Class War to split again

[The Black Hand]

Communique received from the Libertarian Fox Affinity Group:

At this moment of crisis in Class War, we of the LFAG wish to express our unconditional support for Comrade Attica. He has been unflinching in his support for our welfare and, like us, he thinks it's good to nick stuff.​

Comrade, I salute your style....

 

[JHE]

But that's just it JHE - THERE ARE NONE. Unconstitutionally, authoritarianly (indeed Leninistly/Stalinistly), expediently etc. 'they' are trying it on!! It has nothing to do with an actual offence/crime/misdemeanor, and EVERYTHING to do with their political agenda. I am a libertarian in a wide sense, and their authoritarian traits dominate their personalities and approach to politics far more... In short, it is part of a wider battle/ class struggle for the soul of Class War, and as such, one I will NOT shy away from...

Who are 'they'? The 'dark' side

OK, what are the political differences? Do they not like foxes or something?

 

[tbaldwin]

But that's just it JHE - THERE ARE NONE. Unconstitutionally, authoritarianly (indeed Leninistly/Stalinistly), expediently etc. 'they' are trying it on!! It has nothing to do with an actual offence/crime/misdemeanor, and EVERYTHING to do with their political agenda. I am a libertarian in a wide sense, and their authoritarian traits dominate their personalities and approach to politics far more... In short, it is part of a wider battle/ class struggle for the soul of Class War, and as such, one I will NOT shy away from...

Who are 'they'? The 'dark' side

How come all the Libertarians are always arguing and telling people what to think?

 

[The Black Hand]

OK, what are the political differences? Do they not like foxes or something?

If I was to say what are the differences, it boils down to political priorities. One is obsessed with anti fascism and sees conspiracies where they do not exist, whereas I do not prioritise anti fascism. At this point my thoughts are on setting up a Durham GMB support group for the local Asda supply depot, and will pursue this in the next few days. I am also more for street based mass class struggle;
ie. actions/pickets/confrontations/marches/manifestations
(call them what you will), whereas the 'dark side' are less in favour of them... But really, the political differences are not that great, its just a question of style, and they don't appear to like mine. But I am with Oscar Wilde, "Whats worse than being talked about, is not being talked about".

 

[The Black Hand]

How come all the Libertarians are always arguing and telling people what to think?

Libertarians do not tell people what to think, if they do that they are NOT libertarians. As for arguing, at this point in history it is crucial that anarcho marxists clarify (in detail - there is NO shortcut) the constitutive political project, as opposed to the previous Marxist models eg. Lenin, and his bastard deriviations (such as RA No - don't take the bait, I am not interested in discussing with you) that prioritised representational politics...

 

[The Black Hand]

I believe that the accusations go something like this......nobody feels able to work with him.

Personally I wouldn't want to stay around myself but there you go...

I work with who I want to work with, inside AND outside of Class War, already...

We'll see how this pans out, but politically I think the 'dark side' have made a major mistake with promoting this motion in Class War internally, and then promoting it externally on these boards - of course I have been busy putting forward better politics

 

[BAKU9]

I work with who I want to work with, inside AND outside of Class War, already...

We'll see how this pans out, but politically I think the 'dark side' have made a major mistake with promoting this motion in Class War internally, and then promoting it externally on these boards - of course I have been busy putting forward better politics

I now really do not have any problem in the distinct possibility that you are one spud short of a famine matey boy. Goodluck with your struggle with the darkside...perhaps you should get to bed earlier you'll need all your energy.

 

[Dougal]

I blame Ian Bone...

The seeds of all this nonsense were planted in the eighties at the "stitch up" conference in Manchester where the concept of having a federation and formal membership got pushed through whilst I was distracted jemmying open the space invaders machine in the bar and spending all the cash on tequilla sunrises. Before that day there was no membership so trev would have been safe in the years to come.

 

[BAKU9]

I work with who I want to work with, inside AND outside of Class War, already...

We'll see how this pans out, but politically I think the 'dark side' have made a major mistake with promoting this motion in Class War internally, and then promoting it externally on these boards - of course I have been busy putting forward better politics

I must also congratulate you on your political maneuvering. You are wasted in Class War. Perhaps a career as a MP?

 

[Paul Marsh]

Adding here is a friendly contribution I received via PM (I will credit the AUTHOR if he wants it - I will check in the morning) - I reproduce it here so you can see that there is more to 'internal' politics than first meets the eye.

"I think you need to put in some background explanation here, so we can understand what you are talking about. It's not clear whether you mean: (i) one or two people leaving Class War, and joining another existing anarchist/revolutionary group or (ii) Creating two separate groupings or worse still, and more confusingly two separate Class Wars (like the short-lived Class War Organisation (CWO)).

Whilst there is no point people staying with a group if they are deeply unhappy with its aims, methods, structure and personel, splits of the second type rarely if ever do any not good. They are often over personal animosity rather than substantive political differences, dilute resources -- financial, personal and emotional -- and lead to confusion (the CWO example again).

Of course new groupings can work in alliance with older ones, but that requires an non-acriminous departure. Radical groupings have always been at the most effective when working collegially with others. J18 being a prime example, they are least effective when they try to dominate or go-it-alone. So if you do split, you'll need to work out how will you work with those you have left behind, who else will you be struggling alongside. Are you going to create yet another separate organisation or join an existing grouping whose politics are similar to yours?

... it seems likely that a parting of the ways would be most beneficial for all concerned. I hope you are thinking of how you can best meet your radical desires beyond CW without interfering with the efforts of your former comrades and friends."

This person appears to be recommending you leave with dignity, not burning your bridges.

I think that is the view of the overwhelming majority of CW members. It is also the best option for all concerned.

I really hope you can see that.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

If any of these factions are looking for a venue for their next conference may I suggest....

 

[Udo Erasmus]

I'm completely mystified about what this split is about, and most of the posts on this thread make no-sense to me.

Class War in its heyday did have the potential of becoming a successful organisation taking the best from anarchist and marxist traditions - but now it seems to be a tiny group.

 

[kyser_soze]

i can't believe that attica thinks it wise to post up a load of internal dirty washing from class war. if he was serious about revolution and that, then surely this would all be better done behind closed doors, or doors pulled slightly closed, than in front of senior scotland yard figures, for which this site is famous.

Oh I don't know - I suppose it shows a genuine committment to transparency and open doors innit? Surely part of what CW stands (or sits? Hovers? Crouches?) for...

 

[Ave N. Ham]

Shouldn't the factions ask that Ian Bone bloke to decide. Class War seem to look on him as a sort of father figure.

But really would anyone notice?

 

[Paul Marsh]

I'm completely mystified about what this split is about, and most of the posts on this thread make no-sense to me.

For the tenth time, there is no split.

One member faces a vote of no confidence.

It really is that simple.

 

[kyser_soze]

It's a witch hunt!! It's a purge!! It's Stalin all over again!!

 

[The Black Hand]

This person appears to be recommending you leave with dignity, not burning your bridges.

I think that is the view of the overwhelming majority of CW members. It is also the best option for all concerned.

I really hope you can see that.

Oh how holy you are (NOT) you liar. Fuck off with your platitudes - I stopped listening to you long ago.

You know, things like morals/ethics/'dignity' whatever the fuck that is?, are middle class concerns outside of class struggle (which you plainly are).

In case you are wondering i create my own morals/ethics/dignity, and its two faced (Janus faced) of you to try to lecture me on that...

You might just get a surprise or two along the way too

 

[The Black Hand]

For the tenth time, there is no split.

One member faces a vote of no confidence.

It really is that simple.

Just a point - you are LYING yet again, you know as well as I do that it is being portrayed BY YOUR SIDE on the internal boards as being the ONLY THING that will PREVENT A split - you know by the bullshitter from Norwich

Another point - the bullshitter from Norwich bans me from the Internal CW boards and then says I am a loose cannon for "creating noise" in the outside world on the only boards I can defend myself on!!

IS there a better definition of a wanker than him??

 

[blamblam]

 

[The Black Hand]

You can fuck off too wanker

(with your prejeudicial postings...)

I am with Bakunin - the urge to destroy is a creative urge

'There have always been slums and people in the gutter - but we the workers can build better organisations' - didn't Durutti say something like that???

 

[dennisr]

I am with Bakunin - the urge to destroy is a creative urge

Wasn't he a bit of a fantasist as well?

 

[Udo Erasmus]

For the tenth time, there is no split.

One member faces a vote of no confidence.

It really is that simple.

Is he an important member? He certainly doesn't seem to be communicating to non-Class War members what exactly is the point of disagreement with you, other than apparently he thinks you are the Norwich bullshitter. Nice town, Norwich, I used to live in East Anglia.

IT'S MY PARTY AND I'LL CRY IF I WANT TO, CRY IF I WANT TO, CRY IF I WANT TO: YOU WOULD CRY TOO IF IT HAPPENED TO YOU

 

[kyser_soze]

Wasn't he a bit of a fantasist as well?

Dilletante aristo revolutionary who, from what I remember, spent a large chunk of his revolutionary years sitting in jails in Europe for sedition waiting for his rich mates or the internationals to bail him out.

Nothing about foxes tho...

 

[The Black Hand]

No apologies, ever

You know I've been offline for a while...

SInce then I've had a rude fuck in a slightly risky location which was pleasing to all concerned, I've surveyed 'my world', and I am feeling like i is 'the man' at the minute and youse are all 'pale imitations' who spend too much time online

(bar 1 or 2, or perhaps 3 notable exceptions, and apologies to some who I don't know at all)

I think my choices are fine, I do make mistakes (cos nobody is perfect, and only those who DO NOTHING make no mistakes), but I have not here... It might be contraversial, but those with 'enlightenment' understand

 

[Sean]

You know I've been offline for a while...

SInce then I've had a rude fuck in a slightly risky location which was pleasing to all concerned, I've surveyed 'my world', and I am feeling like i is 'the man' at the minute and youse are all 'pale imitations' who spend too much time online

Listen Trev, people want to hear about your dogging activities as much as they want to hear your reviews of great political works of our time...not much. Now why don't you get off the internet, take your medication and have a wank - that would no doubt be more "pleasing to all concerned".

 

[linerider]

Listen Trev, people want to hear about your dogging activities as much as they want to hear your reviews of great political works of our time...not much. Now why don't you get off the internet, take your medication and have a wank - that would no doubt be more "pleasing to all concerned".

 

[Luther Blissett]

I'm completely mystified about what this split is about, and most of the posts on this thread make no-sense to me.

Class War in its heyday did have the potential of becoming a successful organisation taking the best from anarchist and marxist traditions - but now it seems to be a tiny group.

Some would get that impression from reading this thread, but they'd be factually incorrect. I'd read this: [UK] "Class War Over !":Old Communist wonders what to do next

I hadn't heard anything about a 'split', 'til I saw this topic.

I had been operating on the premise that the Middle Classes are joining the Class Struggle, and thought membership was actually increasing, rather than decreasing.

 

[The Black Hand]

Listen Trev, people want to hear about your dogging activities as much as they want to hear your reviews of great political works of our time...not much. Now why don't you get off the internet, take your medication and have a wank - that would no doubt be more "pleasing to all concerned".

You are projecting your habits onto me - no thanks twat, and you can fuck off too.

 

[Hanoipete]

Anarchism is good. Its democracy.

But this kind of deluded self importance is amazing. Why does anarchism equate with this kind of crazy behaviour? Why do the CNT behave like regular people - and therefore connect somewhat better with the public despite very limited resources - while this streak of lifestyle anarchism, nicking stuff and going on about foxes, predominates in the UK.

It is very frustrating for people who have genuine anarchist leanings to see such behaviour. I mean, would George Galloway - were he to be threatened with being ousted - write it all up on someone else's public bulletin board. With swearing, capital letters and all the rest?

Were you people to be serious, then it would be seriously disillusioning.

The next time somone on U75 asks `why doesnt anarchism appeal to the general public` maybe one could point them to this thread.

Get a haircut, some decent clothes and apply Chomsky to the real world - like the CNT. Take yourself seriously, which you evidently do not by your childishness.

It's stuff like this that makes me think of the people organising in Haiti or the Niger Delta or Chad or other equally dangerous and awful places to see how immature and 1st world this all is. Lifestyling and nothing more.

Class War? We are all working class now, even well paid members of it...

<massive sigh>

 

[LLETSA]

You can fuck off too wanker

(with your prejeudicial postings...)

I am with Bakunin - the urge to destroy is a creative urge

'There have always been slums and people in the gutter - but we the workers can build better organisations' - didn't Durutti say something like that???

'We the workers?' I thought you were some kind of (self-aggrandising) PhD student.