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Clapham, Stockwell and Kennington news, rumour and general chat

Gramsci

Well-Known Member
I'm part of a local neighbourhood group and received the following email about the situation facing independent traders at Stockwell Station (I asked their permission to post it here as a way to raise awareness of what's happening):

"The flower and fruit stand at Stockwell station has been told they are a fire hazard and must close by the end of March. Lambeth have offered them a tiny space, about a quarter of what they now have, opposite Jack's (closes this weekend), outside a new Costa Coffee. The stall has been there for 15 years and is frequented by Joanna Lumley among many others.
The stallholders are starting a petition (I think paper not online) to try to persuade Lambeth to let them have enough space to be able to trade."
I cycle by there often. Petition signed.

So the Council using the "fire risk" argument to get rid of people.

Council have form on this. ( Carlton Mansions).

So after all these years its suddenly a fire risk? ffs.

Its the Council using H&S as way to get rid of people. Its not the way that H&S was supposed to be used.
 

Twattor

Well-Known Member
I cycle by there often. Petition signed.

So the Council using the "fire risk" argument to get rid of people.

Council have form on this. ( Carlton Mansions).

So after all these years its suddenly a fire risk? ffs.

Its the Council using H&S as way to get rid of people. Its not the way that H&S was supposed to be used.
Not quite the same. The council as landlord had a duty to the occupants of Carlton and I can understand why those involved in risk and facilities might have thrown their hands up in horror. That is something that can be explained. This is an example of the ignorant use of legislation as an excuse that the HSE get upset about - no building regulations infringements, and unlikeely to be any issues with fire and means of escape that couldn't be addressed with a method statement such as: "walk away from fire; try not to get run over".

Cynical commerial displacement.
 

Twattor

Well-Known Member
Just tried out the new South American restaurant by Clapham North (formerly Alba). They've only been open a week, so they're still really green and obviously trying to work things out.

Food was OK - not brilliant, but it will take them a few weeks to get into the swing of things. Didn't try the cocktails (of which there are many). There were a couple of interesting beers I was happy to have a go at though.

Best thing about the evening was the staff. Absolutely lovely; so full of enthusiasm and seemed genuinely happy to be there.

I was very sad to see Alba go, but I really hope this lot do OK.
 

Gramsci

Well-Known Member
Not quite the same. The council as landlord had a duty to the occupants of Carlton and I can understand why those involved in risk and facilities might have thrown their hands up in horror. That is something that can be explained. This is an example of the ignorant use of legislation as an excuse that the HSE get upset about - no building regulations infringements, and unlikeely to be any issues with fire and means of escape that couldn't be addressed with a method statement such as: "walk away from fire; try not to get run over".

Cynical commerial displacement.
  • Council were not our landlord ( or rather that is what they insisted at length in court) They had no duty to us. We were there at our own risk. Council played contradictory game with us. On one hand saying we were not there tenants and on the other saying they had "duty of care".
  • Unlike a tube station they only risk was to us the occupants. Carlton is a building on its own not adjacent to others. And we were quite happy there.
  • We came up with plan to deal with the risk.
  • Fire risk is a judgement call. As you say in your post.
  • In court the Council said, when the fire risk argument was not going there way, that they wanted us out for the Somerleyton road project. We could not find a legal argument to get out of that one. So that is what did us not the alleged fire Risk.
  • Legislation has changed over the years. So when once a few stalls outside a Tube Station was ok its likely that unbeknown to joe public that rules have been changed. We are living in a increasingly rule bound society. Carlton and the traders outside the station are all part of the same mentality. Get them out. Council desk jockeys with secure well paid jobs covering there own arses.
  • They were not throwing up there hands in horror. They were glad to have found a reason to get us out. Any meeting halfway was rejected by them.
  • So its not something that can be easily explained.
 
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Sian

New Member
A petition for a 20mph speed limit between Wandsworth and the Clapham Commons has been put forward by the Northcote ward councillors. Do you think this would be beneficial or not? Would a 20mph speed limit work in making the roads safer or do you think this wouldn't make much difference?
Thanks.
 

Crispy

The following psytrance is baṉned: All
A petition for a 20mph speed limit between Wandsworth and the Clapham Commons has been put forward by the Northcote ward councillors. Do you think this would be beneficial or not? Would a 20mph speed limit work in making the roads safer or do you think this wouldn't make much difference?
Thanks.
I have never seen a 20 limit being obeyed or enforced, so I think it will make exactly zero difference.
 

zenie

>^^<
A petition for a 20mph speed limit between Wandsworth and the Clapham Commons has been put forward by the Northcote ward councillors. Do you think this would be beneficial or not? Would a 20mph speed limit work in making the roads safer or do you think this wouldn't make much difference?
Thanks.
How many accidents are on that bit of the road? :hmm:

Just seen a sign by St Marks Church (big church by Oval tube) saying 'roadworks starts .../03/2014 for 38 weeks'

38 weeks!!!

fucking 'ell :(
 

Sian

New Member
How many accidents are on that bit of the road? :hmm:

Just seen a sign by St Marks Church (big church by Oval tube) saying 'roadworks starts .../03/2014 for 38 weeks'

38 weeks!!!

fucking 'ell :(
Still trying to find this out, I imagine it's high for a lower speed limit to be put in place.
 

Sian

New Member
In 2008 a 20mph scheme for Dover House Road/West Putney area received funding of £200,000 for the improvements. Would you say that's money well spent?
 

Crispy

The following psytrance is baṉned: All
In 2008 a 20mph scheme for Dover House Road/West Putney area received funding of £200,000 for the improvements. Would you say that's money well spent?
Until 20mph zones are enforced and obeyed, it's all money pissed up the wall as far as I care.
 

gdubz

Hashtaggin'
Sian - do you have a view on this (professional or otherwise)? I don't drive around the west Putney area too much, so can't judge.
 

Twattor

Well-Known Member
  • Council were not our landlord ( or rather that is what they insisted at length in court) They had no duty to us. We were there at our own risk. Council played contradictory game with us. On one hand saying we were not there tenants and on the other saying they had "duty of care".
  • Unlike a tube station they only risk was to us the occupants. Carlton is a building on its own not adjacent to others. And we were quite happy there.
  • We came up with plan to deal with the risk.
  • Fire risk is a judgement call. As you say in your post.
  • In court the Council said, when the fire risk argument was not going there way, that they wanted us out for the Somerleyton road project. We could not find a legal argument to get out of that one. So that is what did us not the alleged fire Risk.
  • Legislation has changed over the years. So when once a few stalls outside a Tube Station was ok its likely that unbeknown to joe public that rules have been changed. We are living in a increasingly rule bound society. Carlton and the traders outside the station are all part of the same mentality. Get them out. Council desk jockeys with secure well paid jobs covering there own arses.
  • They were not throwing up there hands in horror. They were glad to have found a reason to get us out. Any meeting halfway was rejected by them.
  • So its not something that can be easily explained.
More than happy to defer to you. Your knowledge of Carlton matters is clearly going to be infinitely better than mine.

My post was at best inelegant - no intent to detract from CM.

Still assert that there is no fire safety or otherwise justification.
 

Twattor

Well-Known Member
In 2008 a 20mph scheme for Dover House Road/West Putney area received funding of £200,000 for the improvements. Would you say that's money well spent?
Can't speak for Putney, but I've been driving round here for three years now and only noticed last week that there's a 20 mph limit through Camberwell. I have absolutely no idea when that began, or for how long i've been missing the signage.

note to self: pay more attention to street signage and less to irrational pedestrians.
 

Gramsci

Well-Known Member
A petition for a 20mph speed limit between Wandsworth and the Clapham Commons has been put forward by the Northcote ward councillors. Do you think this would be beneficial or not? Would a 20mph speed limit work in making the roads safer or do you think this wouldn't make much difference?
Thanks.
20mph would make roads safer.

Also I reckon make it better for cyclists.

Was cycling by Clapham common recently at evening rush hour and it was not a pleasant experience. Not used to the road layout and had lorry driver hurling abuse at me from the safety of his cab. He and the other traffic were hammering it to get home. I often find at junctions I am not used to motor traffic is unforgiving to any slight hesitation.
 

gaijingirl

Well-Known Member
I live on a 20mph road. No one drives down it at 20mph.. in fact people speed down here a lot, mainly because a bit further up on the same road, due to road markings, it's very slow. I don't understand why there aren't cameras - they'd make a killing!
 

friendofdorothy

Solidarity against neoliberalism!
How many accidents are on that bit of the road? :hmm:

Just seen a sign by St Marks Church (big church by Oval tube) saying 'roadworks starts .../03/2014 for 38 weeks'

38 weeks!!!

fucking 'ell :(
yes this. I'm very pissed off at this - will make my life difficult.
 

footballerslegs

Well-Known Member
I am a bit confused now.

Is it TFL who are trying to get rid of these small business?

As you said in previous post it was the Council.
I am a bit confused now.

Is it TFL who are trying to get rid of these small business?

As you said in previous post it was the Council.

It was my understanding it was the council too, from what I'd heard, but I spoke to Oliver at the coffee shop and it is TFL who have prematurely ended his lease and instructed the stalls outside to move. There's an article about it in today's SLP but I haven't read it yet. If I hear anymore I'll post it up.
 

grosun

wicket tunes
I live on a 20mph road. No one drives down it at 20mph.. in fact people speed down here a lot, mainly because a bit further up on the same road, due to road markings, it's very slow. I don't understand why there aren't cameras - they'd make a killing!
Yeah, this "self-enforcing" rubbish is pure fantasy. All my neighbourhood (round Royal Circus) is meant to be 20mph, but very few people respect it. I don't see why speed cameras couldn't be wheeled out occasionally. The number of fines would easily pay for the enforcement, & it would mean we might actually get people travelling at sensible/safe speeds. I hate having kids on the pavement & cars whizzing past at 30+mph.
 

Sian

New Member
20mph would make roads safer.

Also I reckon make it better for cyclists.

Was cycling by Clapham common recently at evening rush hour and it was not a pleasant experience. Not used to the road layout and had lorry driver hurling abuse at me from the safety of his cab. He and the other traffic were hammering it to get home. I often find at junctions I am not used to motor traffic is unforgiving to any slight hesitation.
Apparently there was news about turning the unused platforms into underground bike routes. Whether or not it will happen I have no idea but it sounds like a pretty good plan to me.
 

wjh

Bill
Yeah, this "self-enforcing" rubbish is pure fantasy. All my neighbourhood (round Royal Circus) is meant to be 20mph, but very few people respect it. I don't see why speed cameras couldn't be wheeled out occasionally. The number of fines would easily pay for the enforcement, & it would mean we might actually get people travelling at sensible/safe speeds. I hate having kids on the pavement & cars whizzing past at 30+mph.
Annoyingly the bit of Royal Circus that could really do with a 20mph limit and enforcement by traffic calming measures didn't get any. It can be quite hairy cycling around from Broxholm road to the top of York Hill with over-eager drivers trying to edge around you.

Additionally it's a regular thing for drivers at the top of Lansdowne Hill to turn right into one-way traffic, despite the big arrows painted on the road and multiple one-way signs. It makes me wonder if these people are paying any attention to the road.

Lets hope the Lambeth-wide 20mph limit is introduced soon.
 

gdubz

Hashtaggin'
Montessori nursery opening in place of Portuguese doctor on landor road. A far cry from the greenleaf - GENTRIFIERS!
 

Twattor

Well-Known Member
Not really Stockwell, I know, but I see the hoarding has gone up around Keybridge House on South Lambeth Road, the strangely beautiful brutalist/high tech styled BT building. I'm quite sad about this - I've always been quite fond of it as some sort of bastard offspring of the southbank centre and the stock exchange building.

There is an outline planning permission from 2013 for 5 blocks including a 22 storey and a 36 storey tower, 415 units in total. You'll be pleased to hear that there will be some affordable housing provided on site:19 of the 415 units so about 4.5% (10nr affordable rent, 9nr shared ownership).
 

Up the junction

Banned
Banned
I live on a 20mph road. No one drives down it at 20mph.. in fact people speed down here a lot, mainly because a bit further up on the same road, due to road markings, it's very slow. I don't understand why there aren't cameras - they'd make a killing!
Out of interest,I just googled it and it turns out police policy is to not .. police ... 20mph zones:
a senior police officer told the All Party Parliamentary Cycling Group (APPCG) that forces around the country are not enforcing 20mph limits.

MPs were reportedly left astonished when Mark Milsom, assistant chief constable with West Yorkshire Police, disclosed that police had decided against enforcing the lower speed limit in residential areas.
The current idea is they are 'self-policing' in that people choose to comply, or not. fwiw, this link is two years old but there's no sign things have changed:

http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/2709.html
 
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