The Middle Class, to make the working class feel guilty for the lifestyle choices they make.

Of course this earth is suffering, that is due to over population, the fact we have lost contact with the earth, perhaps if we began to



Now this is hard one agreed, but how about some population control, the outright banning of cars? The removell of lorys on the roads back to the canals that so many working class people lost the life in building.

How about instead of getting our basic life needs from abroad, we began to manufacture what we need and look towards more green solutions in that manufacture, go local with that manufacture this then create local jobs.

Instead of cars we re open the railways to there full extent, such as the wood head rail line closed under thatcher, left to go derelict.

You see it was not just a rant..

Saying its all down to population growth doesn't add up, even matematically. Okay, of course, 6 billion will consume more stuff than 3 bilion - clearly. However its also about how much those people consume and the kind of systems that lead to higher levels of societal consumption. Anyway, population growth doesn't happen in a vacuum.

Your claim that Climate Change is a lie, just seems odd. It puts you in the camp of the oil companies and their tame academics - its an ideological line used to justify the continuation of unregulated free markets and overproduction. I'll admit that the opposite argument - that climate change is real and happens because of human activity - can be used by those who want to greenwash their products and sell us different stuff (but keep selling). However its not an anti-working class message at all. For every middle class moralist who says its happening because the working classes can now afford Easyjet, there's many more recognising that the rich have always consumed more and still do so. That was definitely the case at last year's climate camp. The argument that Climate Change is real might well be taken up by all kinds of loons and liberals, but is essentially a left/radical argument - and in many guises merges into an anti-capitalist critique. The rich make their money out of capitalism as a mode of production - and are also priveliged as consumers.