class war and religion

[darren redparty]

the heroic fuckwit said

You/CWF/LCW haven't said 'all religion is shit' and we can't find any historic or current criticism of all the monotheistic religions on your website

from the islamophobe statement in june that fabian got so excited about at the time

We are disappointed that Class War should be omitted from this list. As real revolutionaries we are, of course, opposed to all and any attempt to cheat and hoodwink our class with superstitious lies about magic and miracles.


Thus we are proud to be Islamophobic, just as we are proud to be ‘Christianophic’, ‘Judeophobic’, ‘Hindoophobic’, ‘Buddhaphobic’, and whatever other mumbo- jumbo bullshit that the black crows of the Priestocracy try to foist upon us.

clear enough for you or would you like it lit up?

 

[ViolentPanda]

You edited that from 'voodoo' to 'anti-black magic' three quarters of an hour after you posted. Did you decide 'voodoo' was a Ray Cyst slur?

Don't worry, you PC arse. It's halal to denigrate pagan nonsense.

I see you've been doing a bit of necromancy yourself, invoking the spirit of Richard Littlejohn and allowing it to possess what passes for your mind.

"Ah, but Richard Littlejohn isn't dead" I hear you say.

His body may be alive, but his soul departed from it long ago.

But even you can't believe that Class War's burning of effigies was an attempt at voodoo of any sort, can you?

Who knows what goes on in their heads?

After all, any organisation calling themselves "Class War" who have or have had former public schoolboys in their ranks, surely wouldn't scruple at laying out a few veve of the Loa, building a bonfire, surreptitiously sacrificing a black cock and a white hen (possibly hidden inside those effigies?) and asking their deities to allow them to be "contravershal" for another year?

 

[smokedout]

We are disappointed that Class War should be omitted from this list.

this would be the list on the islamaphobiawatch website that in actual fact turned out not to exist would it?

islamaphobiawatch have never published a list of islamaphobes

aint sticking up for the site, got nothing to do with them, just wonder why you would lie if you didnt have another agenda

 

[118118]

if you can back up the "all muslims are cunts" quote ( or anything even remotely simular) then do so or shut the fuCk uP!

Maybe you are right, some of this thread was a bit rabid though

I don't think people who belive in sky pixies should have any rights as personally think there idiots and need careing for (maybe out of context )

They shouldn't believe in fucking fairy stories if they don't wanna be laughed at.

allowing people to propagate their filth into the minds of children

check out the predicament of non-Muslims in the Mohammedan world

Whilst smokedout is conducting this research, perhaps he could also look out for the status of socialist or anarchist groups in the Muslim world.
Graveyards and prisons may be a place to start.............

Meh. Maybe its just how it came across cos I just don't understand the dynamic of religion. I don't really acre tbh.

 

[TopCat]

Maybe you are right, some of this thread was a bit rabid though

Meh. Maybe its just how it came across cos I just don't understand the dynamic of religion. I don't really acre tbh.

It's not maybe you were right, you know he was, no one said anything of the sort apart from you ascribing this bullshit to class war.

how about apologise?

 

[118118]

It's not maybe you were right, you know he was, no one said anything of the sort apart from you ascribing this bullshit to class war.

how about apologise?

No, thats over the top.

To say that w/c Muslims "propagate filth" could be conceived as being more than a statement against their religous ideas but also their what they do with them.

Of course c/w thinks that w/c Muslims are absolved of all responsibility (and hence is it Islam that is the cunt not w/c Muslims) for everything any w/c Muslim thinks is an important part of their religion? Hmmm.

I do not know that he's right.

 

[TopCat]

Could you have another go at explaining your view please?

 

[118118]

I mean, c/w I assume thinks that some w/c muslims are bastards in the way they practice their religion. But not all.

I mean in some ways of being a w/c muslim the blame is also on the muslim. And its not clear that in propagating your filth you are not to blame and that only Islam is.

Its ambiguous whether c/w does not condemn or blame w/c muslims for propagating their belief, especially considering the rabid language they use. So that I feel that its ok to question what they are getting at, maybe.

Does c/w think that w/c Muslims are bastards for spreading their religous beliefs? Because if they do, thats a lot of w/c Muslims who are bastards. I guess not, but how do I knoiw that this isn't where they are heading. Or better, how do I know that someone isn't going to say that this is the case. Lol.

 

[smokedout]

its a completely specious argument, the idea that you can say that islam is evil/immoral/inhuman/savage .. whatever, but hey muslims are okay

what youre doing is saying that hey muslims live a life and promote an idea that is savage and inhumane, but its not them thats the problem, they're too stupid to realise that they are actually being deceived by this evil, esoteric force that is islam

to use the rhetoric class war have taken to using aginst islam is without doubt prejudiced and ignorant of islam, and therefore prejudiced to those who follow that religion

what they are essentially saying is that we're better than you, we're more enlightened than you and lets face it more morally pure than you

which amusingly is exactly the doctrine most fundamentalist religions would promote

where that line of thinking leads is too frightening to contemplate

to use a byline as paul marsh does such as neither islam or capital further belies this prejudice, its comparing a religious/philiosophical belief with an economic system

islam like all religions is benign, its a book, in many ways islam is the most anarchist of religions, it has no voice of god on earth, no pope, no hierarchy

of course like all religion islam has been corrupted and adopted for political ideals, but to condemn all muslims as being part of those ideals is akin to blaming all secularists for the holocaust or the tyranny of stalin

i grew up in bradford and often heard comments about how black guys and indians were ok, but muslims were cunts ... people generally meant pakistanis and bangladeshies whose lifestyle was not as westernised as the second/third generation black and indian communities

i can only see this posturing from class war and others as a kind of juvenile justification for inherently (and maybe even almost sub-conscious) racist motivations, wrapped in in some ideological stereotyped bullshit, almost certainly drawn entirely from arguments put forward by the far right and co-opted by some on the left to justify the (in fairness pretty commen) fear of difference

the proof of this lies in the fact that class war do not apply their current angst towards rastafarianism, quite happily promoting reggae gigs without prejudice or criticism, they have even admitted to having a wiccan member

these are religions which sit comfortably within there own cultural references, being largely framed in western judeo/christain values, islam does not and it seems that to justify the inherent racist impulses which afflict many ... rooted as they are in a population beaten into submission and fear

anarchism should rise above such state encouraged illusions, no gods no masters fine, but the gods have always been the servents of the masters in the capitalist economy, another tool to beat us with

it doesnt have to be like that, we are attempting to facilitate political and economic change, what book people choose to draw their personal morality and conduct from is not our concern unless it results in oppression and a barrier to our political and economic goals

whilst religion can be used in exactly that way, it can also be used in precisely the opposite way, the civil rights movement is the US is a testament to the way religion can be used as an empowering and even radicalising force

i dont find it empowering, i find it a load of bollocks, however not being god myself i dont have all the answers and im loath to judge the belief structure someone chooses to follow if it doesn,t impinge on mine or anyone elses right to live freely and well

having spent my life in bradford/hackney/haringey and brixton i cant honestly say that the majoritiy of the religious working class have never acted in a way that has genuinely had an oppresive or even unpleasant impact on my life ...

the state on the other hand ... well why not target your derision and anger towards the real oppressors rather than a bunch of sky pixies and those who follow them

 

[118118]

its a completely specious argument, the idea that you can say that islam is evil/immoral/inhuman/savage .. whatever, but hey muslims are okay

what youre doing is saying that hey muslims live a life and promote an idea that is savage and inhumane, but its not them thats the problem, they're too stupid to realise that they are actually being deceived by this evil, esoteric force that is islam

to use the rhetoric class war have taken to using aginst islam is without doubt prejudiced and ignorant of islam, and therefore prejudiced to those who follow that religion

what they are essentially saying is that we're better than you, we're more enlightened than you and lets face it more morally pure than you

I think thsi is wrong. I don't think they are too stupid to realize, anymore than I think than anyone who disagrees with me on any topic is too stupid to agree with me. I don't think that I am more enlightnened than anyone for any beliief I hold, I would guess. But, maybe more practical lol. As to whether somone who is ignornat of something can criticise it without being prejudiced to people who agree with it, I dunno, I don't think it would be necessary for me to the the Bible in order to tell people that I do not think that Jesus was the son of God.

having spent my life in bradford/hackney/haringey and brixton i cant honestly say that the majoritiy of the religious working class have never acted in a way that has genuinely had an oppresive or even unpleasant impact on my life ...

Do you mean can here? I would have thought that the point is that as long as someone still believes in God they are less likely to target the state. I have never read the reasoning behind this, but it seems fairly plausible - I thought it was quite a fundamental part of Marxism.

 

[118118]

TopCat: What I'm saying is that it remains unclear where c/w draw the line from the posts that I quoted. There is nothing that says explicitly that muslims=bastards, but there is nothing there that says otherwise either, and alot there that says that they do cuntish things. Normal thoiught says, do cuntish things, you are a cunt. Fuck knows, they all just seemed so het up about it all.

If someone says that muslims do filthy things, but are not filth, then I will apologise for what I said. I don't think that its very important though.

I don't have a very good argumnet

 

[scumbalina]

TopCat: What I'm saying is that it remains unclear where c/w draw the line from the posts that I quoted. There is nothing that says explicitly that muslims=bastards, but there is nothing there that says otherwise either, and alot there that says that they do cuntish things. Normal thoiught says, do cuntish things, you are a cunt. Fuck knows, they all just seemed so het up about it all.

If someone says that muslims do filthy things, but are not filth, then I will apologise for what I said. I don't think that its very important though.

I don't have a very good argumnet

I'm confused, do you think that class war have a problem with muslims? As far as I understand it, they don't have any problem at all with people of faith, xians, muslims, buddhists etc, but organized religion, as I assume the majority of anarchists do. I can't think of anything that's ever made it appear otherwise

 

[tbaldwin]

its a completely specious argument, the idea that you can say that islam is evil/immoral/inhuman/savage .. whatever, but hey muslims are okay

what youre doing is saying that hey muslims live a life and promote an idea that is savage and inhumane, but its not them thats the problem, they're too stupid to realise that they are actually being deceived by this evil, esoteric force that is islam

to use the rhetoric class war have taken to using aginst islam is without doubt prejudiced and ignorant of islam, and therefore prejudiced to those who follow that religion

what they are essentially saying is that we're better than you, we're more enlightened than you and lets face it more morally pure than you

I think that some influences are worse and stronger than others...I think that its quite possible to be anti racism without being anti racist and anti religion without hating all the people taken in by the nonsense.

 

[smokedout]

but its not about how you think or feel it's about what you do and the impact those actions have on others

id sincerely hope that no members of class war 'hate' muslims, but it cant be denied that by carrying out such a provocative act as they did then that is something that will have an (at the very least) upsetting impact on any muslims who may have witnessed it

so who is the target, organised islam (almost an oxymoron in itself) or the local muslim community of hackney

i very much doubt allah gave a shit

 

[Mallard]

but its not about how you think or feel it's about what you do and the impact those actions have on others

id sincerely hope that no members of class war 'hate' muslims, but it cant be denied that by carrying out such a provocative act as they did then that is something that will have an (at the very least) upsetting impact on any muslims who may have witnessed it

so who is the target, organised islam (almost an oxymoron in itself) or the local muslim community of hackney

i very much doubt allah gave a shit

I don't have a great deal of time for the Tarquins and 'working clarse' warriors of Class War myself but respect their right to burn the effigies. They burnt Christ and Mohammed and even singed their dreadlocks. I can't see the problem myself. It seems to have annoyed the pseudo left though (which is probably what they were after).

 

[118118]

I'm confused, do you think that class war have a problem with muslims? As far as I understand it, they don't have any problem at all with people of faith, xians, muslims, buddhists etc, but organized religion, as I assume the majority of anarchists do. I can't think of anything that's ever made it appear otherwise

Look, I'm not that interested in this "bun fight" but, what do you mean - they have a problem with those who practice organized religion? No of course not - I would guess that c/w would say that even though they propagate filth they are not filth. But normally someone who does filthy things is a bastard, AND c/w would say that not all religous pratice can be excused. So hopefully you can see that when c/w start accusing muslims of doing filthy things they must be aware of when this extends to muslims being flith. I guess not, and they just let the feeling take them. Like I say, I don't really care, its just an opinion.

 

[TopCat]

but its not about how you think or feel it's about what you do and the impact those actions have on others

id sincerely hope that no members of class war 'hate' muslims, but it cant be denied that by carrying out such a provocative act as they did then that is something that will have an (at the very least) upsetting impact on any muslims who may have witnessed it

so who is the target, organised islam (almost an oxymoron in itself) or the local muslim community of hackney

i very much doubt allah gave a shit

allaha does not exist you stupid cunt.

Aas for all muslims being upset about should they have watched it, how can you predict how people will react? You speak only for yourself and you speak crap.

 

[smokedout]

as for all muslims being upset about should they have watched it, how can you predict how people will react?

well given that even making an effigy of mohammed is seen as one of the highest blasphemies by most muslims (hence the row about the cartoons) then i reckon that burning an effigy of mohammed is pretty likely to cause offence wouldnt you

surely that was the point

or was there a point

 

[smokedout]

allaha does not exist you stupid cunt.

precisely my point, so therefore the target was working class hackney muslims

 

[Luther Blissett]

clear enough for you or would you like it lit up?

we can see it clearly:

darren and paul suck the cock of the AWL

 

[ViolentPanda]

allaha does not exist you stupid cunt.

He doesn't have to exist as an entity. As long as he exists as an idea.

And if you look at the situation on the level of ideas, then just burning effigies of religious icons is pretty much on a par with the patheticness of adherents of Islam torching copies of "The Satanic Verses", in that you're doing it because something about the "thing" represented by what you're burning offends you.

 

[ViolentPanda]

we can see it clearly:

darren and paul suck the cock of the AWL

The AWL?

They seem to have spent years traversing the ground from hard-left to a kind of de Benoistic "ideal state" where they're neither properly left or right, but rather just odd.

As for the cock-sucking, do the lads swallow?

 

[darren redparty]

we can see it clearly:

darren and paul suck the cock of the AWL

when you ever grow a pair say that to my face

 

[scumbalina]

I would guess that c/w would say that even though they propagate filth they are not filth. But normally someone who does filthy things is a bastard, AND c/w would say that not all religous pratice can be excused. So hopefully you can see that when c/w start accusing muslims of doing filthy things they must be aware of when this extends to muslims being flith. I guess not, and they just let the feeling take them. Like I say, I don't really care, its just an opinion.

You're problem seems to be more with what people have said on this thread, rather than with Class War, so I don't get why you're holding CW responsible.

 

[Luther Blissett]

when you ever grow a pair say that to my face

which of your two faces should that be said to?

 

[TopCat]

I thought the recent crease in your head caused by your big mouth might have disuaded you from such comemnts. At this rate you will end up with parkinsons.

 

[ViolentPanda]

when you ever grow a pair say that to my face

Why?

Would you want to borrow them?