class war and religion

[Luther Blissett]

The socialists, anarchists and so on are oppressing the Islamists, right?

Explain your terminology, JHE.
Where did you get the word 'Islamist' from?
What does it mean?
Who is an 'Islamist'?

Islamist as in Judaist?
Islamism as in Judaism?
Anti-Islamist as in Anti-Judaist?
Religious anti-Islamism as an equivalent to religious anti-Judaism?
Antisemitism as in anti-Semitism?

Both Islam and Judaism have a semitic language central to religion with many words in common.

I look forward to your considered reply.

 

[TopCat]

The Fabian and Wassim double act of fuckwittery continues. What a pair of tossers.

 

[The Black Hand]

in short class war crow about how they hosted a community bonfire when hackney council didnt

it smacks of middle class, teen angst, look im so clever i burnt jesus on a bonfire ... arent i shocking

well done, a completely divisive, elitist farce

working class politics is more complex than this folks, sorry to say

You know I appreciate people enjoyed the night out and I like class warriors getting together - but this event is 'subpolitical politics' at the moment. That is to say it could develop into something political years down the line. But now in fact it functions instead of politics. London CW have not done any political action except a very small and inneffective picket in years and years.

But, sad to say, it was me who raised the idea of having a political bonfire down Lincolns Inn fields, but my idea was based upon having it in a confrontational location. Since then the apparatchick and dark force who runs London CW have decided to subvert a political idea and turn it into something else

 

[TopCat]

You know I appreciate people enjoyed the night out and I like class warriors getting together - but this event is 'subpolitical politics' at the moment. That is to say it could develop into something political years down the line. But now in fact it functions instead of politics.

But, sad to say, it was me who raised the idea of having a political bonfire down Lincolns Inn fields, but my idea was based upon having it in a confrontational location. Since then the apparatchick and dark force who runs London CW have decided to subvert a poilitical idea and turn it into something else

Just because they kicked you out Attica is no reason to be bitter and rude.

 

[The Black Hand]

Just because they kicked you out Attica is no reason to be bitter and rude.

Actually it is a continuation of the politics I had when I was inside CW...

 

[scumbalina]

What the fuck's the problem? Anyone with half a brain can see the point being made, they weren't burning an effigy of a 'muslim' or 'christian', and I can't see how anyone could see it as an attack on anyones beliefs as an individual, they were burning symbols of organized religion, it was clearly a toungue in cheek bit of fun. FFS, it was a bonfire night party, not the fucking revolution or a particularly important political event, just a bit of a laugh and filling the hole that was left when the local council didn't put on an event. It'd be a bit shit if we couldn't poke fun at religion, which is the cause of most of the world ills, because of fear of offending people. They shouldn't believe in fucking fairy stories if they don't wanna be laughed at.

 

[The Black Hand]

What the fuck's the problem? Anyone with half a brain can see the point being made, they weren't burning an effigy of a 'muslim' or 'christian', and I can't see how anyone could see it as an attack on anyones beliefs as an individual, they were burning symbols of organized religion, it was clearly a toungue in cheek bit of fun. FFS, it was a bonfire night party, not the fucking revolution or a particularly important political event, just a bit of a laugh and filling the hole that was left when the local council didn't put on an event. It'd be a bit shit if we couldn't poke fun at religion, which is the cause of most of the world ills, because of fear of offending people. They shouldn't believe in fucking fairy stories if they don't wanna be laughed at.

Here's me thinking it was capitalism....

 

[smokedout]

well if class war are happy to put on a community event that people would feel unable to take their children good luck to 'em

but they cant expect much support from the local working class (and im betting that aside from the usual suspects their were very few if any local working class people there, still its only their park

any kids persent? it was a firework show after all, kind of a family thing

ffs im on your side and i think its a shitty pathetic thing to do, people who ive mentioned this to who arent anarchists cant believe it and are pretty appalled, even those who arent religious

oh and btw im not wassam, ive never met fabian, although i suspect i know who he is on here

in fact id never even heard of him until i was accused of being him

does it shock you so much that someone can disagree with what youre doing without having a personal agenda towards class war

and if you dont believe me ask around, plenty of people on these boards know me personally

 

[Paul Marsh]

You know I appreciate people enjoyed the night out and I like class warriors getting together - but this event is 'subpolitical politics' at the moment. That is to say it could develop into something political years down the line. But now in fact it functions instead of politics. London CW have not done any political action except a very small and inneffective picket in years and years.

But, sad to say, it was me who raised the idea of having a political bonfire down Lincolns Inn fields, but my idea was based upon having it in a confrontational location. Since then the apparatchick and dark force who runs London CW have decided to subvert a political idea and turn it into something else

This posts demonstrates the political chasm between you and the membership of Class War.

You would take London Class War out of the community where it is based, where it has some recognition and support, and instead take it to an area with no working class residents, to try and conduct a "confrontational stunt" that would in fact be comfortably policed out of existance.

Brilliant!

 

[pk]

It's the only event I can recall class war ever organising on it's own, so maybe they should be applauded for achieving something, even if it was utterly pointless.

A bit like pottery classes in a special school.

You're not going to see anything but shapeless lumps of clay, but it's the effort that counts.

 

[TopCat]

It's the only event I can recall class war ever organising on it's own, so maybe they should be applauded for achieving something, even if it was utterly pointless.

A bit like pottery classes in a special school.

You're not going to see anything but shapeless lumps of clay, but it's the effort that counts.

Patronising wanker.

Go off and moan about people dealing drugs that you don't take.

 

[pk]

Patronising wanker.

Go off and moan about people dealing drugs that you don't take.

Patronising in the same way that class war patronise people with a religious belief?

 

[TopCat]

Patronising in the same way that class war patronise people with a religious belief?

They don't patronise but attack religious belief and organisation. Rightly so in my opinion.

 

[zoltan]

"ill never abandon my principles, but im not sure how much id want to work with people who carry out such puerile stunts in the future"

Youve got it .

Its a stunt. A headline grabbing one off performance to get a reaction.You posted, you thought, Its worked.

Its a typical class war tactic- what did you expect when you went along?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are Class War "anarchist"?

Anarchic maybe.

I'm sure everyone had great fun on the 5th, but I'm surprised that a group with so obvious an animus against religious practice should have a "festival" whose centrepiece was the burning of effigies; an overtly religion-based practice. Just ask the Catholics.

And burning the effigies of two apostate Jews too. What's all that about? Are Class War the new Sanhedrin?
If they are, wouldn't it have been more appropriate to stone the effigies

 

[pk]

They don't patronise but attack religious belief and organisation.

By using incorrect historical accounts gleamed from websites approved by the BNP.

You know, the same ones that you yourself have been touting on the respect forums...

 

[TopCat]

By using incorrect historical accounts gleamed from websites approved by the BNP.

You know, the same ones that you yourself have been touting on the respect forums...

What are you blathering about now?

 

[pk]

http://www.respectforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=228&sid=b29e6c0a938bed223862b98ff888b479

 

[The Black Hand]

This posts demonstrates the political chasm between you and the membership of Class War.

You would take London Class War out of the community where it is based, where it has some recognition and support, and instead take it to an area with no working class residents, to try and conduct a "confrontational stunt" that would in fact be comfortably policed out of existance.

Brilliant!

You on the other black hand do no class struggle at all!! And that is the bigger failing...

As for your misplaced boast of 'community support' that is at such a level it is meaningless...

 

[joer90]

Attica that really is a shit post "it was my idea to have a bonfire" no it wasn't carn't even be botherd with this shite................

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I dunno, its a bit extreme to burn mohammed and Jesus in some ways, i'd try and stick to something strictly political - but then thats Class War's angle and the kind of thing they have always done. If they want to be the battering ram against political Islam, good luck and fair play. Rather them than me, but i'm happy to see anybody breaking these stupid boundaries around religion.

The criticisms of it not being a family event etc - many of these are totally valid, but what are their sources? Nutters who revel in mystifying issues and controversy.*


*fuck d'you spell this?

 

[rhys gethin]

With all the things the Class needs to do, a group called Class War spends the only time it's got increasing tension with and between religious groups! Let's attack the ruins of castles and overthrow bloody feudalism as well, while we're at it! You FOR feudalism, are you?, they asked. Well, no - but how often does it come up? Historical re-enactment week, is it? What a load of crap!

 

[The Black Hand]

Attica that really is a shit post "it was my idea to have a bonfire" no it wasn't carn't even be botherd with this shite................

Historically I did argue for a bonfire first in Lincolns Inn Fields on the net, 'before LCW came up with the idea of one in Hackney', on a website where some LCW will have read it. That is an historical fact. It maybe shit, but such is life, messy.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

like invading tescos or blocking a motorway for example

different argument although i see the similarities

but they got off, thats sooo over

Er!!

i should be doing something worthwhile....
if i'd been the cause of the wetherspoons riot that put loads of innoccent people through a year of court i'd be VERY wary of criticising other people's events!

The difference with invading a tesco or blocking a motorway, whatever i might think of this type of activity, is that its participants CHOSE to be there. Nobody asked several hundred people if they wanted a public order situation when they were having a quiet drink with their friends.

In my opinion, anyone behind the soundsytem being brought into the Wetherspoons is automatically disqualified from criticising others, sorry.

 

[kyser_soze]

This is quite an interesting thread for the non-aligned...I think Smokey's POV is valid in the context of the locality (unless of course Muslims are suddenly not part of the w/c), and personally find the whole thing for burning effigies, flags etc pretty purile.

BUT...I also agree with JHE and others, and think that because both effigies were burned it's kinda equal opps hate...maybe someone should have made an effigy of Abraham/Moses, Buddha and Nanak just to make sure no one was missed out in their chances of being elated/alienated by the event...

Good thread tho

 

[likesfish]

there is a middle ground between sucking up to religion and not actively seeking to offend those who are religious
why the fuck not they hate and loathe the godless so give them some hate back
I don't think people who belive in sky pixies should have any rights as personally think there idiots and need careing for

 

[The Black Hand]

Er!!

i should be doing something worthwhile....
if i'd been the cause of the wetherspoons riot that put loads of innoccent people through a year of court i'd be VERY wary of criticising other people's events!

The difference with invading a tesco or blocking a motorway, whatever i might think of this type of activity, is that its participants CHOSE to be there. Nobody asked several hundred people if they wanted a public order situation when they were having a quiet drink with their friends.

In my opinion, anyone behind the soundsytem being brought into the Wetherspoons is automatically disqualified from criticising others, sorry.

Tax - this doesn't talk about those motorists whose day was spoilt... I think what you have written is not consistent.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

No, i'm being specific. Its not that shoppers at a Tesco or motorists on a motorway that gets invaded in some stunt aren't inconvenienced, they are.

In this case i am specifically talking about the active participants: the people doing the stunt obviously wanted to be there. Not so in the wetherspoons.

To compare Class War's bonfire and thevoids Reclaim The Pub: it would be as if Class War had turned up at someone else's event, started a bonfire and burned effigies without asking.

 

[scumbalina]

What's the wetherspoons shenanigans got to do with Class War? (I know your point is "nothing" Tax, I was just confused as to where the point came from in the first place? )

 

[Luther Blissett]

BUT...I also agree with JHE and others, and think that because both effigies were burned it's kinda equal opps hate...maybe someone should have made an effigy of Abraham/Moses, Buddha and Nanak just to make sure no one was missed out in their chances of being elated/alienated by the event...

kyser - it's not 'kinda 'equal opps' because both those religious figures were Jewish apostates (political/religious rebels)

And burning the effigies of two apostate Jews too. What's all that about? Are Class War the new Sanhedrin? If they are, wouldn't it have been more appropriate to stone the effigies

With all the things the Class needs to do, a group called Class War spends the only time it's got increasing tension with and between religious groups! ... What a load of crap!

It's mighty puzzling.