clapham junction

[Reno]

I'm not looking for a whitewash just not the unrelenting negativity that this programme showed.

It was a programme about homophobia and gay bashing, it wasn't supposed to be a walk clouds. Some of the gay characters were shits, others like the Rupert Graves character or the boy were not.

Like dolly I also think its main flaw was that it was too short. It could have delved into more depth about the characters.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

It was a programme about homophobia and gay bashing, it wasn't supposed to be a walk clouds. Some of the gay charatces were shits, others like the Rupert Graves character or the boy were not.

Like dolly I also think its main flaw was that it was too short. It could have delved into more depth about the characters.

I also agree that the programme was too short. I'd prefer to have seen more context to the charachters which the one off episode couldn't do.

However, I must take issue with you regarding your previous posts. Yes its good to see warts and all depictions but this was all fucking wart and not much else.

The homophobia and gay bashing line could have scripted much better and I'd prefer to have left out the underage sex line as it distracted from the rest of the programme partially because it wasn't relevant to the homophobia / gay bashing storyline.

There were far better ways to show the young mans parents having to deal with their sons sexuality.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I so much looked forward to this but was very disappointed both in the writing, the production and the general worldview.

 

[dolly's gal]

I so much looked forward to this but was very disappointed both in the writing, the production and the general worldview.

how would you rather it had gone KBJ? i am genuinely interested

 

[Reno]

The homophobia and gay bashing line could have scripted much better and I'd prefer to have left out the underage sex line as it distracted from the rest of the programme partially because it wasn't relevant to the homophobia / gay bashing storyline.

There were far better ways to show the young mans parents having to deal with their sons sexuality.

I thought the storyline between to boy and the man across the street was the best thing about the programe, because it raised some important questions about how our tabloid led society makes little distinction between a two year old being raped and a teenager having consentual sex with an adult. I thought it was very daring, considering the current climate of hysteria about anything to do with paedophilia. The whole thing tied in perfectly with the overall theme as the man's home had been firebombed by a vigilante mob.

I don't think I ever want to see another film about a teenager coming out to his parents as every LGBT film festival is swamped with that kind of thing. What this film did was a lot more transgressive and interesting.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

how would you rather it had gone KBJ? i am genuinely interested

More rounded charachters, more acknowlegement of polyamory in the gay community, not having one of the charachters play up to the stereotypes of gay = nonce, longer running time, a mixture of negative and positive characters, some politics, more context for the characters to inhabit, in short a total re write.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I thought the storyline between to boy and the man across the street was the best thing about the programe, because it raised some important questions about how our tabloid led society makes little distinction between a two year old being raped and a teenager having consentual sex with an adult. I thought it was very daring, considering the current climate of hysteria about anything to do with paedophilia. The whole thing tied in perfectly with the overall theme as the man's home had been firebombed by the local mob.

I don't think I ever want to see another film about a teenager coming to his parents as every LGTB film festival is swamped with that kind of thing. What this film did was a lot more transgressive and interesting.

Disagree I think that the film could have been transgressive and interesting without causing half the audience to shut down. I thought the underage sex line was thought provoking but wrong in the context of the films message about homophobia.

 

[dolly's gal]

I thought the storyline between to boy and the man across the street was the best thing about the programe, because it raised some important questions about how our tabloid led society makes little distinction between a two year old being raped and a teenager having consentual sex with an adult. I thought it was very daring, considering the current climate of hysteria about anything to do with paedophilia. The whole thing tied in perfectly with the overall theme as the man's home had been firebombed by a vigilante mob.

YES YES YES! this is exactly what i wanted to say in my earlier post but failed spectacularly to do

 

[Reno]

Disagree I think that the film could have been transgressive and interesting without causing half the audience to shut down. I thought the underage sex line was thought provoking but wrong in the context of the films message about homophobia.

I'd prefer to see something ambitious and challenging to something compromised by a need to appease the bigots. I didn't look at the programme as how it represents homosexuals to a heterosexual audience. I want programmes to speak to me as a gay man, programmes that challenge and which move on the debate. I'm fed up with programmes whose primary purpose is to explain us to them, neutering gay men in the process.

There is plenty of mainstream stuff like Will and Grace out there. Programmes that don't frighten the horses and that reassure the straights that gay men are a girls best friend and that like them we are looking for Mr Right and that we have little but shopping and Cher on their minds, etc, etc. I'm not even saying that's bad, it's just that we can now have a variety of represetations of gay men that includes those some people might find unacceptable.

 

[heartof gold]

'Noncy?' This wasn't peaodophilia though, was it? I thought this was one of the best strands - there is so much hysteria about "underage" sexuality today. This tackled the gay = nonce idea straight on. The fact is that adolescent sexuality doesn't conform to artificial legal regulations of what is acceptable. Situations where 'underage' men have sex with older guys, want it and initiate it do exist, and what's wrong with that?

ETA: The programme wasn't making apologies for gay life in London, it wasn't trying to present it in an acceptable light. It was saying - this is what goes on, so what?

The cottaging stuff was clearly presented as happening between older, closeted & repressed guys. Why do you think this 'sorded' stuff happens? And so what? This wasn't written to bring the fash, or any old bigot, on board. It was a big 'fuck you' to all of that. And all power to it.

eh no idea why it happens in public loos not the best place for sex is it and what about diseases. There are ways of getting that sort of thing without abusing the public lavs arent there?

 

[brianx]

eh no idea why it happens in public loos not the best place for sex is it and what about diseases. There are ways of getting that sort of thing without abusing the public lavs arent there?

Can someone please check that Mary Whitehouse's coffin's not empty.

 

[poster342002]

Mind you, a public toilet has got to be about the least erotically-conducive place I can think of. I can't think why anyone, gay or straight, would want to have sex in one.

 

[heartof gold]

im not mary whitehouse im saying its pretty horrible isnt it to parade your bum to a man in toilet and let him shag you without knowing anything about him. There are better places arent there! they close down loos like that and cause alot of distress to ppl living by them. How would you like your son to go in one and get a suprise or you when you were a child!

If you wanna shag a stranger dont use the public loos and i make no apologies for saying this. Im sure lots of people would agree maybe not some gay men but there you go. tough shit if you think im mary whitehouse.

 

[heartof gold]

Mind you, a public toilet has got to be about the least erotically-conducive place I can think of. I can't think why anyone, gay or straight, would want to have sex in one.

exactly arent they worth more just shows how bloody desperate for sex they are dosent it! anything goes!

 

[poster342002]

Errr... I'm sure it's all a bit more complex than that (and I can see how this practise would have come about during the era of criminalisation). I can't imagine why anybody would want to have sex in a toilet now, though.

 

[brianx]

im not mary whitehouse im saying its pretty horrible isnt it to parade your bum to a man in toilet and let him shag you without knowing anything about him. There are better places arent there! they close down loos like that and cause alot of distress to ppl living by them. How would you like your son to go in one and get a suprise or you when you were a child!

If you wanna shag a stranger dont use the public loos and i make no apologies for saying this. Im sure lots of people would agree maybe not some gay men but there you go. tough shit if you think im mary whitehouse.

As far as I'm aware I've never been in a public toilet where two men were having sex, probably because they have the sense and decency to close the door so that the police or other people didn't see them.
You are a Mary Whitehouse. Curtain twitching and moralising about other people when they're doing nothing that concerns you.

 

[Reno]

exactly arent they worth more just shows how bloody desperate for sex they are dosent it! anything goes!

I think you are doing well in proving the point of the film

 

[heartof gold]

As far as I'm aware I've never been in a public toilet where two men were having sex, probably because they have the sense and decency to close the door so that the police or other people didn't see them.
You are a Mary Whitehouse. Curtain twitching and moralising about other people when they're doing nothing that concerns you.

really well it upset alot of ppl in my town recently when they had to close some public toilets due to that going on. It was on front page of paper, even if you cant see them you might hear them also how do you know when someone is going to come in the toilet!
excuse the pun. Pretty awful when ppl are scared to go into their local toilet in the park cos there are ppl hanging around outside.

 

[electrogirl]

i thought it was really interesting, for me it just had too much going bloody on! Like at the end when the boy obviously had his violin smashed..it was a moving and bleak ending but we just sat there saying "oh yeah! forgot about him!".

It obviously needed to be a series if it wants to tackie that many plotlines..liKE others have said. Too many of the characters came across as charicatures.

However, as a social comment I thought it was clever. It made some good points about how homosexuality is meant to be seen as socially acceptable now (they mentioned Elton John and David Furnish for instance) when in actual fact it hasn't been wholly accepted by all means. How easy is it for a working class man to come out as gay? Or a premiership footballer?

I didn't like the Paul Nicholls thing, mainly because Paul Nicholls is a shit actor but also because ti was too complex to be explored in an hour and a bit. Also I almost think the subtle cringeworthy homophobia displayed by the middle class types was more interesting.."oh i love gay men! many of my friends are gay!" *cringe*

 

[Reno]

i thought it was really interesting, for me it just had too much going bloody on! Like at the end when the boy obviously had his violin smashed..it was a moving and bleak ending but we just sat there saying "oh yeah! forgot about him!".

It obviously needed to be a series if it wants to tackie that many plotlines..liKE others have said. Too many of the characters came across as charicatures.

However, as a social comment I thought it was clever. It made some good points about how homosexuality is meant to be seen as socially acceptable now (they mentioned Elton John and David Furnish for instance) when in actual fact it hasn't been wholly accepted by all means. How easy is it for a working class man to come out as gay? Or a premiership footballer?

I didn't like the Paul Nicholls thing, mainly because Paul Nicholls is a shit actor but also because ti was too complex to be explored in an hour and a bit. Also I almost think the subtle cringeworthy homophobia displayed by the middle class types was more interesting.."oh i love gay men! many of my friends are gay!" *cringe*

I agree with most of what you are saying, but I liked the framing story of the boy learning the violin not being explained any further. He might not even have been gay, but he ended up getting bullied and attacked because at school, learning the violin marked him out as being different. It made a point of many schools being homophobic enviroments because of the whole culture of having to conform to a culture of being 'hard' especially if you are a black kid.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I agree with most of what you are saying, but I liked the framing story of the boy learning the violin not being explained any further. He might not even have been gay, but he ended up getting bullied and attacked because at school, learning the violin marked him out as being different. It made a point of many schools being homophobic enviroments because of the whole culture of having to conform to a culture of being 'hard' especially if you are a black kid.

I agree with you here. I recall from school days people being tagged as 'poofs' because they were percieved as different.

I must take issue with your earlier comment about it not being a programme that panders to bigots. I'm not saying that the prog should have been Will and Grace that occupies its own niche and it should be challenging but the whole programme was unrelentlessly negative and the stereotypes portrayed were unsympathetic.

It could have been done a lot better. You could have made a programme for the gay community that would have been challenging and quite frankly could have been better written. As another poster said I also thought the middle class faux liberals were a good point and I would have liked this explored more with out the nonce storyline.

If it the programme was going to cover the thorny issue of underage sex why didn't they run a story line about what I've heard several accounts of which is 15year olds hooking up with older men then blackmailing them and if that don't deliver the goods shopping them and claiming the compo from the criminal injuries compensation board.

I'm always pleased to see realistic portrayals of LGBT relationships on the TV but this could have been written by a born again christian anti sex nutter such was the negtive portrayal of gay lives.

A most disappointing effort I'd give it 3.5 out of 10 and thats being generous.

 

[Reno]

If it the programme was going to cover the thorny issue of underage sex why didn't they run a story line about what I've heard several accounts of which is 15year olds hooking up with older men then blackmailing them and if that don't deliver the goods shopping them and claiming the compo from the criminal injuries compensation board. ..

That's what you wanted to see, but the writer was interested in exploring something that's more morally complex

A most disappointing effort I'd give it 3.5 out of 10 and thats being generous.

yes dear, we've heard you before, loud and clearly.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

That's what you wanted to see, but the writer was interested in exploring something that's more morally complex

I think that the alternative story line I outlined to cover this area would have allowed much more fleshed out dialogue and would have been more nuanced than this.

yes dear, we've heard you before, loud and clearly.