Class System

[nino_savatte]

And your living in a former mining community has imbued you with this knowledge, has it?
Nothing to do with your pre-existing prejudices then?

It has. I lived here in the strike and saw how the unions bullied people into staying out even when it was clearr it was lost.
Scargill still had his big house to live in while the workers were loosing theirs.

Any decent student of history can find many examples of the right not only plotting, but having the wherewithal to do this during the 1960s, 70s and 80s. Oddly enough though, your ilk choose to extrapolate Scargill's demagoguery as proving that he was "bent on taking power in the country" and always ignore the massive amount of data that shows the right as having been FAR MORE likely (and equipped) to have done that sort of thing.

I'm a little drunk right now so I'll argue with you later.

The right wanted rid of the unions for years. Thatcher did the honours.

So come on, tell me WHY the unions needed smashing, and none of your whimsical musings about "commies" and myths about the unions being a vanguard for a socialist coup, give me some hard fact, some incidence of the secret state having unearthed proof of this conspiracy you say the unions wer engaging in.
Npot that I expect you to take up my challenge, because you know as well as I that you're talking absolute shite.


That's a start -I'll work on the rest later
http://www.socialist-labour-party.org.uk/artybio.htm

Don't be stupid, Thatcher was the tool that was used to do these things. The minds behind it were the same group of usual suspects from the establishment who'd chuntered on about smashing the unions for 20 yrs. Thatcher was merely stupid enough to listen to the far-right twats.

Thatcher beat them hands down. She didn't listen to the far right - she controlled them. The unions had taken power to the extreme and needed stopping.[/QUOTE]

Two words occured to me while I was reading your post: painted and corner.

 

[clmk]

The right wanted rid of the unions for years. Thatcher did the honours.

I saw how the unions bullied people into staying out even when it was clearr it was lost.

She didn't listen to the far right - she controlled them. The unions had taken power to the extreme and needed stopping.

Of course the right wanted rid of the unions, and thatcher is a right wing reacionary statist.....so?..........what on earth are you trying to say apart from the bleeding obvious?
The right also want to have child labour back, and no healtcare, benefits, any sort of decent public services and to cram the majority of the population into as cramped, squalor conditions as possible.......

I doubt the unions bullied people, encouraged, yes, but even if they did "bully" it's not going to be worse than losing your house, losing your job, having no decent public services or welfare to fall back on (the safety net, which the idle rich have tonnes of)

I doubt very much she controlled the right, she is on the right, she shares their interests, she has their interests at heart...
The unions needed stopping.....Fucking hell, so you're happy now that working conditions are so shit that people are being laid off, being put on temporary contracts, that wages have stagnated and been rolled back to such low levels people are in record levels of debt, are having to remortgage or sell out their houses and losing their downpayments, and are working so long their families and friends seem like strangers.....

The majority of the population has really suffered "an economic smashing" since thatcher came in, she even took away children's milk in schools......

 

[ViolentPanda]

It has. I lived here in the strike and saw how the unions bullied people into staying out even when it was clearr it was lost.
Scargill still had his big house to live in while the workers were loosing theirs.

Rigght, so Scargill having a "big house" and your anecdotes about bullying are so credible we can extrapolate that the same happened throughout England, Wales and Scotland, can we?

By the way, my great-grandad and his father both worked at Denaby and Cadeby main when they opened back at the turn of the 20th century. A couple of uncles were still in coal in the area in the 70s and 80s, and oddly enough they don't back up your story at all.
Not that I'm surprised.

I'm a little drunk right now so I'll argue with you later.

The right wanted rid of the unions for years. Thatcher did the honours.

The right have always wanted rid of any structure that puts a block on them running roughshod over the workers, that's why cunts like the CBI even oppose health and safety legislation.

That's a start -I'll work on the rest later
http://www.socialist-labour-party.org.uk/artybio.htm

Are you taking the piss?
What the fuck does posting a bit of Scargill's potted biography prove? Fuck all.

Must try harder, fred.

Thatcher beat them hands down. She didn't listen to the far right - she controlled them. The unions had taken power to the extreme and needed stopping.

If you believe that you're a gullible twat, and I've got a nice bridge I can sell you.
Thatcher was played by people like Nick Ridley, Alan Walters and (until he was wasted) Airey Neave, there were whole phalanxes of hard-right tories using Thatcher as their puppet, giving her "policy advice" that played to her prejudices, and laughing at her behind her back.

 

[Gmart]

No matter what, Thatcher did nothing to stop the Class System endemic in this society. Indeed the rich were given full rein to introduce the market and undercut the unions based on the principle that the country could not afford to keep paying for all the public industries, and that profits will trickle down to the poor.

Inevitably this was bollox, though the economy improved, the basic problem was and is that the education system does not do a good enough job at preparing children for the real world. A child born into this country will be separated from the rich at an early age, and his or her geographic location will define generally what his or her job is, NOT as would be ideal his or her talents.

It is our education system which imposes this division and one can always tell the haves from the havenots by whether they support or decry the education status quo or not.

Now we have crushed all community in the name of big business, and people are surprised at the problems we have.

It doesn't help that our system is hugely centralised towards London, even to the point of Local councillors and LEA's being marginal in their influence.

 

[tbaldwin]

It is our education system which imposes this division and one can always tell the haves from the havenots by whether they support or decry the education status quo or not.

I think thats really spot on...Those who defend the private and higher education systems when many kids leave school at 14 or 15 are just defending privellege and division......

The Left has a shameful record on Education.

 

[nino_savatte]

I think thats really spot on...Those who defend the private and higher education systems when many kids leave school at 14 or 15 are just defending privellege and division......

The Left has a shameful record on Education.

It's interesting how you lump in higher education with "private" education.

You've betrayed yourself again, balders.

And the right have a blemish free record on education - is that correct? Which is why HE & FE were marketised after the 1989 Educaton Reform Act. I take it you are familiar with that piece of legislation?

 

[tbaldwin]

It's interesting how you lump in higher education with "private" education.

You've betrayed yourself again, balders.

I am against an education system based on privelleges for some shit for others.......I dont know how you think that means i have betrayed myself??????You funny man,you!

 

[nino_savatte]

I am against an education system based on privelleges for some shit for others.......I dont know how you think that means i have betrayed myself??????You funny man,you!

You're full of shite and you've disappointed me; you haven't accused me of being "clever". You've lumped HE in with the private sector and haven't done anything to prop up your weak thesis. You've also not dealt with my point about the right and their attacks on the education sector. Have you nothing to say about the 1989 ERA? No, I thought not.

Have you been to university, balders? Or are you simply bitter because they wouldn't admit you?

 

[tbaldwin]

Nino where do you think H/E came from? Any idea?

Do you understand that Higher Education like Private Education is also a privellege?
Have you got any idea of what % of people worldwide go into H/E?

Have you been to University Nino? Is that why your views all seem so channelled and predictable? Or were you always stupid?

 

[audiotech]

Is this the world according to fred?

Yep.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino where do you think H/E came from? Any idea?

Do you understand that Higher Education like Private Education is also a privellege?
Have you got any idea of what % of people worldwide go into H/E?

You clearly do not understand the distinction between HE and the private education sector, so let me draw you a wee picture: the private sector operates purely for profit and receives all of its money from fee paying students; while the HE sector, which includes colleges of higher educaton and universities, receives funding from central government.

I used to teach in FE. How about you? Have you ever taught? No, I didn't think so.

 

[tbaldwin]

You clearly do not understand the distinction between HE and the private education sector, so let me draw you a wee picture: the private sector operates purely for profit and receives all of its money from fee paying students; while the HE sector, which includes colleges of higher educaton and universities, receives funding from central government.

I used to teach in FE. How about you? Have you ever taught? No, I didn't think so.

Nino you do have a slight problem there......Overgeneralisation and maybe dishonesty?

That you have been a teacher/tutor doesnt suprise me......You show a lot of the traits shown by many teachers your basically not too bright a bit lethargic and quite conservative.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino you do have a slight problem there......Overgeneralisation and maybe dishonesty?

That you have been a teacher/tutor doesnt suprise me......You show a lot of the traits shown by many teachers your basically not too bright a bit lethargic and quite conservative.

No, balders, it is you who has the problem and it is obvious that it a deeply rooted psychological one. I would suggest that you suffer from a deep seated inadequacy complex and the only way you can cope with it is to belittle and wind up other people.

I recommend you seek professional help.

As for your knobheaded trollling and wind up posts, there's nothing a good banning wouldn't solve.

 

[nino_savatte]

So balders, the difference between the HE sector and the private one...if you would be so kind.

 

[tbaldwin]

So balders, the difference between the HE sector and the private one...if you would be so kind.

The similarities.....
Both based on dividing people can be financially or on so called merit eg A levels for H/E....Assisted School places for private education....
Both at the heart of the Class system Oxford and Cambridge both started by private education.......

The differences.......Age....... erm...a few more working class people get creamed off by H/E.....


Both socially divisive.

 

[nino_savatte]

The similarities.....
Both based on dividing people can be financially or on so called merit eg A levels for H/E....Assisted School places for private education....
Both at the heart of the Class system Oxford and Cambridge both started by private education.......

The differences.......Age....... erm...a few more working class people get creamed off by H/E.....


Both socially divisive.

Tut tut tut, all you can do is drag in Oxbridge to support your weak thesis.

It's clear that you have no experience of the HE sector and are trying so desperately to be controversial. You also don't appear to understand what the HE sector does.

I'll ask you again: have you been to university? No, I didn't think so.

 

[tbaldwin]

Nino you really are an education.......What secret knowledge of H/E do you possess that someone like me doesnt know???????

Do you support the idea that some people should get 17 years of free education while others get only 9 or 10?

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino you really are an education.......What secret knowledge of H/E do you possess that someone like me doesnt know???????

Do you support the idea that some people should get 17 years of free education while others get only 9 or 10?

Balders, you really are playing the thick twat for the sake of it. Furthermore, your last paragraph smacks of ignorance...but then why should that surprise any of us?

If you don't know what HE is, I'm not telling you. There is no secret and you have an agenda.

 

[nino_savatte]

You never answered my question, balders.

I take it from your silence that you're actually one of those bitter bastards who thought that university was for the privileged.

Odd how you totally ignored the OU and the former polytechnics and I suppose any mention of those two would undermine your (LOL!!) thesis.

 

[tbaldwin]

You never answered my question, balders.

I went to Harrow and Oxford..

 

[nino_savatte]

I went to Harrow and Oxford..

I think you're lying.

 

[nino_savatte]

The OU and the former polytechnics happened under the Wilson government and if memory serves, the Wilson government was a Labour one. Furthermore, until the ERA of 1989, all students received a maintenance grant and had their fees paid for them.

You've avoided all these points, baldy - why?